Anddenex

No. Depends on the government the poor are governed by. In the US, I believe the government does have a responsibility to the poor, especially to the poor. 1. Individual rights honored. 2. A form of assistance, welfare, should it be needed. This should be based upon principles of self-reliance. People who are receiving government aid, other than food needs, should be required to work for their wages. a. Work on a local farm that supplies food to stores. b. Highway clean up. c. Janitorial work at government office buildings. d. Work for constructions companies, the construction company doesn't pay them, who are working on government jobs. 3. Assistance is finding jobs, or as they already do, sending an email with jobs that fit their skills and expertise. Yes, all poor are created equal. Yes, yet, I wouldn't title this under a right or a privilege, but surely out of the mercy and compassion of others. Some SES's, I believe should be looked at with an increasing awareness, picking out the children who appear to be wanting to make a difference in their lives. These are children who through their personal merits are striving to do well in school. These children should receive an added awareness for college assistance, loans, by which they will pay off. For example, I am totally fine with the assistance Native Americans from reservations receive, who are performing well in school, and which allows them to truly attend better colleges. However, I would disagree with the idea just because they are Native American, means they receive scholarships, government scholarships, even though they did not perform well in school. To increase self-reliance. Self-reliance should be the measure of success. How many people actually receiving help for living expenses, i.e. rent, car payments, phone payments, etc.... Are these people being provided service opportunities by which they are working for what they receive? They have a 9-2pm job, and then required a similar contract of seeking out unemployment. They could easily have an interview, or application which specifies their skills and talents, and possibly provided jobs, service jobs, which will help them increase the skill. Example, a person who shows a skill in web design, might be given a service job at a local government building in their web design department. They are then taught, through personal experience, how to increase their design skills. As with Backroads, these are solely my thoughts.

This is a very interesting experience. Well, first off, at least you ended up having the strength to overcome and not do something that would have resulted in some form of disciplinary action. As we draw closer to the spirit, certain sins begin to way heavier on our souls. At first you may thought personal repentance was sufficient, but as we grow spiritual some sins may need the Priesthood. I am unsure why you think it will end your marriage. Nothing actually happened, although the intent was there. I would hope that your wife actually focuses on the idea that you didn't actually loose yourself, but regained composure and recognized your fault. I don't see any formal disciplinary action needed, nor any informal disciplinary action required, however this will be solely up to your Bishop. I am assuming your Bishop will look at three factors: 1. Time span from when the incident actually occurred 2. Discerning truly your repentant heart 3. Nothing actually happened, despite initial intent. I would agree with another poster who mentioned if your heart is feeling you need to speak with your Bishop, do what is right and let the consequence follow.

Immediately, what comes to my mind are three blessings, one of which is solely received after judgement, and the other people receive after baptism: 1 D&C 14:7 - The great gift we receive from God is eternal life, for we know that few be here that actually find it. 2. The gift of the Holy Ghost, as a constant companion. This is peculiar to the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Lord has asked us to apply this gift, this blessing. 3. The Priesthood. We learn in scripture that this is also a blessing to the faithful, and depending on the will of God and the faithfulness of the user, this blessings provides different experiences. Some have moved mountains. Some have caused the sea to be still. Some have caused the bottom of pits to rise up. Prison walls to crumble, etc... How many man have had the opportunity to be able to lay their hands upon their new baby, and provide a name and a blessing before our Father in Heaven? Other blessings are for me personally, because I realize others have suffered the opposite of what I consider to be a blessing, and they may ask themselves, "Why wasn't I blessed as such?"

As pertaining to the term blissful, I may have misunderstood this previous post then. However, within the tree of life, some left the iron rod and felt their way to the Spacious Building. The spacious building for a time appears to be very blissful for these individuals. Yes, I don't believe you are one of these either. You are still clinging to the rod, otherwise in a previous post you wouldn't have mentioned how you listened to this past GC, hoping for an answer. Those who have entered into the spacious building will begin to mock and laugh at those who are still holding to the rod. Just incase, if this part was misunderstood, the cyclical pattern of the tree of life is our everyday progression towards truth. After we partake of the fruit, is all accomplished? No. Each week we actually partake of the fruit of the tree of life, the sacrament. A new week begins, we then again, enter our personal dark and dreary waste. As Lehi, we pray for mercy, we seek guidance, and we either will continue to hold fast, or cling, or let go of the rod. At the end of the week, we again partake of the fruit of the tree of life. We experience the joy of the atonement, and then the pattern continues: dark and dreary waste, mist of temptation - hold fast, cling to, or let go of the rod. This can be a cyclical pattern representing a life span, a one time partaking. It can represent a spiritual high, a knew found knowledge. Remember, the tree of life, the fruit is "eternal life" and remember Eternal life is to come to know God and Jesus Christ. It can even be likened to a daily striving. I like the daily striving best, because it is one day at a time that we overcome. Best Regards. :)

I will respond to your question about the tree of life a little later to explain my thoughts. At this moment, with given time, I was only making a play on words with your name, not technically saying it was in reference to how you are within the church. It was intended as playful banter.

Hello Brother, In this post, I am going to peruse through some of my thoughts and share them with you. Note, please understand this is not an attempt to change your heart or mind. Just some thoughts I have been having recently as I have pondered your posts (Note: I have no stewardship over you, thus my responses are my responses alone, and bare no spiritual inspiration). Here is my first line of defense and thinking: 1. Have I received a witness? 2. If so, how does this witness affect my decision daily, and especially when I am going through trials, I consider, to be tough. 3. What were the witnesses I actually received, and do they still stand today? 4. If so, then at some point I will understand the Lord's will (Openly noting, I do not understand why it appears the Lord's hand is withdrawn for extended periods of time, although I have shared some of my pensive thoughts), even if this means not until I die. 5. What matters most? This life and my trials, or the time I stand before God? If no God, or a Deist God, then nothing matters. Reverting myself back to thought 1, if I have received a witness, then the time I stand before God matters most. I have been recently thinking about some of your comments and the tree of life has been impressed upon my mind. 1. Blissful life of those who have left the church. I am reminded of the Spacious building with so many people laughing and appearing to be having so much more fun, than someone holding onto a stupid rod. Some of these people are those who have had a witness, and for some reason or another forsook the witness, for a short time of bliss. Yet, the Lord will allow only so much time before this bliss crumbles. 2. Other pressed forward, clinging, and other pressed forward, holding fast, and some just plainly let go. 3. I have always been impressed by Lehi who stood beckoning to his family, and others to come and partake. 4. I have been more impressed when I finally realized that the tree of life represents an cyclic pattern. We experience "dark and dreary waste, and temptation". We hold fast, or cling, or let go. By holding fast, we at some point partake again of the fruit (Sacrament). Those who cling, are able to hold tighter. Those who let go, are able to come and hold fast. And then we start over. I am not Lehi, I am your brother in Christ, and stand beckoning with others, "Do not remove your name from the records, nevertheless it is your choice." Peace Brother. P.S. By the way, I was a pretty good tool in the hands of the Lord on my mission in helping Syths return as Jedi's....just sayin. If not, I think I still have a good chance as beating you should our red and green light sabers ever cross paths. P.P.S. I think you and I read a different post from Vort. Vort and I don't see eye to eye a good number of times, however, I believe his post was a sincere attempt to try to understand you. I am grateful for his post, especially in mentioning the loss of a son. I believe, this was the intent of his comment, or at the heart of his comment.

Welcome.

Excellent question. I think the fight for justice does alleviate the outcome if a person remains in control over their emotions. Is vengeance the primary motivation or is justice the primary motivation? If vengeance is the primary motivation then I would with my whole heart disagree. If, justice is the primary reason for fighting, and a person doesn't loose who they are, then yes, I would say it means everything. Once, the sentence has been given, and a person has done all they can, they should seek no more and leave it alone. When the justice of man doesn't meat out and appropriate sentence, then the person must leave it up to God. I would say "Love your enemy" means everything. Yet, I don't believe the idea of seeking justice denies the ability to love your enemy. Could we say that it is through love that we seek justice? When I think about Love your enemy, I think about Ammon and his brethren who were mocked and made fun of by the Nephites. Yet they went among a people who thoroughly hated the Nephites, and were taught to murder them. I think of Zeniff when they first went to live in their original land. Zeniff saw good among the Lamanites, others did not. Zeniff wanted peace, others wanted death for them. Zeniff was in the right, but unfortunately the desire for past justice lead to the killing of brothers and fathers, and they having to relate the tale when they got back home. Yet, if a Lamanite were to come and murder a Nephite, they would be appropriate to seek justice, and not think, well, since God said love our enemy, let us let him go. Hopefully this clears up some of my thoughts. :)

In this scenario, I would say we move on, and allow the Lord to balance it as you have suggested.

Thank you for your thoughts. I think this sums up my thoughts by this question, "And if your ex did gain rights to not only him having visiting rights, but also where your son would have to stay with him on the weekends, how then would you have responded?" I will provide another story. An ex has visiting rights and that the children are to spend one month with the ex. The ex finds out that the boyfriend of the ex molested his children. Justice is being sought. The evidence mounted up against the boyfriend, but the ex didn't receive any recourse. The children are now back with the ex who allowed and full well knew what was happening to the children. How far do you go to "fight" for the justice of these children? No amount of forgiveness is going to protect these children from another boyfriend. I would agree that a person needs to forgive. I would also admit that justice needs to take place. This I believe will help those who have been hurt to heal also.

This is another great question. The connotation behind "fighting" I think is my hang up. Yes, we should "fight for justice", however if our fighting results in a loss of the spirit within ourselves, then I think this is where we have gone to far. The greatest of all attributes is charity, and I believe we can still fight for justice with charity, or better said, allow justice to be served, without a vengeful appetite. As pertaining to your last question, I think it really depends on the justice we are seeking, and at times, the disregard (or what others may call a disregard of their individual family needs) of personal family needs may be justified. If someone stole a TV, and the person is fighting for 10 years to life, but the person only receives 3 months in jail, and the individual whose TV was stolen is now going back to the judges, and courts, to get more from the perp, then yes, this has gone to far. I agree with you that God will balance out the justice and mercy in the end, however in this life when justice is not served to perps, I think it can be very hard for the survivor. You mentioned killing. I am thinking rape. A woman is raped, seeks justice, and doesn't find any, and the rapist is set free. This is where the need for justice becomes blurred. The individual sought the justice a person truly deserves but they are set free. Thus, the pain and emotional trauma doesn't have any reconciliation in this life. Some of these women continue to live in fear, they sometimes result in suicides, and other times these individuals overcome. What is the point at which 'fighting for justice" becomes detrimental to the person? I believe it is when the person appears to be no longer in control of their emotions. They become fixated, and loose the spirit. However, this is very easy for me to say since I have never been apart of this. I have to admit though, if a person assaulted one of my daughters, and justice in the courts wasn't served, hmm... I would hope that I would act in accordance with the gospel, but there would be a void knowing that justice wasn't served, as it should have been.

Very intriguing thought Seminary... My first thoughts regarding this post, I would suggest "yes", it really is this valuable. Both mercy and justice must play a role in our lives. Mercy cannot rob justice and justice cannot rob mercy. It is through justice and mercy, depending on the need, that our human soul does find solace. Unfortunately, people however have a tendency to be less sober minded than they should. As a result, at times, the desire for justice, is irrational. I am reminded of President Hinckley's talk about the woman who forgave the young man who threw a turkey (I think a turkey), through the window. As a result the woman faced severe injuries. However, she allowed justice to take its toll, however she did not demand the fullest extent our judicial system allowed, but the least amount. This was a perfect blend of justice and mercy. This is a great quote from Marvin J. Ashton you have shared: This is difficult however, because even when one is using reason, friendly persuasion, and accurate facts, others tend to get contentious anyways. The balance between contention and standing up for your feelings, or accurate facts, can be very blurry, and the end result still leads to contention from one side. The only way to truly avoid contention is to avoid any type of dialogue with some people.

Surely, your life has experienced some major hardships. The decision of allowing your twins to be adopted surely must have been emotionally draining, and still is. This is difficult even knowing that on one side of the coin, you are tormented and saddened, and yet on the other side of the coin, some couple who couldn't have children have been blessed, and feel so grateful for this, assuming your twins have already been adopted. I would disagree with your Bishop on the idea of keep coming back to church and things will get better. It is not coming to church that makes us feel better, it is coming unto Christ which makes us feel better. Coming to church is a byproduct of coming unto Christ, and at times, coming to Church alone doesn't make our lives any better, but if we strive to come unto Christ then our lives will be better. As pertaining to the desire of wanting a spiritual high, is a good desire, however, if we all waited for spiritual highs to do what is right, we all would probably not be very active. Our first thoughts in going to church should be our love for our Savior and our love for our Heavenly Father, and because we know it is right. Allow the knowledge you have, that it is right, to have more an impact of why we choose to come unto Christ, and why we go to church as a result of our faith in Christ. Since Jesus is our North Star, his life provides great examples of how he probably didn't feel any spiritual high when being whipped, spit upon, or even nailed to the cross. Yet, he suffered it, and accomplished it, because he knew what he was doing was right and God's will. I wish you the best.

This is a very good question. In connection with Eowyn (sorry Ewoyn, not sure why I saw Backroads) post please read Moses 3: 17, and pay attention to the part where The Lord says, "Though mayest choose for thyself." JAG provides an interesting thought I have not considered. We also have been taught that the two commandments in the garden actually provide Adam and Eve the ability to have moral agency. Without the opposition even within the garden, righteousness could not be brought to pass. We know that without opposition, without moral agency, there is no purpose to our existence. The choice given to Adam and Eve placed them in a quandary. They could have chosen to live forever, without sin, or they could choose to eat, and allow children to be able to become as God also, with the ability to know good from evil. They appear contradictory, yet I don't believe they were. The interesting thing, however, is ask yourself this question, "Would Adam have partaken of the fruit if the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth wasn't given?" If you read, "Adam fell that men might be and men are that they might have joy" the answer is very clear.

This is a very interesting question. My mission had the unfortunate experience of two missionaries who visited an ex-communicated member. The Bishop had forewarned the missionaries not to visit this man. They didn't listen to the counsel, and were never seen from again after they had made a visit to this excommunicated member. My question, why does God always get blamed for his children's actions? In this example, God did intervene, through the Bishop, but the missionaries didn't listen. I, honestly, wouldn't be surprised at all if God actually has warned everyone before something bad happens, especially if death occurs. However, due to faith, we ourselves must be in a position to listen to this still small voice, otherwise if we have become past feeling we won't recognize it. Also, God wants us to be responsible, can we truly be responsible, accountable for our actions if everything we try and do God intervenes? Can we really learn? In saying this, there are circumstances by which I really wish God would intervene, and I don't understand why he doesn't. When I read these questions, I usually think of the "thought police". If all of God's children had listened, instead of disobeying God's commandments, we would be living in a society called "Zion" as was established by Enoch.

Thank you for sharing some of your thoughts. The temple is a wonderful experience. As pertaining to your only negative pertaining to height, my mother would completely understand. She is 4'10 3/4". Don't forget the 3/4 of an inch. :)

I definitely understand the "domino effect" you have alluded to and would agree with the assessment. In my dialogues with atheist, and deists, this is a common thread that tends to be a major part of the debate. This domino affect mentioned is usually the byproduct of those who recognize the evil in this world, and wonder how a "loving God" would allow so much misery in life. Why would he stay his hand? No good parent would stay their hand like this. I think the idea, or paradigm shift with what you have faced is a very natural slide from where you stand. The God you believe in, doesn't seem to be the God you believe in, for many years it appears he is withdrawn. Does he really care? I, myself, would actually be a deist if not for the experiences I have received. I don't see, personally, an agnostic or atheist mentality as rational, it is absurd to me. I will speak only for myself in this next phrase of comments, seeing I don't really know your heart or mind. The trials and tribulations I have faced have really allowed me to see myself for who I truly am. I saw myself as a trusting person, a trusting faithful LDS member until on my knees the answer I was given, "Trust." I thought I knew what trust was until that answer came. I was given a little more data as to who I really was and where I was pretending. I remember one time an answer took three years for me to finally be in a position where my heart and mind was able to hear this still small voice. I recognize 3 years is almost three times your heart ache, however this seemed like an eternity, and now I look back and think "3 years, ha, not so long...I was such a stubborn child." (note, my wife still thinks I am a stubborn child at times, can you believe her??? ) My personal thoughts, I believe at times when God withdraws, or it appears as God has withdrawn is to allow me to see who I truly am, verses who I am trying to become like. As I mentioned, this last phrase I am only speaking for myself, not in any attempt to say this is how you are feeling.

I remember watching the video regarding the entrepreneur who is initiating this product. It seems very interesting, and for college students this could be a great, inexpensive, way for travel to and from school.

This is very interesting experiences, and I don't doubt your sincerity, however I hope you are being sincere. In recognition to your statement about Satan and his minions desiring you, I would like to bring your mind to 3 Nephi 18: 14 - 15, 18: It is true, Satan does desire to have you. He desires to have anybody who might be able to thwart his plans. This stands true for every member of the LDS Church. This also stands for non-members who are actively seeking truth. Your experiences are familiar to friends of mine. I would however caution you to insult any evil presence. We are warned in scripture not mock any unclean spirit, otherwise when we do we are told they have power over us. It isn't surprising the strength to overcome these spirits is stronger when you are choosing the right. When you are not choosing the right, they also will have power over you. I really wish I could share with you three experiences from my mission, however as an open forum, it is not appropriate for me to share them. I assure you though, if you live righteously, although these experiences may still happen, you will have power to overcome. Listen to Shortstuff's advice. Call quickly the Elders within your ward. Have a couple come over and say a sincere prayer. Then have these Elders who visit in the name of Jesus Christ to cast them out. Peace willl result, however I also warn you, if you should through your actions disobey, these spirits will return. They even return when you are living righteously, but you will have power over them as you exert faith in Jesus Christ, and live according to the commandments. They can exert force upon you, they can bring you to a depth of fear and scare, however, they cannot control you. You cannot blame them for any unrighteous act you choose to make. I wish you the best and may you be blessed to choose to live the commandments. This is your safe harbor.

I recognize what you are saying about having never withdrawn yourself from your children for a specific percentage of their lives. I would like to address to questions that are for your consideration. 1. How long did we live with God before this life? 2. Time is very insignificant to God, since He is eternal, when looking through His eyes, and the unspecified time pre mortal, mortal, and post mortal has He withdrawn from you even for 20% of your life time? You may already have thought of these questions yourselves. As pertaining to your last question, I would agree with you pertaining to your first statement, they haven't experienced it. However, as pertaining to your last statement, I would disagree. I know quite a few people who have suffered, are faithful, and others who have suffered greatly and are inactive.

My father is in a similar position as you, except that I don't believe he has thought about removing his name from the records of the church. He is also a convert. I would like to say, thank you for joining the church and having a greater influence on your children than imaginable. Without my parents, both who are converts, I would not know the joy I now enjoy, nor would I understand the joy, without the experience of sorrow, and the depth of sorrow I have faced. I often wonder if what I have experienced in life is so that I may understand my father more, and help him. When our first child was born, I worked a full-time job, and a part-time graveyard, while going to school full-time. Needless to say, we were busy. Upon graduating, I went into sales, and was still working the part-time graveyard. I thought, I was going to do really well when a job passed my way. However it didn't, and as a result, in order to provide for bills, and two kids, I worked a full-time job, and a full-time graveyard. This still didn't keep our bills, and my wife fortunately was able to babysit a kid, and we were barely able to keep above water. During this time, it wasn't uncommon for me to go without sleep for 48 hours, and then the next day receive 2 hours of sleep, and then go another 24 hours without sleep. This wasn't easy when a young man, across the street, no education, got into business with his Dad, and began making over 200K a year. It is hard not to be covetous in these situations. Overtime, I thought finally my financial stress would be over, but it wasn't. The next company I worked for, which got me out of working the full-time graveyard, went under after six months, and I was back working a full-time job, and a part-time graveyard, now to provide for 3 kids. Then I worked for the youngman I previously mentioned. It was very difficult time. However my next job, I thought was finally my Salvation (so to speak). I finally landed an excellent job. The company was having record profits. I could see myself finally in a position to provide quite nicely for my family of 4 kids now. I worked there six months, and they fired me. The wonderful excuses they came up with to let me go, were false, and it was insulting. These were supposed to be my brother's in Christ. They weren't. It was even more hurtful when the director tried to pretend he understood what I was feeling. I have come to thoroughly dislike empathetic pretenders. The worse thing, the two days before I was fired I received a spiritual impression, and was so excited to go to work. Two weeks before i was fired, my manager posted on facebook, "I won't be able to pay off my house in 5 years, so now it is 6 years." We barely missed our goal for sales. In order for this manager to keep up with his goal in paying off his house in six years, he needed to let one person go, fire them. I was that one person. This was very hard, very difficult and I surely felt alone. I share with you one answer I received during this when I asked God why? "Trust." Which is why I share that we don't know what God has in store for us, but we must continue forward, in faith, and one day, all will be known. As pertaining to your last comment, I think we would have more testimonies from people, if they would remain faithful, yet we do have many people who have suffered greatly and feel very alone, yet still trust without an answer. A dear friend of mine, had the most unfortunate experience of watching their 4 year old pass away. They tried for 7 years to have another child. The doctors told them nothing was wrong with either of them, but they could not get pregnant. They tried adopting. The first chance they had, the young women said they could have the baby. On the way to the hospital the mother of the young women, convinced her daughter not to give up the baby. This was hard for them when they were told yes in the morning, and when they arrive to pick up the baby, low and behold, they were told no. The amazing thing about this, is that they kept trying, and talk about a unique coincidence, the day they were able to adopt a baby, was on the same day there other son was baptized, nearly 7 years later. Be not afraid to drink the cup our Heavenly Father gives us, no matter how bitter it may taste. Peace brother, and hopefully one day you will receive what you have long waited for.

My goodness, I must be behind the times, I need to speak with my wife about who I can speak for if they aren't sealed. I wonder if she won't mind if I am sealed to Kathy Ireland along with her? EDIT: Ok, just sent her this text via skype: I will inform everyone regarding her response. EDIT2: Her response: EDIT3: Her next response,

This dichotomy is a very important part of your life, and this dichotomy is also a very important part of my life. I love the verse in scripture which speaks about opposition. Later on in other chapters opposition is mentioned again, and how important opposition is for us to make a choice. Our moral agency would be forfeit without opposition, the ability to be enticed by one extreme, in connection with another extreme (extreme may not be the best word). The intriguing aspect, and probably why you went to tears writing, is that you are correct! This is your dichotomy. This is your opposition. This is your choice. I fear I may appear to elementary in this next statement, however, I hope your heart will understand. As a father, I would assume, as I have, that there are times when you stepped away, and withdrew from your children so that they could grow and experience. Maybe sometimes this was done to see how a specific child would respond to the experience. At times this may have been done, to provide a teaching moment. Yet, after the experience, instead of the child listening to your teaching, your love, they repelled your loving advance. Did your withdrawal ever say to yourself, "I don't care for them"? Did your withdrawal appear to a child as though you did not love them? I am sorry this last part didn't type out, as easily as it went through my mind. I am stopping here.

President Monson actually answers this question in the biography which recently was published. He mentioned how he actually worked a full-time job while an Apostle. As the church has grown, the need for the Apostles to be everywhere has inhibited the ability for them to work full-time, or even part-time, and keep up with their duties. Great book!

On the contrary dear brother, you are still living, thus the test still continues. We all fall short of some test in this life or another, however the final test is the one we want to be aware of. As long as you are still living, the test is still in session. The God we believe in actually "suffers" these things to happen. He, himself, would never do any such thing, but for some reason He "suffers" other choices. As he suffered Joseph to be cast in a pit by those who were supposed to be his protectors. God suffered Joseph him to be sold as a slave, suffered him to be cast into prison. All of which led to the saving and the Lord keeping his promise to Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham. Here is another thought, it may apply it may not, but my heart seems to want to share it. One G.C. a while back a Sister spoke about how God loves everyone. She mentioned how she had all these wonderful things, and how this lady in South America did not, and asked the question, "Does God love us all?" Her conclusion yes. However, I think it is very easy for someone who has had "it all" to say God loves us all, in comparison to someone who had not had anything. I personally am more inspired by the women/men who has suffered greatly and then says, "God loves me as much as he loves them who have everything." I have realized though, God does love us all. If men/women had accepted God, none of us would suffer as much as some of us do. In Zion, no women would need to fear the abuse of men. In Zion, all would be equal, and there would be no rich and no poor. Anyways, the test is still is session for both of us, and may you and I be found spotless, despite our midterm test failures, at the last day.