Anddenex

Both Ram and slamjet provided the best answers. I don't see any reason to add any of my opinions.

Welcome.

Thank you, you are very kind. Yes, I didn't bring up Job because I don't have the faith of Job, and will not pretend I do either. To be honest, I really can't take credit for mentioning Joseph in Egypt. The Lord has counseled me in my P.B. that I should read carefully the life of Joseph, and what made him such a great man. Not only such a great man, but his life is in similitude of Jesus Christ, his life is a representation of our Savior and what he accomplished. You mentioned some difficulty with a member, and were open, and I will share a little bit more regarding my heart. A couple years ago I worked for a member in my ward. At work, one of my associates began to lie about me, consistently, and this fellow member, my boss, began to believe her lies. If it wasn't for another person in this company, as a Father of 4, I would have been fired. The meeting of this other person defending me took an hour and a half. Even then, it didn't stop this person from believing lies. After I quit working there this individual was called into the Bishopric of our ward. I don't pretend people can be one way, and then magically be another person in a ward calling. I was really concerned for myself and my family. I went to the Stake President with my concern, not to get him released, but to let my leaders know that this was going to be difficult. The Stake President told me, although I went for counsel and understanding that I was "Weak, evil, and that my life was amiss." This was the counsel I received from a leader who was supposed to be my Shepherd. Not sure why some leaders think they can say anything they want, because they are leaders. It took me back, here I was, 4 months before this serving as the EQP, I magnify my callings, I pay an honest tithe and fast offerings, read my scriptures, prayed daily, and 3 months prior to this I was also serving in the Temple. Either way, why did God allow a Shepherd to say such things? I mean if I was so weak, evil, and amiss doing everything I have been commanded to do (of course, acknowledging human weakness), was there any hope for me? Yet, the Lord suffered it, and He must behold something that I currently don't see at this moment, and 2 years later, I am now in the Bishopric. Either way brother, on a side note, there are 13 people who have taken notice and seem to be caring.

This is really hard to answer without knowing the "chain of incidents 8 to 9 years ago." I will proceed first with some points I wonder about myself in connection with what you have stated. First thoughts, God does know and does care about all of us, however it appears in life some people are more favored than others. I also understand, how we choose to face difficulty will interfere with our ability to recognize God's hand. Joseph in Egypt for example. Sold as a slave by those who should have been his protectors. As a slave God favored Joseph, where other slaves were not as favored. Yet, again, without doing anything wrong, was cast into prison by the lie of another. The question, why didn't God spare him? He spent a number of years in prison, but God still found favor with him with the prison captain or guard. Joseph eventually as you know, despite what one would call a series of unfortunate events actually lead the sons and daughters of Jacob to be saved. We now only see with natural eyes, what God himself sees with spiritual eyes. It amazes me that despite these unfortunate events Joseph still kept the spirit, chose to keep the spirit, and was able to interpret other peoples dreams. I would assume, Joseph prayed earnestly to be free from prison and slavery, but how many years passed before he was, and if he succumbed to discouragement, he would have been lost. I would assume, in your life, a specific and very important prayer, probably many prayers were not answered. As a result you feel God does not specifically care for you and does not answer your prayers. Second Thought, I would agree, I don't believe some of our Bishops and Stake Presidents, maybe even higher ups have actually been called by the spirit, but by the best intentions and knowledge of the leaders who extended the call. I believe, if a State President sat down with a potential Bishop and asked this question, "Are you watching pornography or been involved in child molestation?" And the potential Bishop answered, "Yes", that this person would NOT have been extended a Bishops call. Yet, experience has shown that pedophiles have been called as Bishops and some Stake Presidents have been called who are deeply into pornography. Now, the interesting thing is that when these people were called, supposedly by the spirit, which is God's will, that God knew full well and accepted this call and even authorized a pedophile to be Bishop. This however, would be incorrect, if a mortal men would not call a pedophile to a Bishop or Bishopric, then God certainly wouldn't also, yet it happens. They do their best in the position by which they are called. This doesn't however negate the reality that others are specifically called by the spirit and that personal revelation does occur. We at times, though, wish it occurred without much effort on our part, and at times we are dumb founded when a whole lot of effort is put into it, and we receive nothing. It is apparent, that you have suffered something you think unbearable, which has resulted in your current stance and belief. I am sorry to hear this. As pertaining to your last question, "Why shouldn't I have my name removed?", I have only this to offer: D&C 14: 7. As a brother in Christ, I hope that you overcome this discouragement and despondency, and as Alma once said, "May your soul be comforted in Christ." Christ, he who offered one of the most profound prayers "Father may this cup pass from me...." But it wasn't and he drank. Drink up brother, and continue to be faithful despite discouragement. It isn't easy.

I can understand how difficult this must be. The gospels focus is families and those, at this moment, who may be single for whatever reason has a tendency to weigh upon ones soul. My first thoughts, although we are social by nature, remember the reason why we go to church is not for a social gathering, but it is to worship Heavenly Father and through Jesus Christ. We go because we love God and our Savior, no matter how difficult it may be, or uncomfortable. My second thought is I agree with Backroads. Make sure you befriend people also, and let others know you are there. We had a couple who moved into our ward once who said we had a very unfriendly ward, and yet another couple who moved in at the same time, said this was one of the best wards they have attended. The one couple, never ventured to befriend anyone, just complained. The other couple befriended as many people as they could. My third thought, I was also very reserved, but over a period of time I forced myself to get to know people. Now, what used to make me sweat doesn't bother me much anymore. My forth thought, get lost in service and magnify callings. Step up to the Bishop and ask for a calling, no matter what you are called to, serve well and magnify. It helps out a lot, at least for me. Best of peace and hope.

No, there was more concern that the next of kin would seek revenge. This is a news article with regard to this experience. Springville homeowner shoots, kills intruder | Deseret News I would agree with your comment that people shouldn't expect the police to automatically assume they were justified. The police will make sure, in many cases, that they are safe, and then ask questions later. I don't blame them.

This is interesting, however maybe I am reading your statement incorrectly. I understand, from my friends experience, that the cops weren't unhappy, and the cops didn't cuff him and take him to jail. They assessed the situation there, the 911 call, and then they themselves, the police, said the action was justified and that this would be in their report. I am more inclined to believe, if the police feel the action was unjustified and could have been avoided, then the person will be cuffed and taken to jail. I definitely agree with you, people will come to their own conclusions about the situation and this can be more damaging then a justified or unjustified killing.

That was there whole point, if you believe but are unable to convince the judge and jury, you will be prosecuted with man slaughter. The emphasis from the cop was, "Whether or not you think you are justified by law, if you can't convince the judge, then you will be prosecuted." He provided two scenarios: 1st - Man comes into your home, and is standing over your daughter. 2nd - Man comes into your home drunk, stands there, but makes no attempt in your direction, even after you have told him to leave. He remains in his position. The first, they shared would be easily defended. The second, however, would be very difficult. How is someone to convince a jury and a judge regarding a drunk man/woman who never made any attempt to assault you? Now add a third scenario to the second. Drunk man enters, he is repeatedly asked to leave. When asked to leave gets irate and then takes to steps posturing for assault. This is more easily defended. The two steps in anger toward the homeowner could be easily seen as an attempt for violence. The officer, I feel, was trying to say, we know what the laws states, however the law isn't there for the freedom to end life, but to protect life, we the people via this law still value life.

I won't be able to do it anymore since we feel 5 children is a good number for us. However, I would always joke with my wife, "If you like the name and I don't, remember, I always have the last say." She at times would smile and walk away, other times she would give me a short jab to the stomach, if she was close enough, or she would jokingly say, "And remember I always have the freedom to leave you." HA

Anybody else love Rocky?

I can understand what you are saying, however, the information we received is dead on. In all defense shooting cases, the person must be able to justify their decision in front of a judge. A person's perception matters very little if you can't convince and judge and jury that a shooting was justified. Nothing here provided in this law negates anything the cop shared or what I shared, but actually confirms it. EDIT: Our officer, actually two officers strongly persuaded us to understand, that our perception means nothing in a court of law. If a person perceives bodily harm, where none was intended, and the person is unable to convince the judge or jury that bodily harm was attempted or in accordance with the law, the person will be punished with man slaughter. The officers actually provided us a case where a drunk man, a man of good standing in Utah, father of two kids, etc... walked into the wrong apartment door, actually if I remember correctly his door was either across the hall, or a couple doors down. This man was shot dead. The individual was prosecuted for man slaughter because he could not convince the jury or judge that this man who accidentally entered his home, entered with the attempt to hurt, harm, or to use any violence against the homeowner. Thus, they emphasized, if you can't convince the judge, then you will be charged with man slaughter.

Hehe, my wife was 19 and I 23 when we got married, I don't believe when kissing me she ever thought it was like kissing her father. My goodness the way she kissed me if she thought I was her father...., why didn't I runaway then?? This is one of those writing skills where people input in their writing just for shock value and to lead people incorrectly.

In Utah, my ward actually, if people from Utah remember the shooting fatality of a burglar in Springville, that was a person in my ward. We had ward and neighborhood meetings and invited police to visit us and teach us about rights, and when we are able to use deadly force. This question was asked, and in Utah, if you gun down a drunk that accidentally opened your door, you would be prosecuted for murder. In Utah, you don't have a right to just gun down anybody that enters your home. Your life must actually be in danger, in other words, you ask them to leave, they don't, and then that person charges you. If you ask them to leave, and they remain where they are...and then you shoot, you may have a hard time convincing the judge that your life was threatened.

This actually happened to my mother-in-law at her blessing. When he gave her a blessing, he changed her name, and gave her a different than the name on her birth certificate.

Yes, I personally believe, there are times where it is irresponsible for married couples to have children. The situation you describe seems an irresponsible time, however some men change after having children, and others do not.

You simply just tell her, "This isn't your child, it is mine and my husbands, whether his/her name is (fill the blank) will not be decided by you." I like the direct approach, it leaves no room for misunderstanding, however it may be wise to approach it with, "Mother, thank you for your thoughts, however (insert statement above). Then, I would add, if it is a boy, and the name is LeGrande, you will love him no matter what his name is, because he is your grandson. Once the boundaries are established, she may not like it, but typically this solves the issue...in a manner that she won't bring it up.

I assume windseeker that this picture will be the picture you share when dates are brought home??

As I have aged, I have a similar understanding as Annewandering. What is race, when we all stem from Adam and Eve? How do races evolve from the same parentage? Unless, we are not all from Adam and Eve, then there could be different races, so to speak. I would agree there are different skin tones, different genetic markers, no different than Jacob and Esau, how one brother was extremely hairy and the other not so much. I have come to find out through DNA testing from my father, that he is 92% European and 8% African American. I just think it is interesting that we call ourselves different races when our heritage is from Adam and Eve. I am more inclined to follow suit with Anne, it is just a different skin tone and body structure, nothing more, nothing less.

"Forgiveness and the teaching, "Men can change" Will someone please help convince my wife of this.

I would agree with the sentiment, however I feel this is a sub-theme from General Conference. Every GCs theme, at least to me, has been: "Come unto Christ and be perfected in Him." We must come out of Babylon to be perfected.

I personally feel it should mean to plunge into the basic, foundational tenets of our religion, however in answer to number one, I feel people to believe it means mysteries that have not yet been revealed, or may not be revealed. I feel we, as a collective church, have made "deep doctrine" to much a mystery. I remember when it finally dawned on me, that deep doctrine is actually basic truths with the gospel, which are learned line upon line, precept upon precept, but only few people actually study and listen to the spirit to reach it. Joseph Smith, taught deep doctrine to a world famished from apostacy, where in reality he simply taught basics truths of the gospel, which were given to him by faith.

As pertaining to my minds eye, God showed Abraham the intelligences that were organized...I would assume this means either all of God's children, or a portion (unspecified number, much like in a dream when a person sees a large group of people representing a larger number of people). Then the Lord makes a distinction, among these intelligences, many of these were the noble and great ones. I personally don't see the distinction of many within the noble and great ones. I personally believe Alma 13 should be read in connection with these verses also, which describes a choosing also, or one that according to the for knowledge of God were called. Verse 23, then describes that these intelligence, noble and great ones, were good. This emphasizes the possibility that intelligences varied in being valiant also. The Lord then points out Abraham as one of them. That he was a noble and great one, a good intelligence, differing from other intelligences. On my mission, with one of my companions a gentlemen approached one of the Elders in our ward. He approached saying, "I have not experienced your type of spirit often, it is different than the other Elders, it is noble and great." I thought this was very interesting, as well as in connection to the closeness the gentlemen was to the spirit. I witnessed while there 4 of 5 prophecies from this gentlemen come true. We know noble and great ones were leaders, however, a primary president could easily be a noble and great one. We often recognize this verse as only pertaining to leaders (Within the Church), yet, a noble and great one could have been also someone like George Washington. It would not surprise me if some of the noble and great ones are born within countries where the gospel cannot yet be preached, but with these noble and great ones, there duty is to prepare the people that the gospel can be preached and that God's promises can be fulfilled. These noble and great ones are those that were singled out by the Lord to be leaders, or influential people, however in our lives, our choices upon this earth matter now more than our choices to earn our first estate. These are my thoughts.

instead of 8 years, it is now 7 for my first missionary

Now, if we follow a strict interpretation from Genesis as provided by LM, then no they didn't have a belly button. However, many members believe we are an evolved primate, and if we are an evolved primate, then we all were born from a womb, even Adam and Eve, they just being the first primate after the image of God. I know if they have one, I am going to poke it when I see them, just for kicks. Maybe the will giggle too.

Hmm...besides fuse comment RMGuy, this is one of the most self-righteous statements I have read on LDS.net. In no way was Seminarysnoozer even implying she hasn't experienced good and faithful members and non-members alike. In no way was Seminarysnoozer mentioning this isn't a beautiful world Heavenly Father created for us. She simply pointed out the delusion fuse represented with factual scripture, instead of living with a naive frame of reference that you only see evil because you look for it. EDIT: Not trying to be rude RMGuy, I have appreciated many of your comments, however, I wonder if you have even reread your condescending concluding sentence toward Seminarysnoozer: