Cal

Nope--refering to you.

So, we are what we are. God knows it. So, what is the purpose of all this "life is a trial to see if we will be obedience". God already knows it. What a crock!

Let' see, would a BA in Biology and Chemistry, a masters in Educational Administration, and a Law degree (top 10% of my class) and a membership in the California Bar Association do the trick?

It is always obvious when someone has no rational response. They resort to insults.

And you KNOW it was the Holy Ghost because...........

You are so retro...and left out in the dark. YOu think if you don't know...nobody can know it. Peace--yeah, me and the rest of the scientific community. Show me an X-ray of your Heart-Brain. Oh that's right, it has to be revealed by God. Silly me. LOL...you are so ignorant of the most simplest kind of scientific study. The heart brain puts out electrical impulses and shows intelligence. Maybe you would be smarter if you listened to it....LOL This is actually prinited in a scientific study....you could get a reference to it through Prevention magazine who not only have their own scientists, but keep updated on all other scientific studies that have to do with the body and health.

Even church apologists admit that JS hunted for buried treasure and tried to get paid for doing it. The problem with tuning in to your "Spirit" to get information, is that everyone seems to land on a different frequency or channel. And they all seem to give a different version of the 'truth'. Very unreliable way to sort out fact from fiction.

Peace-- ---To get to heaven you must be baptized, sealed etc. ---Alvin goes to heaven anyway. Sounds like a contradiction to me.

You are so retro...and left out in the dark. YOu think if you don't know...nobody can know it. Peace--yeah, me and the rest of the scientific community. Show me an X-ray of your Heart-Brain. Oh that's right, it has to be revealed by God. Silly me.

Peace--you don't have to take my word for it. Read the court records of the time--JS was convicted on the charges of conning his neighbors in his treasure hunting scheme. As to the rest--it's all well documented. Just do a little research of your own.

Peace--so I guess mormon doctrine is a big mess of contradictions. No big surprise.

Who is this, Peace? 1) With a facination with rocks and minerals, he tried to con his neigbors into paying him to find hidden treasure, which he knew didn't exist, as he confessed such to his father in law. 2) Made up printing plates to make counterfit money, and organized a bank against state laws in order to hold the money. 3)As an adult he talked some of his best friends into letting him marry their teenage daughters. 4) Covered up his many polygamous affairs, and then burned down the press building when the owners threatened to write about it all in the their newspaper. 5) Claimed to be able to translate Egyptian characters, when no one else could. Later, when Egyptian was understood, it was discovered none of his character translations were accurate. 6) Sent missionaries away to England, and then married their wives when they were gone. SO--who is this person? Answer: Joseph Smith

Setheus--if all it takes to be saved is for God to know your heart (as per Alvin), then why all this ordinance stuff? He knows our hearts. Apparently, that is all that is required---according to JS.

The delivering of a book is the arm of flesh...therefore you are not only given the book, but Moroni's promise/test to know it came from God through this man. There is the arm of flesh that feeds you face....but the arm of flesh we are asked not to trust is the arm which states they know what you should do, without a confirmation from God.

Ray, YOu said" "“Cursed is he who puts his trust in the arm of flesh” is the thought that came to my mind when thinking on how to respond to this post." What exactly is this "arm of the flesh" you are talking about? I assume it is other people. If so, how did YOU find out about the BoM? Was not JS "people"? Even if you respond "NO, I'm trusting my own FEELINGS". I have news for you; you are still trusting "flesh"---it's the flesh that your own brain is made out of. You are still trusting that your own brain is telling you something about something REAL , and not actually deceiving you by coloring your rational mind with emotion. It's ALL flesh; like it or not.

That isn't what Church members at the time understood JS to say. They all acted and spoke as if the time were in THEIR time.

Repitition, IMHO, is not as big a problem as repetition of things that were mistranslations in the first place, AND quotations of scripture (Isaiah) that hadn't been written yet!

I've been ready since JS predicted he would return during "this generation", which I believe was about 100 years ago.

Peace--I'm glad you know so much about the afterlife. Too bad you don't know more about this one.

We agree!

Peace--exactly---treat this life like it DOES matter, contrary to what you have been saying in your other posts!

Of course Christians will simply keep pushing the date forward, as they have for 2000 years. So no problem, the faith will endure.

Quite an excellent posting---however, I wish I could agree that the evidence on the BoM is that evenly balanced. Please point me to anything that FARM has discovered that overcomes the fact that Moroni himself proclaimed to JS that the indian tribes of the frontier (midwest of that time) were Lamanite, and by implication, Hebreic. DNA proves otherwise. This isn't just one of many small issues. It is an issue that, if not dealt with directly deals a fatal blow to JS's credibility. Some issues don't have a lot of factuality to rest on, so one ends up talking about probabilities and likelihoods. But this one is pretty well solid. Yes, perhaps the Lamanites were only a small part of the native american population as some like FARMS and Sorenson like to claim and haven't been found yet. Even if they were, that doesn't overcome the fact that Moroni was supposed to have known who they were, wasn't he? Is Moroni allowed to be wrong? Prophets can be wrong. Can Angels? The FARMS claim that modern Hebrew DNA is not the same as that of ancient times is simply unsupported by population genetics studies. And it wouldn't matter anyway, because the DNA markers link the midwest na's to North East Asia and not at all to the middle east.

Naaa, if God created the universe, Einstein is indeed second. Problem is....lots of proof Einstein existed. Not so much for God. As for Laurel's argument...it sounds a lot like when the fish in the aguarium get together..."there must be a God, who else changes the water?"