Brother Dorsey

You're great, Desire! (Maybe I should take up teaching theology to high school students ) Here's the passage that will help you see why we believe the Holy Spirit is God: Acts 5:3, 5: Then Peter said, 'Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? Whaat made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God.' The Holy Spirit is a distinct person, and the Apostle Paul uses the terms 'Holy Spirit' and 'God' interchangeably. Why? When you lie to the Holy Spirit you are lying to God, because the Holy Spirit is God. Actually this passage shows me the exact oppisite....the Holy Spirit is acting FOR God...he is NOT God! He is the conduit in a sense between the Father and us...through him and Christ we can communicate with the Father...and when Ananias lied, he commited a sin and did not keep the commandments of God so therefore he lied to the Spirt and because the Spirit is one with God, he lied to God. If you only had the fulness of the Gospel if Jesus Christ the truth would be plain to you. Remember, God the Father cannot be in the presence of evil, sin etc. he cannot be in the presence of men or in this world....he has to have the Spirit here to act FOR him!

Try that again...this time say...."My churches interpratation of the Bible tels us:" You have to remember...you and your church have the Bible and it is inturped many ways by many denominations... As LDS we have the Bible, Book of Mormon, D &C and PoGP....we also have the restored Gospel...the fullness of the Gospel...not just triths mixed with the doctrines of man...we also have a living Prophet who receives direct revalation from the Lord to direct his church.... Don't get me wrong, the Bible is great so long as it was translated correctly... but why struggle trying to interpet things that have been lost and be at odds with other Christian denominations as to what is the truth....I'm just thankful the Lord has fulfilled his promise to us as Isiah prophesied to come forth in the latter days with a restored Gospel to teach us the whole truth....and he has. If you studied the LDS faith with an open mind and heart you would see the big picture....it's like a puzzle.....all the questions you have about the Gospel are answered, all make sense, none confusing...where you came from, why you are here and where you are going....it all makes sense, nothing contradicts itself as in other denominations, it feels right and the puzzle pieces fill in and all fit...all pieces of the truth are back in the restored Gospel....it is in the Bible itself...the true church is a restored church...and as far as I see there is only one restored church on this Earth today. Just remember one thing our God is NOT a God of confusion.....

After 3pm Tuesday......

I know it's mindboggling....it's not doctrine but it falls inline with the teachings and makes perfect sense....but yes our God has his God, but his God is not our God. His God is one who has progressed even further than he. Did you know our God even has a wife...our Mother in Heaven but we don't and will not ever know anything about her while on Earth because our Father in heaven protects her. Think about it, would you protect your wife from the evil that is in this world directed at her from her spiritual children?...absolutely! Dosen't any of this even just a little bit make sense to you?

I'll answer that Josh....in the Bible (I haven't time to look up the scripture) it states that we can all inheret what God has....and what does God have?....Godhood...pretty simple....the LDS faith or should I say, with the restores Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Fullness of the Gospel, we have been given instruction as to how to accomplish the task of being worthy to possibly receive this inheritance. We have been told through direct revelation from a prophet of God that "As we are, God once was and as God is, we may become". Think about it...would not this be God's inheritance? would not our Father in heaven want us to be able to have what he has? Does he really love us that much? Would Heaven be Heaven if we could not progress, grow and become as our Father? Dosen't this just make sense to you? As a mamber of Christs true church upon this Earth I know, not just believe that these things can and will come to pass. I'm getting the impression from your posts that you believe God the Father is only God, but the verses from the Alma, D&C 20 and John 1:1 shows that all 3 persons of the Godhead are one God. That's what I'm getting at. M. Morning Maureen...I'll answer that.....As LDS we believe there is one God...God the Father....however we also believe that Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit act on behalf of God the Father with all Gods power to do the Fathers will exactly. That is why we say there are three distinct personages in the Godhead.

chiKin....It is my sincere hope and prayer you find the peace you are searching for. The Lord gave us all the gift of agency to believe what we want and make the choices we want...but he gave us something even better...he gave us his son Jesus Christ to show us the way back to him..follow him...remember he Lives and he loves you!

so what you're saying is...Prophets don't need temple work? Josh B) I never said that... that was regarding attending church.. remember? Chances are prophets can get it done themselves while they are alive! Desire....JoshuaK is just trying to confuse you.....all Temple work that needs to be done that can't be done now will be done during the millenium...this includes work for the ancient Prophets. The church doesn't allow work to be perfomed for anyone born before the 16th century because it is not accurate. And to JoshuaK....regarding being sealed in the Temple...those that do not marry during their lifetime will marry during the millenium when all will be ressurected...and childern who died will be raised by their parents then too! Cool huh! What a loving God we have!

Well...for one thing its never mentioned that they preformed any temple work. If you mean...someone did it by proxy....#1 I doubt many desentents of Abraham are Mormon, #2 there is no way you could trace your ansestory back that far. JoshuaK....#1 There are a whole lot of Abraham's descendants who are Mormon....My descendants came from the tribe of Ephriam. I know it's hard to understand...Temple work was different before Christ came...it was for a different purpose, but after Christ came, Moasic law was abolished and not needed, however the new Temple orinances were needed so that those who never heard of or will hear of Jesus Christ can have the opportunity to accept those truths while in the Spirit world and be Baptised by Proxy and recieve the other ordinances by proxy. This includes everyone who lived before Christ, yes even acient Prophets. This is the love that God has for each and every one of us...to give everyone the chance. #2 No in this world it is impossible to trace ancestory back further than the 16th century without any accuracy. However, during the millineum all will be revealed and all Temple work will be done. PS: I traced my paternal ancestry back to 846....whether it's accurate I don't know...the church does not allow any temple work to be performed for anyone before the 16th century because it's not accurate. I hope that helps your understanding of Temple work

Why do think it is the ordinances that save? Do you not think that it really is Christ's atonement that saves us. Obedience to commandments is very limiting, because no one can become righteous through the commandments (the law), only through faith in Christ. Baptism is a saving ordinance...without it from one who has the authority you cannot enter the kingdom of God. Christ's atonement was so we can be forgiven for our sins...not that we will automaticlly be forgiven. He paid the price for our sins so we can be made clean before the Father...but Christ's atonement means nothing if we don't repent for our sins which means we will forsake doing them again...because without repentance there can be no forgiveness from the Father. When Christ said "I am the truth and the lfe" he was telling us to follow his example...ie; Baptism by immersion, recieveing the Holy Ghost, Praying to the Father through him, Loving eachother, forgiving eachother, going to the Temple, living the Commandments etc....in other words perfecting ourselves so we can be righteous. Christ came here to do 3 things for us....#1 to atone for the worlds sins, #2 to overcome death through the ressurection and #3 to be an example to us on how we should live. You say "you cannot become righteous by living the commandments without faith in Christ"...this is true. However you cannot be saved by just having faith in Christ...you must follow the commandments also..."Faith without works is dead" I know we both agree that the Atonement was a very special gift given all mankind...and Christ overcomeing death so we can all be ressurected and live again is another...for I know we will ALL be ressurected, everyone who has ever lived on this Earth...that's a given...that's where we were "Saved"...however to have eternal life, one where we progress to inheret all God has (Godhood) we must do the work the Lord has laid out before us...ie; Temple ordinances, serving one another, building up the kingdom of God on the Earth, etc.. I know I am saved through the grace of Christ but I also know I can have eternal life through following the commandments of my Father in heaven and doing his will and work while here on Earth. As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ I have been taught, through the fullness of the Gospel, that I can become as God has promised by being faithful to covanents made in the Temple, I can recieve his full inheritance. That is my salvation that I am working out...each must work out his/her own. He lives and he loves us and he wants us to return to him

Baptism for the dead (and other Temple oridinances for the dead) Makes perfect sense to me! I believe God is a fair and loving God...why would he condem his children to afterlife of suffering because they never had the opportunity to hear the Gospel and partake of it's saving ordinances! It all has to do with obedience and acceptance of the commandments regardless whether it makes sense to you or not...remember the blind man who went to Christ and Christ took some clay, spit on it and put it over the mans eyes and then told him to go wash in the Jordan river, to dunk himself 7 times...he didn't question...he did it and was healed...which dunk in the water healed him? None of them...it was his obedience and faith that healed him...the dunking was a test of that obedience and faith...as are the Temple ordinances....He loves us and his plan of salvation is for everyone...not just those who hear his word while alive in the world!

Willy Wonka's Factory

chiKin....ever wonder why we are called Saints? A Saint is someone who is trying to perfect themselves in the eyes of the Lord...one who is trying to be perfect, with the key word on trying....no one in the church is perfect, we all struggle with trying to change to be what the Lord wants...to some the struggle comes easy and others it seems unsurmountable....the bottom line is we are trying. Amid the struggle to perfect ourselves we will be amoungst other members who are also trying...are they perfect? No. Are you perfect? No. Will they make mistakes? Yes. Will you? Yes. Unfortunately there are those who will judge your appearance and past...they are struggling with thier own problem of perfection. Yes, they are wrong to do that, they are weak. But you need to stay strong and, yes, forgive them. Just remember one very important thing...this is the Lords church, the Lord is perfect but the ones who follow him are not...open your heart and forgive those who've hurt you as the Lord would. Absolutely...I agree! It's all about Faith, Repentance and forgiveness...and it's all between you and the Lord. I think you need to understand something...I will tell you my story. 3 years ago a General Authority was speaking at our Stake Conference, he was relating a story about when he was taking to President Hinkley and the Prophet made the comment "Wouldn't it be nice of all the Priesthood holders of the church were clean shaven?", The General Authority then said that if the Prophet of God thought it would be nice then we should think about honoring that. Well, you would not believe what happened....next Sunday every Priesthood holder in my ward shaved clean before church, including myself (I've had a mustache for 22 years) We didn't have a meeting to discuss this, we all felt prompted and did it on our own....Why whould we do that? Because we sustain President Hinkley as a Prophet of God. If he says members of the church should dress modestly, no more than one earring in the ears, no tattoos etc. then it should be done, without question, it should be done. There will be some who will refuse to do these things the Lord has asked and that is something that is between them and the Lord. Think about the Word of Wisdon....Did the People in 1835 know the dangers of tobbacco, alchol and coffee back then? No, but the Lord did! I agree, the Lord really doesn't care about your apperance, he loves us regardless....however, if he askes us to do something do we have the faith to listen to his direction even if we don't know why he's asking? If the norm in society is to have a tattoo, drink beer, smoke, wear revealing clothing, pierce our bodies and enjoy pornography...then the abnormal is to whorship a loving God who knows what's best for us...I for one will follow the Lord and I will forgive those hypocrits who murmur......my salvation depends on it. chiKins....but that's just it...following the directiuon the Lord sets for us does build faith and testimony because with obedience comes blessings and gifts to increase our faith. Oh, it so does matter in the big picture. The big picture is your salvation! The joy you will feel when you listen and live by the Lords commands with astound you....your testimony will increase ten fold. It sounds as though you are struggling with being asked to live buy the standards of the church, the standards the Lord has set for the Saints. Search your heart, you say you still believe what the missionaries taught you...do you still believe Joseph Smill saw God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ in the Grove? Do you still believe the Book of Mormon is real? Do you believe that Gordon B. Hinkley is a Prophet of God and recieves direct revelation from the Lord to direct his church upon the Earth? If you do, then forgive those other members who have wronged you, asked the Lord for guidence and live by the Lords standard. He lives and he loves you more than you could ever know. Good Luck!

If you can afford it, it is absolutely worth it...if you can't afford it take a trip to your local LDS family history center, they have ancestry.com on their PC's and you can use it for free!

Spiderjohn....from my experience chances are if he's not listed in the SS death index...he's still alive. Also, Ancestor.com, although not infalable is very very accurate so you can assume the name you found is accurate and not your brother. There are other sources you can try but they are in no way inexpensive...try using Google and put in the words "people search", I'm sure you'll get dozens of links to search engines that might find his name and location...good luck!

Well, I can't speak for anyone but myself but I converted because I found the truth, all my questions of where I came from, why I'm here and where I can go after this life have been answered...and it all makes sense and fits the puzzle. Also, Prisonchaplian, during my conversion I gained a testimony, not from what others have told me but from my own experiences...from the blessings I have received for keeping the commandments of God...many are close to being miraculous in my eyes. Once I was made manifest of the truthfullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ through the Book of Mormon and was baptised into the church I was given the gift of the Holy Ghost who is a constant companion....he bears witness of the truth to me and I just not only believe, but I actually know in my heart and mind that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the true restored church of the Lord. As far as coverting out of the Church, yes it does happen...Satan and his followers are trying their hardest to keep the fullness of the Gospel, the truth, away from Gods children....they twist thruths, confound scripture, and entice discention. Look at accepted morality today and compare it from 40 years ago....I'd say Satan has been successful....Look at some of the "Christian" churches 40 years ago and compare them today.....Most have changed to be more acceptable to societies norms as to attract members...."Yes our pastor is gay...but he's still a man of God", "Hey come join our church...we have a rock band", "Yes, you can come as you are...shorts, tanktops, flipflops, we don't care...modesty dosen't matter, we love you", "So what if those priests molested those boys...look at all the money they will get"! My point Prisonchaplian is that people generally want the truth, they want a way to escape the immoral and indecient world in which we live, so, in their search if they happen across the LDS church where decent morals are taught, true faith and virtuous living is promoted and love and service to our fellow man is practiced...many are converted because the Spirit touches them with the truth. That's my 14 cents...anyone else?

Okay, I guess I'll be the only one with an original poem..... The Dove Far off and away in a land called forever, there stands a rock immense as ever. A thousand miles wide and just as deep, this is a rock a thousand miles steep. And once a millennium a tiny dove takes flight, and to this huge rock this dove will alight. He sharpens his beak on this monster stone, and then soars away flying for home. He flies to this rock every one thousand years to sharpen his beak when a millennium nears. And when this rock thus has worn away, Just a second of eternity has past that day. So when we're sealed for forever my love, Just close your eyes and imagine the dove.

Isn't Truth, for the sake of truth, a worthy goal in and of itself? Besides, if you're right...why would I want to lose a level in heaven? Josh B) Oh for crying out loud Josh...please stop this charade! You are asking LDS members to defend their faith with evidence...you might as well ask us to prove there is a God, or prove that Jesus even lived! I could find numerous pieces of literature that wouold "prove" that point, just as you can find numerous pieces that would disprove it....It's our faith you are questioning...not our beliefs. Josh...if you really, really are a seeker of truth...then the answer is right there in your Bible in front of you...Just a Joseph Smith was searching for the truth and found it so can you...ASK God to give you truth, pray and ASK with faith...he will make it manifest to you....you will never find truth by questioning anothers faith...trust me Josh NO ONE can know the truth without sincere prayer. Either way please stop with your ridiculous line of questioning and go to the source for the truth....God!

(6) And how do you explain that the Book of Abraham does not read as Joseph Smith claimed it did? He never finished! Prehaps he never finished....but its not even close. Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions though... God bless! Josh Gee Josh....you were a little hard on the girl....maybe shouldn't ask questions that you believe you already have an answer for. You are digging for people to go to your website to read nothing but your opinion as well as that of your other brothers in anit-Mormondom. Why are you waisting so much time and energy with this misrepresentation of yourself and these ridiclous questions? Don't you get it? Don't you see...you will NEVER convert a member of the true church of Christ....they have tasted of the truth and CANNOT deny it....give it up and go do the Devils work with the Catholics....they might listen to you...but I doubt it! Oh and here's 6 questions for you...the self professed Christin with answers..... 1) How come Christians don't have any Temples? Christ worshipped in a Temple, He went there to teach often and he even refers to the Temple as a house of God....And you can read about Temples all through the Bible....so, why don't Christians have Temples? 2) If Christians believe the Bible to be the word of God, literally...then where are your Prophets...God always had prophets to lead and guide his people....why don't Christians have a Prophet? 3) Which one of the Christian churches should I go to to learn about Christ and His Gospel...there are so many? I have looked into some and they all teach something that I think is right but then they all have alot of differences...which one is the right Christian church...the one Jesus himself set up? 4) What's the difference between a Christian and a Baptist? Or a Lutheran? Or Pentacostal? Presbyterian? Methodist? Calvinist? Evangelical? 5) If a person never hears the word of God...(I'm taking those who have been sheltered away from the Bible or denied the Bible such as in China), or never knows of or is taught of Christ....what happens to that person when he dies? Does he go to hell? Don't the Christian believe you have to be Baptised or you go to hell? 6) And finally...what does "Saved" mean? I hear Christians say that all the time...even mass murderers on death row...does that me their sins are forgiven and they get to go to heaven with say an honest hardworking man who gave all he could to his fellow man?...do they reap the same reword?....cause if that's the case then I will go out and sin as much as I can (cause less face it, it's fun) and near the end of my life somewhere I'll get "Saved"! Please answer these questions to the best of your ability....I will be waiting for your reply....oh and please don't answer any of these questions with a question...your direct Christian answer will suffice...thanks! And one more thing...please quote Biblical scripture to support your answers

Here are 6 questions I asked JoshuaK a Christian who posts on these boards....if you are a Christian I would like you to answer these too....if you don't mind....thanks! 1) How come Christians don't have any Temples? Christ worshipped in a Temple, He went there to teach often and he even refers to the Temple as a house of God....And you can read about Temples all through the Bible....so, why don't Christians have Temples? 2) If Christians believe the Bible to be the word of God, literally...then where are your Prophets...God always had prophets to lead and guide his people....why don't Christians have a Prophet? 3) Which one of the Christian churches should I go to to learn about Christ and His Gospel...there are so many? I have looked into some and they all teach something that I think is right but then they all have alot of differences...which one is the right Christian church...the one Jesus himself set up? 4) What's the difference between a Christian and a Baptist? Or a Lutheran? Or Pentacostal? Presbyterian? Methodist? Calvinist? Evangelical? 5) If a person never hears the word of God...(I'm taking those who have been sheltered away from the Bible or denied the Bible such as in China), or never knows of or is taught of Christ....what happens to that person when he dies? Does he go to hell? Don't the Christian believe you have to be Baptised or you go to hell? 6) And finally...what does "Saved" mean? I hear Christians say that all the time...even mass murderers on death row...does that me their sins are forgiven and they get to go to heaven with say an honest hardworking man who gave all he could to his fellow man?...do they reap the same reword?....cause if that's the case then I will go out and sin as much as I can (cause less face it, it's fun) and near the end of my life somewhere I'll get "Saved"! Please answer these questions to the best of your ability....I will be waiting for your reply....oh and please don't answer any of these questions with a question...your direct Christian answer will suffice...thanks!

Hello JoshuaK, Yes I have a question..actually 6 of them.... 1) How come Christians don't have any Temples? Christ worshipped in a Temple, He went there to teach often and he even refers to the Temple as a house of God....And you can read about Temples all through the Bible....so, why don't Christians have Temples? 2) If Christians believe the Bible to be the word of God, literally...then where are your Prophets...God always had prophets to lead and guide his people....why don't Christians have a Prophet? 3) Which one of the Christian churches should I go to to learn about Christ and His Gospel...there are so many? I have looked into some and they all teach something that I think is right but then they all have alot of differences...which one is the right Christian church...the one Jesus himself set up? 4) What's the difference between a Christian and a Baptist? Or a Lutheran? Or Pentacostal? Presbyterian? Methodist? Calvinist? Evangelical? 5) If a person never hears the word of God...(I'm taking those who have been sheltered away from the Bible or denied the Bible such as in China), or never knows of or is taught of Christ....what happens to that person when he dies? Does he go to hell? Don't the Christian believe you have to be Baptised or you go to hell? 6) And finally...what does "Saved" mean? I hear Christians say that all the time...even mass murderers on death row...does that me their sins are forgiven and they get to go to heaven with say an honest hardworking man who gave all he could to his fellow man?...do they reap the same reword?....cause if that's the case then I will go out and sin as much as I can (cause less face it, it's fun) and near the end of my life somewhere I'll get "Saved"! Please answer these questions to the best of your ability....I will be waiting for your reply....oh and please don't answer any of these questions with a question...your direct Christian answer will suffice...thanks!

I know this is a little late in the response, but I did take the challenge and read the BOM and it was for the first time in my life. I was baptized 26 years ago and thought I had a testimony until I actually read the BOM and prayed about it. I didn't get a still small voice response from the Spirit...I was overwhelmed with a vengeance. I was as if the Lord had been waiting for me to read the book and then earnestly pray about it's truthfulness. I have since become Temple worthy and was sealed with my wife and son. I thank God for our Prophets challenge.

Hi, I have a question about a Priesthood ordinance I have heard about but have never witnessed nor can I find anything at LDS.org regarding it. It's the consecrating of a grave. My father passed away yesterday and I will be traveling for the funeral in another state in a few days and I wish to consecrate his grave site. I am a Temple reccommend holding member (newly endowed and sealed). If anyone has the correct wording etc. for this ordinance please reply. Thank you.

Hi Joseph...I'm new here too! Just a couple of questions.... 1. How did you find the Church? Where you introduced to it by a friend, did the Missionaries knock on your door, or did you just discover it in a book? 2. Are you a new convert or just investigating the Church? Joseph, I am a convert to the church, I was Baptized 26 years ago and am only now starting to understand the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's a continual process, one which must be worked at everyday and one which brings unimaginable blessings to you and your family. If you want to really know what the Church is all about then read the Book of Mormon and get on your knees as in Moroni's promise and ask God whether the book is true....you will get your answer if you have faith and a contrite spirit when asking. You will find the book is real, and if the book is real so was Joseph Smith's first vision. No one or book can tell you whether the Church is true....only through the Holy Spirit may the truth be made manifest to you. I have found the best starting point to learning about the church is in the Gospel Principles class on Sundays in your ward...it's a fantastic starting tool in learning the Gospel and the truth. And as you learn I promise you that it will seem like all your questions of where you came from, why you are here and where you are going will be answered. I remember as a new adult convert looking ahead at the changes that I had to make in my life to follow the Commandments and precepts of the Lords Church and thought how hard it was going to be. I was so wrong.....the Lord helped me every step of the way. There is one thing you do need to know if you are investigating the church and that is Satan will stop at nothing to keep you from progressing toward your salvation. He will throw all he can in your way. But hold on to the iron rod, endure and remember the Lord will be with you. He lives and he loves us. My God Bless you on your journey my brother!