Brother Dorsey

Which brings up a funny story..... A couple weeks ago my family and I were attending a Baptism at our chapel for a new convert. We always enter the building through the main doors (there are doors on the other side of the building). The font room is located on the backside of the building and the fastest way to get there is through the cultural hall. At this point we noticed that the cultural hall doors were all tied shut with red silk ribbons. Curious, I untied a ribbon and peaked inside and I could not believe my eyes. It was no longer a cultural hall/basket ball court/stage etc., It had been transformed with huge carpets, table cloths, chair covers, bunting all around the room, huge columns and curtains, fake trees galore, twinkle lights, and each table was decorated to the hilt and where some people line the ceiling with crap aper this was lined with yards of cloth....it was fantastic. It, looked like a palace. I was stunned, it had to have taken many many people all night to decorate it. My wife and I stood there with our jaws hanging and she looks at me a says, "If this is the reception for this person who's getting baptized today, then make sure we get invited to their wedding when that happens." But seriously...it was decorated so elaborate that at any minute I expected doves to fly around the room.

Absolutely! The Lord's church never left the Earth as He promised...but the authority to act in His name did....thus the apostasy. When the authority of the Priesthood of God was removed from the Earth it left man without revelation from God to guide man in matters of the Lords church. When this happened the true teachings of Christ throughout both the OT and NT were distorted and in some cases removed by man. In the 4th century, a couple hundred years following the apostasy it was man who formally organized the Lords church and choose it's canon out of ancient writings and stories. The church then split and split and split many times over so then there were many churches professing the truth and in those churches were good, honest God fearing and God loving Christians who worked with what they had. Each of those churches had parts of the truth but none had all.....until.....the restoration as promised in the Bible. As LDS we do not discount the centuries of wonderful and faithful Christians who worshiped with the only truths they had...we don't discount them and neither does God.

If this is the case now then I retract my statement.....sorry!

Yes but someday he will be.......

And herein lies the problem....as LDS we have continuing revelation from God, We have additional scriptures which clarify the Bible, again, from God, We have the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Bible is great and it's the word of God....but it's not the entire word....He wasn't finished speaking to us and guiding us. We've been given more truth and so, yes, to you, one who has only a part of the word of God until you receive the fullness you will never be able to reconcile the Lords Gospel with just the Bible alone.

Dude.....Revelations is a life saving book too....what do you make of this then: Rev. 20: 12-13 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. So, you still don't believe you will be judged by your works? And as far as you believe, I take it if we are all saved through Christ and no works persay....then preytell, Why are we judged by our works? What is the purpose then? I mean if we are saved by Christ's grace alone then why the need to judge our works as it CLEARLY states in the Bible?

Well, this explains it then......you just get out of "How to testify to a Mormon" class? Please understand something here....We have all heard this same crud for years.....it's been beaten to death. You are just like all the rest....you ask us the same twisted questions but really could care less when we straighten out the question and give you an honest answer. If you really wanted to know what we believe you'd accept our answers and move on instead of telling us what we believe is wrong.....Same old, same old

Really? The Bible says no one has seen God? Moses didn't see God? Adam didn't walk with Him in the garden? WOW...and I suppose you are going to say that Christ was not God now huh? Dude, These are anti-Mormon questions and they are very very old...get some new ones....or better yet go to lds.org or mormon.org either one of those websites can clear up the misconceptions that you have been taught about Christ's true church.

LOL....Dude...listen to Kona....The idea of a Heavenly Mother is not and never has been doctrine or canon of the church.

Huh? Dude.....This was never LDS doctrine....ever. Christ was concieved by the Spirit perod. You really need to stop getting your "Mormon Doctrine" info from anti-Mormons, ex-Mormons and their web sites.

Ankh..... I went through a similar period of inactivity from the church. I was baptized at 21, went to church for about a month, received the Aaronic priesthood, went a couple more months and became inactive. I learned very little of the Gospel, never read the BOM or standard works, didn't know anything but what the missionaries taught me, and was pretty much left on my own at church...no home teachers came around, no calling, no "hi, how are you doing"...nothing...I simply fell away....for 23 years. But the seed was planted. I had a testimony of the first vision, small as it was, I believed it. During those 23 years I was absolutely unfaithful to the Lord, drank, smoked, cheated on my wife, got divorced, I was bound by Satan's silken chains. But, then I remarried, found a great woman who was a non member and she wanted to know what I believed. I told her what I could remember about the church and Joseph Smith. She was intrigued and wanted to know more but I couldn't remember much more. A few years later the missionaries came knocking at my door and my wife took the lessons. We went to church every Sunday, I stopped smoking, drinking coffee and alcohol, and cussing (a real problem of mine). After about 4 months of listening to the missionaries and actually going to Gospel principles classes I learned a lot and my wife wanted to be baptized. This was almost 6 years ago. When I went to interview with the Bishop about being worthy to baptize my wife I was so afraid I was going to be kicked out of church for my past deeds. I didn't sleep for the 4 days prior to the interview. As I sat in this good mans office he asked me the standard questions...when he got to the part of " is there anything in your past you need to repent of," It was as if someone opened a valve, many tears were shed as I told him everything, I was so ashamed and was truly repentant for my past actions. I told him that I would follow his council and if I was to be dis-fellowshipped or excommunicated I would do whatever I had to to be a member of the Lord's church once again. The Bishop paused, stood up, embraced me for the longest time and told me, "the Lord loves you" (the 4 greatest words I could ever have heard at that time) and that the Lord knew my heart and that I am worthy to baptize my wife. The Bishop has been given the gift of discernment, the ability to know the truth of repentance. He said I was in a very dark period of my life those 23 years and I have now come back into the light and have grabbed hold of that iron rod once again. A few months later I was ordained an Elder and a year later our family was sealed in the Temple. Ankh, brother, the Lord loves you...welcome back!

Well, we have as head of the church Jesus Christ, who directs His church through revelation given to the Prophet or President of the church, he has two councilors, followed by the quorum of the 12 Apostles, the first and second quorums of the Seventy who act as area Presidents. Missions (geographical areas) which include a Mission President, Within each Mission are Stakes which each have a Stake President, 2 councilors and 12 High councilors, Wards which make up the Stakes, each Ward has a Bishop with 2 councilors and many different auxillaries...ie: Sunday School, Primary, Relief Society (which BTW is the largest womens organization in the world), Young Mens and Young Womans groups...each of these has a President and 2 councelors...then there are all the teachers etc. and other callings. A true lay ministry! General Authorities (Mission Presidents and up to Prophet do receive living expenses however as their calling requires them to be in the Lords service 24/7). Most all General Authorities are retired from their jobs and many give the living expenses back to the church because they don't need it. As far as priesthood authority goes any worthy male can receive the Priesthood. A male can receive the Aaronic priesthood and be ordained to the office of Deacon at age 12 with limited priesthood duties, at age 14 he can become a Teacher and then at 16 a Priest...all with limited duties. When a worthy male reaches adulthood He may receive the Higher Priesthood or the Melchesidak Priesthood with the offices of Elder and High Priest. All General Authorities are High Priests, all males with a Stake calling are High Priests, any male serving in a Bishopric is a High Priest. Whewwww....I hope that helps and I hope I got it right.

Kamperfoelie, I was once where you are now....so many questions and with each answer I wanted more. The fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is a "marvelous work and a wonder" (I love that quote). You have this yearning to learn more because the Spirit of the Lord is bearing testimony to your spirit of the truthfulness of what you are being taught. Believe it or not, these are truths that your spirit has longed for and actually recognizes. You will see how everything fits together so perfectly. You will learn line upon line and your spirit will rejoice. Others talk of having a personal relationship with the Lord, as LDS we really do as He is really the Father of our spirits. That is our divine connection. With modern revelation and the truth of the nature of God, He is so real to us...a real Father who loves us deeply, we can "talk" to him through prayer, we know He hears us and answers our prayers. We know that if He were to appear before us that we could touch Him and embrace Him as we would our Earthly fathers. Regarding a Temple recommend, patriarchal blessing, tithing etc., don't worry, you'll learn all about them in your journey. (BTW, you are not required to pay tithing until you become a member of the Lord's church) Also, it was a Prophet of God who recently said, "Pay your tithing, if you have not enough money left for food or other essential needs...go to your Bishop because he is responsible for your temporal and spiritual welfare." I testify to you right now that if you faithfully and obediently pay an honest tithe the Lord will bless you, you will have enough. Test the Lord....He will open the windows of Heaven. He's never failed me, ever. Godspeed on your journey.....

That's what I like about you PC. **** you'd make a good Mormon....can I interest you in Baptism? Actually I would like to just answer one of your questions with a question: 8. Modern prophecy is not hard to accept. Christians often claim to have seen angels, dreams, and visions. But an open canon? The question: Throughout the Bible the Lord has added to the canon of His church....teaching line upon line, precept upon precept. Do you believe that God has stopped revealing truths to us regarding Him and His Gospel?

In xan's original post she said she wanted to know what we believe and she had a few questions. But it is evident that this was not really the case. She had already made up her mind about what we believe and was not here to have questions answered but to tell us what we believe and to try and prove our beliefs wrong. She wanted us to prove our faith and we all know that's impossible. Time after time, post after post the LDS faithful here answered her questions and clarified what we believe....she could not accept or acknowledge the answers, she just tried to prove our faith wrong and then ask the same question again as if our honest answers didn't matter. Yes, she was cordial, yes she was somewhat Christlike in the sense she didn't attack the poster. Again, from the beginning as she really had no intention of learning anything about us "Mormons". She made up her mind long before coming here. This was easily discernible after only a few pages of the thread. I wish her the best and pray the Father will soften her heart to earnestly search for the truth.

I'm left wondering how anything is ever considered official belief by the LDS church? Sigh....Again..... Our President, Prophet, Seer and Revelator Thomas S. Monson as well as all Prophets before him in this final dispensation teach only canonized doctrine of the church. They do however give a lot of good advice for our time and remind us about the standards of God. This advice is considered revelation from God...but it's not part of official doctrine. The only time something a Prophet of God says that is doctrine is when he quotes official doctrine or if it is given to him by Christ to be canonized as doctrine and added to current canonized doctrine for this dispensation in the D & C.. xan -All these men claim to speak for God and the one true church, but the historical record clearly shows that most have, at one time or another contradicted eachother... Many of the doctrines of the Church were given at general conferences and are still believed such as the doctrine of a “Heavenly Mother”. This doctrine is not found in any of the recognized doctrines but yet it is believed by all Mormons I have encountered. Please believe us when we say THERE IS NO OFFICIAL DOCTRINE of a "Heavenly Mother". However, some LDS choose to hold to an idea of a Heavenly Mother....this idea in no way changes the doctrine of the church. It changes nothing of Christ's Atonement or teachings and it does not keep us from salvation. xan- If truth can change with each and every LDS prophet, then this leads me to believe that Mormons are trusting in mere mortal men, truth is truth, is it not? LOL....hmmm if you are a true believer in the Bible than I could say the same statement to you as many truths were added by each Prophet in the Bible and they were mere mortal men...you trust in them? I do because they were called of God to keep their record of the truth given them. Yes, truth is truth. Truth, the Gospel, Bible BOM, POGP, D&C doctrine of the church, whatever you wish to call it does not change with each LDS Prophet....in fact when revelation is given that the Lord wants canonized it is ADDED to the truth, and does not change the truth. The Bible is truth, the BOM is truth, the POGP is truth, the D & C is truth. The addition of each does not change the whole plan of salvation it is line upon line precept upon precept, truth is given to us in this way. Do you actually believe that you have been given all the truth from the Lord? I guess it all boils down to the fact that you cannot believe that God would want to give us anymore truth and He has stopped talking to his children. xan-LDS leaders of past have felt that what they were putting forth was very important just like the leaders of today: consider Brigham Young's statement: "What man or woman on the earth, what spirit in the spirit-world can say truthfully that I ever gave a wrong word of counsel, or a word of advice that could not be sanctioned by the heavens? (9) Journal of Discourses 12:127-128 Bigger SIGH...why do you refuse to acknowledge my past answer? I'll repost it for you: .....I have seen you many times posting excerpts from Journals & Discourses....J & D is NOT official canonized doctrine of the church. The only official canonized doctrine of the church is the KJV Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price. All others are not. and: Our President, Prophet, Seer and Revelator Thomas S. Monson as well as all Prophets before him in this final dispensation teach only canonized doctrine of the church. They do however give a lot of good advice for our time and remind us about the standards of God. This advice is considered revelation from God...but it's not part of official doctrine.

xan- Everyone here agrees that the Bible is just as reliable as the BOM, Journals and discourses, doctrine and covenants, & pearl of great price...Are all those sound doctrines? I think this statement may be one your problems of misunderstanding LDS doctrine.....I have seen you many times posting excerpts from Journals & Discourses....J & D is NOT official canonized doctrine of the church. The only official canonized doctrine of the church is the KJV Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price. All others are not. xan- Does your bishop preach sound doctrine on Sundays? I see you've never been to an LDS Sacrament meeting before.....The Bishop sometimes will give a talk but most times it is 2 or 3 members of the ward who are called a week or so before who are given a topic to talk about....these members then with thoughtful prayer and inspiration from the Lord prepare a "talk" to give in the next Sundays meeting. In our church there is no escaping the dreaded phone call from the Bishopric to ask us to talk....every member will eventually give a talk...some more than others. There really isn't any preaching in the standard "Christian" sense. Most talks are how we can improve our spiritual selves. LDS folks really don't need no preachin' because we've already accepted the Gospel...we just need a good message to remind us why we are here! xan- What about your apostles? Did Christ's Apostles teach there own doctrine? No and neither will Christ's Apostles in this final dispensation of the Lord's Gospel. xan- And just to clear up my personal confusion, Your prophet does not preach sound doctrine unless he is "in the spirit"? Our President, Prophet, Seer and Revelator Thomas S. Monson as well as all Prophets before him in this final dispensation teach only canonized doctrine of the church. They do however give a lot of good advice for our time and remind us about the standards of God. This advice is considered revelation from God...but it's not part of official doctrine. The only time something a Prophet of God says that is doctrine is when he quotes official doctrine or if it is given to him by Christ to be canonized as doctrine and added to current canonized doctrine for this dispensation in the D & C.. Besides you have to remember the church is perfect, not the people and that includes the Prophet. If the Prophet, one of the First Presidency or the 12, any General Authority of the church, Stake President, Bishop, Sunday school teacher or a member giving a talk in Sacrament teaches something contrary to doctrine of the church the members will know it through the Spirit of the Lord. And if it blatantly continues the Lord will remove that person from their calling.

xanmad33; I'm sorry you feel such anger at me, it truly makes me sad to have made someone feel this way. xan...I am in no way angry with you, I just don't believe you when you say you came here for answers to what we believe and why we believe them. You have been given those answers over and over again yet you refuse to acknowledge them, you simply want to tell us we are wrong and why you believe we are wrong. I was just stating a fact in my last post to you when I said most of us here have heard these same anti-Mormon arguments many many times before and repeating them over and over again doesn't make them true. You really should just save your time on the keyboard. I'm not angry, I'm just being truthful.....simple as that. You should try it! God bless.........

Brothers and Sisters it seems to me that all of xan's questions have been answered a number of times. She refuses to acknowledge our answers to her questions and just wants to somehow proove what we hold dear to our hearts as being of satan. She pretty much refuses to answer the majority of our questions. She refuses the same litmus test for her beliefs as she holds ours to. That leaves us with only one possible explaination....she is here only to contend and we all know contention is of the devil and where there is contention the Spirit cannot dwell and bear testimony of the truth. So, I suggest we stop casting our pearls before swine.

I just love it when someone comes here asking us what we believe and then commences to tell us what we believe. I've been reading this forum for 3 days now and I am surprised that the mods haven't close it yet.... To xan.....don't you know you're in a losing situation? You'll never "convert" or cause a "Mormon" to abandon the truth. And here's why..... You have the Bible, compiled 300 years after Christ died by a bunch of hand picked religious figures from a pagan Roman emperor and then added to with their creedal interpretations of scripture to fit the political climate. Then through the ages (1700 years or so) of translations etc. you have the KJV of the Holy Bible along with those same ancient creedal interpretations adopted by many "different" Christian churches. We have the Holy Bible (less those creedal interpretations) AND we have the further light and knowledge the Lord promised us in the BOM, D&C, POGP and continual revelation from God by a living Prophet. But, you and the rest of evangelical Christendom want us to use your ancient creedal interpretations of the Bible to measure the truthfulness of what we believe. WE DON"T NEED TO! The Bible and the Book of Mormon fit together like a glove. The Book of Mormon and modern revelation clarify and restore simple truths in the Bible. You can bring up all the old anti-Mormon arguments, you can set forth your creedal doctrine, you can quote, miss quote and completely take out of context LDS General Authorities all day long. But you will never convince a member of the Lords church that what we know to be true is wrong because we have been given an absolute witness of it from the Spirit of God himself. The funny thing is we understand your faith fairly well as a lot of us have been where you are and a lot of what you believe we believe. However, I can honestly say that you will never understand or accept our faith unless you yourself receive witness of the truth through the Spirit as we have....and then again if that happened you'd be asking for Baptism. God Bless

Originally Posted by Brother Dorsey That's right...I have calmed way down since I came here and have accepted PC as my brother....even though he's darn near as tall as the Statue of Liberty! Hmmmm...never said I was upset....I said "I have calmed way down since I came here" meaning I was just plain sick and tired of those radical Evangelicals who spew their lies about the LDS church and when I first came here I was on the attack against any anti-Mormon who came into the forum....this is when I went too far and judged PC wrongly...I apologized to him way back when and also...PC was originally my sister....then I accepted him as my brother. Since then I have waited to confront anti-Mormons to make sure that is exactly what they are and I've been right 100% since!!!

Well, most of these topics have been covered in the recent months but....indulge yourself....talk away!

Kona...actually many members here have answered your questions and even given you links to more in depth answers. I think the real problem here is two fold. First all the questions you have asked are typical canned anti-Mormon stuff directly from anti-Mormon web sites or books and secondly you have not really responded to the answers you have been given...you've just asked more anti-Mormon questions. Active members of the Lord's church have heard all this many many times and it's very easy to label you a wolf in sheep's clothing. You've said you've read the churches standard works, and Jesus the Christ and your LDS book library would out do mine or most here. The really really hard thing to believe is that after you've read these works it would cause you to glean from them these atypical anti-Mormon questions you've been asking. If this is the case it would be a tremendous coincidence...the odds are almost unbelievable. So, some here have given you the benefit of the doubt as soon as you cried foul. I for one won't....I believe you to be a liar.

Hmmmm...I have been a member of the church for almost 30 years and have served in many capacities and in many wards and have never, ever heard anyone teach this....ever. How long have you been away from the church? In the past 4 or 5 years we've been encouraged when asked what church we belong to to answer "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints" and not say "Mormon" as it is a nickname and not the name of the Lord's church. Never have we ever been taught that we are not Christian or to deny that absolute fact. Again, I have never been taught to look down on anyone of any faith and have never heard of this being taught in the church. Members of the Lord's church know we are all children of God and equal in His eyes. Now you're getting ridiculous.....you sure you were a member of the church? Or are you pretending that you were to try to add some kind of credibility to your anti-Mormon statements? LOL...now I'm laughing....you are proving to me that either you were never a member OR you never listened in church. You are a very confused person Missy...LDS have always been Christian and have always preferred to be know as Christians. Your statements lead me to believe that you were never a member. Where'd you learn this? At the MTC? Or perhaps at EFY? We are taught to share the Gospel in any way we can. We are also taught that contention is of the adversary and when contention is present the Spirit of God will not be present and without the Spirit to testify of the truth you speak it will be difficult to teach the Gospel. That's pretty much what I have been taught. Huh? WOW....LOL. Who taught you this garbage? This has been and never will be doctrine of the church, nor has it ever been taught in the church. Is this something you just made up or was it something your pastor or preacher told you? Maybe you got it from an anti-Mormon website perhaps? Yes, yes....when the spirit of contention is there you don't need to continue the discussion...yes, you got that one right! No, no....they will not understand because the Spirit of God is not present to testify of the truth....you got that one wrong! Yes...you got this one right...the church teaches us to love them and provide temporal service for them and honor their right to worship as they wish...the Lord will soften their hearts someday in this life or the next so they can be taught. What in the world does your sisters relationship with her relatives have anything to do with the doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ? It was your sisters choice to not teach the Gospel to these relatives and I for one am not going to put her down because of it. And God bless her for doing the saving ordinances for these relatives I'm sorry to hear that...sounds like there's some real contention going on between you and your sister. It unfortunate. But again, what does this have to do with the doctrines of the church? Remember, the church is true and perfect, the people aren't. I agree...she had no right to lash out...but again what does that have to do with what the church teaches? And BTW, the church does not teach that wearing a cross is wrong....we teach that a cross it is not a symbol of our faith. The symbol of our faith is the membership...remember you said, "the LDS are nice and loving people." Just like the Lord has asked us to be? Many LDS choose to wear them and they are not looked down upon whatsoever. Nope...she chooses to have that attitude...the church does not teach that! Every LDS person I know will absolutely agree with you...However like I said it's not a symbol of our faith in Christ. We don't need to wear our faith around our necks. We live our faith.

Okay, if you put it in that context then John who wrote Revelations must be a false prophet too because he made several prophecies that haven't come true.....yet. So, who's to say whether Joseph Smith's prophecies will not come true during our generation, the next or next? The Bible doesn't say that a Prophet's prophecy has a limited time to come true does it?