tesuji

Hm, I don't remember that. Actually, I do, and we skipped over that scene. But yeah. TV is getting worse all the time. Brit TV shows too seem to have gotten quite bawdy. I'm assuming there will come a time when LDS folks won't be able to watch much TV at all, except maybe through something like Vidangel (who just got sued by Hollywood, of course).

“Priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion” (2 Nephi 26:29). I guess I don't understand how it works. Getting praise for "smooth doctrines" I can understand. Buy how do you make money doing it?

Interesting point. It makes me wonder if there was more to the story than the BoM mentions. Why were they giving him money exactly?

Another point he seems to not accept is continuing revelation. According to the doctrine of continuing revelation, it doesn't matter what prophets or the church have done in the past. What matters is what the current prophet says.

Yeah, I tried to watch it again when it came on Hulu recently but found myself skipping to just my favorite episodes. But - so many great quotes. (Or as Homer would say, "So many memories.") "George, we're trying to have a civilization here!" "Serenity now!" . . .

So definitely do not check into how cheap streaming services such as Netflix and Hulu are. Comercial free, even. ;D

Leave this thread now. Run. TV has gotten very good in the last few decades. It turns out that one of the true perils of the last days is excellent TV. I'm partly joking and partly serious. Because of a life situation that I couldn't, mustn't change, TV has been a life saver for me in the past few years. My life has been hell. Watching TV was a distraction at the end of the day that keep me from sinking into deep despair and depression. I'm not saying it was an ideal way to cope, but it was what I found that worked. However, yes, TV can be a huge waste of time. And because it's so good now, you can easily get sucked into a lot of time wasting. Plus, many of the "best" shows, I mean excellence in the art of storytelling using the video medium - many of these "best" shows are also the worst, as far as offensive content. Most of them are TV-MA, so I automatically draw the line, and do not watch them. See, even writing about TV can be a huge waste of time. I could go on and on. Run

Again, I encourage you to read that link I just posted from Pres. Benson. Including this quote:

zomorah, I'm not sure we are going to understand each other. I'm not sure I understand where you are coming from, or why you are making the distinctions you are making. The main point I've been trying to make is that faith is very important. We have faith that this is the Lord's church, and that doing what the prophet asks is an act of faith. Modern people are very leery of the idea of obeying authority, because that has been massively abused by political leaders. We think of Nazis or Jonestown. However, the fact remains that submitting to God is a fundamental part of our doctrine. I'm saying that submitting to the prophet and apostles is what we believe. I do like your term "hearken to the prophet." If by hearken you mean really listen to and really hear. However, I still think LDS doctrine is that we do more than hearken. I guess I'm just repeating myself. I do think this is an all important doctrine, and that you're understanding of it is too far on the "individual freedom" side of the continuum. I encourage you to read the following lesson, from the teachings of Ezra T. Benson. I think he is exactly right on in what he teaches here. (I will admit I was always leery of Pres. Benson because of his personal politics before he became president - to me he was way too far right. However, he toned that down a lot after he became prophet. And his teachings here ring exactly true to me. I also recommend his talk "Beware of Pride.") Follow the Living Prophet https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-of-presidents-of-the-church-ezra-taft-benson/chapter-11-follow-the-living-prophet Even if for some reason you don't buy everything Pres. Benson says, at least look at the scriptures he uses in this.

Yes. Although I agree with FP that not necessarily every decision in the church is the revealed will of God - yes, the church is God's church because in general, to the extent that it needs to be, it's "powered" by revelation. Including the inspired calling of specific people, who the Lord knows will think and act in specific ways while in their leadership role. They will take the church in the direction He wants at this given time.

This is a great way to watch TV series. Skip the duds. The following website is great for finding out which episodes are good: http://graphtv.kevinformatics.com/ If the search doesn't find your show, just use the following example link, and replace the ID at the end with the correct ID on IMDB, http://graphtv.kevinformatics.com/tt0092455

LOL, I thought at first you were calling Felicity on Flash "furniture." (They used that term for women in the movie Soylent Green. Very un-PC.)

OK, if you will allow me to revise my statements a little, I will say this: It doesn't matter if something is explicitly claimed to be a revelation. And maybe revelations can be on a continuum, of how strong they are - and by your criteria, where do you draw the line before you choose not to obey a leader? What matters is that the Lord has called a prophet and apostles. An important part of being a member of Christ's church is sustaining and following His leaders. And having faith that they will lead us right. I'm not saying that if the prophet had a psychotic break and ran to the internet and typed, "All members, take your kids out in the yard and shoot them! They will go to a better place!" that I should run out and do something so crazy. But when has an LDS prophet ever told members to do anything even remotely crazy like this? Here are some great quotes. (The whole lesson here is excellent, if anyone wants to read it.)

I am talking about official revelations. I think when the leaders make significant announcements of policy or doctrine, that is official revelation. Certainly, the things were the prophet and 12 apostles sit in council and reach unanimous agreement. The important things. For example: The proclamation on the family. Conference talks by apostles. Significant media announcements that came from the prophet and apostles in counsel. That kind of thing. When you follow these, you are following God. That's the faith that is core to our religion - that the prophet leads the church by revelation, from God. Obedience is a core virtue of discipleship. Sustaining church leaders is a core virtue. I think you did agree to that when you were baptized, even if wasn't spelled out. Many things aren't - tithing, etc. I think you are on very shaky ground when you start saying, "I will follow God, and ignore the prophet. Because I know what God wants and the prophet doesn't." Or as I've heard some people say recently, "Joseph Smith was a prophet, but our recent prophets have strayed away from that." Very shaky. A person is totally free to say and think these things. But they are no longer following the LDS religion that was established by God.

I like the OP question. I have often wondered this too. How to understand the temple better. Since there is no obvious, official way to do this in the church, I have assumed you should just keep going to the temple, and keep listening, pondering and praying, and you will understand more as you are ready. I'm glad to know some people have asked the temple presidency and they have responded freely. There are of course books, too, which I haven't read much of - Packer's book as mentioned already, and Nibley's Temple and Cosmos. Most of the things taught in the temple are in the scriptures, especially the Pearl of Great Price and the Doctrine and Covenants, so you could look for commentaries on those verses.

My favorite TV shows are: Star Wars Rebels - I love this show, even though I guess it's aimed at kids. It's the classic SW spirit - good values, facing your fears to fight evil. Agents of Shield - the first season started off slow, but it got very good after that. The latest season got a little dark for my taste. Peggy Carter - I loved this show and was sorry it got cancelled. It ended up being lighter than I expected, but I still enjoyed it. They did seem to kind of run out of plot ideas toward the end. Parks and Recreation - A little too PG13 but great fun. This show ended a couple years ago but I keep re-watching it. The Last Man on Earth - A little too PG13 (actually, adult themes) but I enjoy it in spite of that. You never know what's going to happen on this show. Spoiler, possibly: Are you ready for a possible spoiler... OK, the showrunner says the long term arc for this show will be how Phil/Tandy learns not to be a selfish jerk. Knowing this makes Phil's character easier to endure because he's going to be redeemable. TURN: Washington's Spies - This show really does push up against an R/TV-MA rating. But I love the story. I love the based-on-historical fact, Revolutionary War setting. The Last Ship - This is one of the shows I watch while I'm waiting for new seasons of my real favorites. The premise is unique (a navy ship, trying to save the world). I like the unpredictability of the plot. One or two things have been just plain dumb (burning bodies in a power plant?). Shows I have gotten tired of: Flash - got boring after a couple seasons. Arrow - got boring for me after a couple seasons. And so much violence. For me it "jumped the shark" when (spoiler---) his mother was killed so graphically. Legends of Tomorrow - watched a few of the first episodes, was bored. I'm seeing a trend here for me, with DC Comics TV shows... Game of Thrones - To see what all the fuss is about, I watched the first episode on Vidangel, heavily content-filtered. What a horrible story and horrible characters, even with the sleazy stuff removed. All these TV-MA "prestige shows" make me ill thinking about them - how rotten TV has gotten. Manhattan - Very offensive content even though TV14. I am intrigued to watch next season but don't know if it's worth it. [added] I forgot a few more favorites. My wife loves PBS mysteries, and sometimes I get hooked on them too. Endeavor - the young inspector Morse. I never could enjoy the original Morse series, though. Foyle's War is another one we love, but I think it's finally ended now. Doc Martin is a hoot. Not a mystery, just a, uh, drama/comedy I guess. Unfortunately, new seasons only come every two years. Darn Brits, they insist on taking time for quality... So, yeah, at this time in my life I have strong need for escape, through watching TV. I'm changing careers soon, and hopefully then I won't need TV to help me get through the week...

I am talking about the First Presidency and the 12 apostles. Before they make an official statement of any significance, they discuss it and wait until there is unanimous agreement. I have to assume they also pray about it. Opposing such official pronouncements publicly is apostasy. If you privately have a problem with it, then you take it to the Lord in prayer. Meanwhile, you obey it. Often a testimony comes after obedience. I think it may be fairly common for some church members to have a problem with an official doctrine or policy. It's happened many times in the past - when polygamy was announced, when the church opposed the ERA, when the church opposed gay marriage. The important thing is what you do, when/if you ever have that feeling. The church is not a democracy, and there is no such thing as a "loyal opposition." No, the prophet and apostles are not infallible. However, part of being a member is having the faith that the leaders are guided by revelation and inspiration from the Lord - and in the very least, the Lord will not let the leaders lead us astray. I am not advocating blind obedience. The Lord want us to use our brains. But sometimes obedience is needed in the meantime, while you figure things out: I think this is very important to understand, which is why I keep harping on it. in these last days, there will surely be even more things in the future that many members have a problem with, as the world gets more wicked and the prophet denounces that wickedness and/or asks us to make sacrifices. The worldly hate prophets. We need to understand this and be prepared to follow the prophet instead of the world.

You said apostasy: "It is, literally, the abandonment of a belief. If the LDS church has a teaching, to think it a mistaken teaching is apostasy. " Your Google link says: "the abandonment or renunciation of a religious or political belief." Your statement adds the idea that thinking a church teaching is mistaken is apostasy. I don't think that in by itself qualifies as apostasy. Apostasy is actively opposing a teaching and rejecting it. That's not the same thing as merely thinking the church leaders are wrong. If you think they are wrong, you should take it to the Lord, ponder it, and try to understand the truth. And exercise enough faith to stay in the church while you keep seeking. Merely thinking something is not by itself apostasy. The difference between a faithful member and an apostate is how you respond, what you do, when you don't understand a doctrine or church policy, etc. or think it is wrong.

Please read my explanation above.

I'm not sure I agree with your definition of apostasy. Apostasy means "A turning away from the truth by individuals, the Church, or entire nations," according to the lds.org Guide to the Scriptures https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/apostasy I think the general meaning as used in our church is rebellion against God. The Greek root means to stand apart or to stand away. You are no longer a part of the church, at least in your belief and your commitment. We are free to believe what we believe. I think we should all be pondering and exploring and trying to understand. We should internalize the gospel, and make it our own. We will come up with some untrue ideas, and hopefully later learn better. It's a process. So believing something false is not automatically apostasy. However, while we are seeking individual understanding, we also need to press forward with faith in God and the leadership of his prophets. When we take our own private understanding of something and preach it, and it's against what the prophet says, that's apostasy. When we publicly oppose the church, that's apostasy. If we have a problem with what the prophet says, we should take it to the Lord, and keep humbly and sincerely trying to understand the truth. I really think the Lord wants us to understand. But often understanding comes after the obedience and trial of our faith.

Why do we Mormons hate education? Our scriptures teach us that learning is one of the most important things. Utah is dead last in spending per pupil. So more money is definitely needed. Class sizes in Utah are ridiculous. The states that spend the least per student: 1. Utah ($6,555) 2. Idaho ($6,791) 3. Arizona ($7,208) Compare this to the states that spend the most: 1. New York ($19,818 per student) 2. Alaska ($18,175) 3. District of Columbia ($17,953) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2015/06/02/the-states-that-spend-the-most-and-the-least-on-education-in-one-map/

Utah's teacher problem: What can be done to keep educators in the profession? Deseret News June 9, 2016 http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865655957/Utahs-teacher-problem-What-can-be-done-to-keep-educators-in-the-profession.html

We aren't going to be on the same page. You are entitled to your opinion. We live in a Telestial world, but we belong to a religion that believes we don't have to put up with that. Raw, laissez faire Capitalism is not the gospel. It can be modified or improved. I believe we have the intelligence, and the obligation as disciples of Christ, to do that, in fact. There I said it: Heresy, I know. I'll give you my bishop's number if you want to start the excommunication process...

Backroads, By the way, have you read the following book? I'm in chapter 4 so far and I really like his ideas: Creative Schools: The Grassroots Revolution That's Transforming Education Apr 19, 2016 by Ken Robinson https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Schools-Grassroots-Revolution-Transforming/dp/0143108069/

The difference between teachers and beer folks is that teachers are paid by the public. We have the power to improve the system, and pay teachers more, and reduce class sizes, etc. There is a public interest in good teaching in our democratic system: