tesuji

Thanks for this link. This definitive statement is the right way to start off this discussion.

Dang, you guys start up a genuinely significant thread on a day when I can't focus on it. I hope to reply later. I do believe the question of what is doctrine is all-important. Doctrine means something that we must know and follow as LDS members. So knowing what it is - that's very important.

The King Follett discourse was re-published in the Ensign https://www.lds.org/ensign/1971/05/the-king-follett-sermon?lang=eng

To the people here making a lot of broad statements about "The Asians," as Trump would put it - Perhaps you want to start another thread about the morality of Asians, rather than derail this one. Just remember you are talking about a region that consists of many countries and cultures and billions of people. And that their cultures are very different form the West. Also, that these people have not had the benefit of Christian teachings. However, they have had a lot of admirable teachers of morality in their history - as the Book of Mormon says, the Lord gives teachers of truth to all nations. So I suggest you specify which Asian culture you are going to talk about. And maybe you even want to withhold from commenting unless you think you really understand whatever culture you are discussing. I lived in Japan for over a year teaching English, and the Japanese I met were good people. I think we could learn a lot from the Japanese - about working together and getting along together in harmony, for example.

I think it's very possible. I know someone whose patriarchal blessing blesses that person to find the mate they knew in the pre-existence. I'm not saying this case is true for everyone, though... I remember running into people at BYU all the time who seemed so very familiar. I wondered if a lot of us had know each other before, sort of like recruits going down to earth at the same time. Eternity also stretches backwards into the past, not just into the future. We had a lot of time to know a lot of people. In theory. I don't have any concrete idea of what our lives were like as premortal spirits.

Awakened, this is a line from the musical Saturday's Warrior. if I remember right, the main character guy knew the main character girl in the pre-existence.

I enjoyed Dark Matter when it popped up on Netflix a while back. There are some interesting plot twists. I'm looking forward to season 2.

The British are frantically Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it Google search history suggests many Britons had little idea what they were voting for. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/06/24/the-british-are-frantically-googling-what-the-eu-is-hours-after-voting-to-leave-it/

Reece, to add my two cents: You could say that in Mormon theology that really everything comes down to being about the temple. The ultimate aim of this life is to be baptized, and be married for eternity. So that's a big reason why the church focuses on temple so much. I disagree that the temples themselves are extravagantly costly. Not compared to many Catholic cathedrals, by comparison. Temples are made to the standard of a nice typical US living room. Now, if you think we are building too many temples, then you have a point about the expense, because that adds up. But as I said, the temples are central to our religion, so I don't think the church is building too many. They build as many as church members will utilize, and no more. The time spent in temples is apparently one of the most important things that goes on in this world. Everyone must have their temple ordinances done, whether in person or vicariously. This point is clear from the teachings of the prophets. People who do temple work are doing a great, Christian service. It is one of the best things you can do with your time - its is a blessing for eternity. About the ideal family - yes, the church teaches the ideal, which is the traditional family with a father, mother, and kids. They must teach the ideal. If you think church members are sometimes insensitive to families that don't fit the ideal, then I think you are right. However, the thing is, as you said, it will all work out. Sorry to repeat that, but it's true. Going to the temple to be "sealed" isn't actually the goal - it's going to the temple to be sealed, AND THEN having that ordinance sealed by the Holy Spirit, which is not automatic, and depends entirely on your faithfulness to your covenants and living the gospel. We call it "being sealed in the temple," but the actual real sealing comes later, and is something God decides to grant you. The important thing is to live the gospel in whatever circumstance you find yourself, and work toward the ideal goal, whether that happens sooner or later. Faithfulness is the key to it "all working out."

Brexit and Trump seem to be very much about immigration. I happened to read the following prophecy by Lehi this morning. Apparently the Lord isn't so concerned about immigration, to the Americas at least. Seems like maybe he even has a grand purpose in bringing people here.

What about sex? I have the impression the Chinese sensors are much stricter on that

On a much lighter note - Brian Regan on no-nonsense judges

I've never heard of someone doing this, but it makes total sense to record impressions of the Spirit while they are fresh. I would think in the interior lobby area where people wait for companions after a session would be an appropriate place. You could also ask the temple staff, and explain why you want to write. Of course you might just go out to your car.

The official church essay on this topic is great, https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints?lang=eng Brian and Laura Hales have also recently put out some great books on this. Their summary volume is https://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Smiths-Polygamy-Toward-Understanding/dp/1589587235/

The intro blurb to Hebrews 12, written by Elder McConkie I believe, says, "Exalted Saints belong to the Church of the Firstborn." It's apparently referring to Hebrews 12:22-23: D&C 107 affirms this:

Americans are fighting about politics. Congress is fighting rather than getting anything done. Trump and Clinton are fighting (yeah, it's a campaign, I know). Mormons are getting too caught up in the partisan enmity in our country. I've heard too much in church meetings about politics. It's not heading us toward Zion. I do object to political threads like this one. It's impossible usually to debate politics and keep the Spirit. For example, personally, even seeing this thread praising Trump made me angry enough I'm sure to lose the Spirit. Most any political discussion is going to make people angry or upset. Yes, we should vote, but not argue with other members about politics. The reason there isn't more fighting here on my part is that I believe political debates are largely fruitless - most people are not going to change their minds and it just generates ill-feelings. How many people here will even look at the counter-Trump links I posted above?

I don't know why you assume I'm saying we should put our head in the sand until Jesus comes. Yes, it is our duty to vote as citizens in a democracy. But that is not going to bring about Zion. The way to build Zion is to become a Zion people. It is not by fighting among ourselves as church members about worldly philosophies, which are merely the ideas of men. Our thinking and our actions must rise above worldly politics. 4 Nephi describes what we should be working towards, and also the account in Acts of how the early church members treated each other.

Zion will not stand upon or be supported by worldly ideologies. And Christ will head the government. Zion will be above what Republicans, Democrats, Communists, Capitalists, Socialists, etc have to offer. But we won't get there unless we live the gospel and become one in heart.

In case you think I'm just talking out of ignorance or close-mindedness when I say Trump is a liar, check out: http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/ For more, just google "trump lies" for more fact checking analyses on his past speeches. Google shows there are also already a lot of articles showing how much he has lied and distorted the truth in this speech about Clinton. For example: AP FACT CHECK: Trump's distortions on Clinton http://bigstory.ap.org/a0eecb48c6c84aaa9cdad9141fbcd09c Donald Trump gets lost beneath 'an avalanche of falsehoods' http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/donald-trump-gets-lost-beneath-avalanche-falsehoods

I realize what you are saying - part of the problem is people aren't listening to each other. But I've listened to Trump enough and learned enough about him. He is a demagogue and a liar and a horrible person. If I watch that speech it will push my blood pressure to dangerous levels It's not my Zion, it's the Lord's. Zion is becoming one in heart. Partisan fighting over worldly ideologies is going in the opposite direction.

I saw your quotes, that was enough. I already know I don't trust anything Trump says. The divisions in this country didn't start with Obama, but they certainly have been fanned during Obama by demagogues

At least as much negative could also be said about Trump. Finding common ground and working together to find pragmatic solutions is better than lobbing artillery shells at the other side. Alas, the days of trying to understand the other side are gone: Report: Partisan Bad Blood Highest In Decades http://www.npr.org/2016/06/22/482970864/report-partisan-bad-blood-highest-in-decades No one side has a monopoly on goodness or on good ideas. My hope is that at least among Mormons we can move toward Zion, toward becoming one, even as the world becomes even more divided by anger and pride and close-mindedness.

Apparently, there are supposed to be at least two medical professionals on each trek, according to the LDS trek manual linked to in the article. Makes me wonder how this happened. I'm too old to have been on trek, or maybe we just didn't do it in the northwest where I grew up. So trek is a strange thing to me, but I imagine it's a great experience for people who do it.

I just watched Deadpool. Very entertaining despite all the fighting. I watched with lots of filters on Vidangel - totally hacked up the movie, and hard to follow during a lot of it, but ironically much more watchable for me than no filters. I loved the very end too Thanks again

To add to what I've said already - I think one of the basic issues here is that immodesty is misusing the divine gift of procreation. Sexual attractiveness, etc - it's all tied up in the divine gift of procreation. We know how seriously the Lord takes this area, because he said adultery is second only to murder in seriousness. The D&C says if a man (or woman, I'm sure) lusts, he will not have the Spirit. For an LDS member this is a serious thing. Sure, his thoughts are his own responsibility. But if you as are the stimulus to him losing the Spirit or worse, you also share some of the guilt.