tesuji

I think you might agree that some of what you have said in this analogy is speculative. We don't know much about these things. However, I offer my own version of heaven: OUTER DARKNESS: "No video games. Forever. Just hard labor. Without tools." TELESTIAL KINGDOM: "Play all you want, of video games invented before 2000." TERRESTRIAL KINGDOM: "Our new video games are more awesome than you can imagine!" CELESTIAL KINGDOM: "Video games? Oh, that's nothing. Check out this--" (Warning: This post may contain highly speculative information.)

No, they will not be miserable for eternity. But they won't be able to progress in significant ways. The gospel they hear in heaven will the same gospel they heard here on earth. If they never had the gospel formally presented to them in this life, then they will get that opportunity to hear it in the next life. However, portions of gospel truths are found in most all cultures, so they will have heard some of it already. Alma 29:8: "The Lord doth grant unto all nations, of their own nation and tongue, to teach his word." Plus, everyone has the light of Christ in this life, so they have already chosen to follow or ignore that when they lived in this life. I have always loved this explanation of how people receive and loose light:

I also found something that looks promising, as another way to regular what your family sees. I don't think it has filters, though. Circle with Disney http://www.amazon.com/Circle-CIRC001-with-Disney/dp/B019RC1EI8 I just ordered this gadget to help us manage our kids summer online activities. I hope it's good

Yes, I also recommend these scriptures. Read all of D&C 19, D&C 88 and D&C 76. "Damned" in Mormon theology means to be stopped in your progress. People who don't achieve the Celestial Kingdom will at some point not be able to progress further. It is important to remember that everyone must suffer for their sins, if they don't repent. So that will be your hell, according to Mormon theology, if you have to suffer the full weight of your sins. (D&C 19) God wants us all to progress and receive all possible blessings. However, some people do not want to progress, or do not want to live the laws that would qualify them to receive all the blessings they could. People's hearts will remain basically the same after they die and pass into the spirit world. My understanding is that it's harder to change without a body. My understanding is that at some point you are "set" into either the Celestial, Terrestrial or Telestial Kingdom (or outer darkness, God forbid). I think this may happen at resurrection, where you get one of the three types of bodies (see D&C 88). You will not be able to progress to a higher kingdom. I think it's very possible that we don't yet know the full story about how all this happens. However, I think by the time you are judged, your character and desires will have been fully tested and will be completely known to yourself and to God. It will be clear to everyone in which kingdom you will be most comfortable and happy. The most important thing is that Jesus alone will judge. His judgement will be perfectly fair and loving and understanding to each person's circumstance. You can also check out the Gospel Principles manual, the church institute manuals, and lds.org for more info.

MormonGator, I hope you are never as frazzled as I got sometimes as a parent with small kids.

I am impressed by your humility and open-mindedness. I hope I can always be like your example here.

I've often wondered how and when this will happen. But you'll have to spell it out if you think it's starting to happen, because I don't really see it myself.

I ran across this on Facebook. How awesome would it be if our Mormon priesthood meetings were like this? (I hope this Facebook link works for everyone) (Beard trigger warning. This post contains beards. )

To prepare I would review a summary of the things Jesus did. Everything he did shows his love. Including his atonement. It shouldn't be hard to find examples. You can also google something like "Lds how jesus showed his love" - it should bring up articles on lds.org. Also, look at the chapter in the book Gospel Principles about Jesus. Should be enough in there for a 5 minute talk. If you can't find this book on lds.org, let me know and I'll find the link.

Carborendum, I have liked your previous posts on this forum, so I read all of your long post. This effort makes me so proud of the church. This is pure religion, undefiled - to cloth the naked and feed the hungry. Probably most of us in this forum can't imagine what it must be like for these poor people. The following gave me literal goose bumps as I read it, "This made me think of the gathering of Israel. Many of these Christians have heard the voice of the Shepherd." Of course the church doesn't help people in need just so they will be baptized, but I agree that the Lord has his way of drawing people to him. The news does give us a garbled and incomplete picture of things. I have read news articles about a couple things that I personally was involved in, and it is amazing how inaccurate those reports were. Even simple facts they got wrong. Good luck with this not turning political. Many aspects of this invite political discussion. Demagogues have cynically tried to turn the suffering of these people to their political gain. But I hope people honor your request.

Back to the OP, I'm curious why you think the chaos in Venezuela will happen soon in the US? The US is in a much better situation. The situation in the Venezuela is a result of huge incompetence by it's last two leaders. I think the biggest political threat to our country is the growing extreme partisanship on both sides. Democracy works by compromise, not "My way or no way" thinking. The thing I most worry about in the practical realm is widespread loss of electricity. It seems too easy for terrorists (or just our lousy grid) to bring down power. How long would any region of our country function during a prolonged power loss? You can't even flush a toilet now without electricity. PBS NOVA did an interesting show about the sun, and they said a large solar flare like the one that happened in the 1800s could knock out power for decades. It would take a long time to manufacture new substation transformers - they don't just have spare ones lying around. Now that's scary. http://www.amazon.com/Nova-Secrets-Sun/dp/B0077PBPXM/ Speaking of PBS NOVA they did a very informative show about the cause of the WTC collapse. http://www.amazon.com/Why-Towers-Fell-Exclusive-Investigation/dp/B00006ADG4/ I think both of these NOVAs on free online at pbs.org Long-term, global warming will be a catastrophe. For example, http://qz.com/681239/global-warming-wont-just-change-the-weather-it-could-trigger-massive-earthquakes-and-volcanoes/ The predictions in our scriptures for natural disasters are all exactly what is predicted from global warming. We knew these would come. Ironically, it looks like we will cause them our selves, due to our massive abuse of the world ecosystem. There are always plenty of reasons to worry about the world. Most of the time they never happen. I remember when Bill Clinton was elected, there was a rumor going around Utah Valley that a general authority had said, "Bill Clinton will be our last president." Because obviously it was the end of the world (according to Utah Valley). Sometimes the best remedy for these things is a good, loud chuckle Even better, trust in the Lord. And be righteous.

I agree with you. This is a great example - did the decline in marriage come because of bad laws, or were people becoming more bad and then they changed the lawS? I think good laws can reinforce becoming good people. Of course in our own church we have many laws/commandments. But I think you of course you have to find the balance. We believe in free moral agency, but we also believe in good laws and good government. We believe in democracy but we also have safeguards in case voters are stupid. In the end, most any form of government will work if the people are righteous. And most any form will fail if people are wicked enough.

Especially if it's Mormon men. They should know better. The Lord looks on the heart, and we should all learn to do that too. Of course you should be attracted to someone enough to be happy married to them. But you don't need a supermodel for that (what a ridiculous term, "supermodel"). Long term attraction isn't much about the physical anyway. I think a warm, loving person with a righteous heart is the most attractive person in the long term. And there is nothing more ugly in the long term than a selfish, mean, or wicked person. I had the amazing privilege of being sealed by Elder Eyring (my wife is related). He told me that in the resurrection my wife would be an amazingly beautiful woman. (I can't remember the actual wording, unfortunately.) I have to think this will be the case for everyone - we'll all be beautiful in every way.

Liberals like to cry "government overreach" too. That's what they call gay marriage bans, pot bans, abortion bans, etc. It seems like everyone likes the government to enforce the things they want enforced. (For the record, I'm completely against legal gay marriage, against legal abortion (certainly for 'routine' birth control), and against legal pot.)

Certainly. I am very individualistic myself. I think it's best to find a balance between community good and individual freedom. I think conservative and liberal Mormons tend to pick out different parts of this to emphasize. But I see both sides in there.

Yeah, I'm not saying 1620 New England exactly equals modern Liberals. Just that I think it's where the liberal "good of community trumps individual freedoms" idea came from. I'm thinking many 2016 citizens of San Francisco wouldn't last one day in 1620 Massachusetts, for example. Would be thrown in the stocks, those that hadn't fled fast enough into the woods

You may know more than I on this. But I think it's pretty clear that once they got to America, they set up a pretty rigid local government. Strict rules, harsh penalties, and no tolerance toward other religions (Quakers, Catholics) They were pretty rule-bound. For the reasons I gave - they thought it was the way to make everyone better.

(Plus, maybe poking a little fun at how most 21st century Mormons seem to be politically conservative. It's not at all clear to me that this must be the default. It wasn't until Reagan)

The classic liberal versus conservative battle. Liberals believe: That as a group (a.k.a. using government) we can and should accomplish good things. In America, this idea came from the early New England Puritans. They believed more in community than most modern Americans now do. Now we are all about individual freedom. The Puritans believed that community rules and enforcement made society better, and helped individuals become better too. Interesting angle for Mormons. The Puritan rules were very religious-based. Extra credit question: Do we modern Mormons believe religious rules should be used this way? Conservatives believe: (well, we all know, but feel free to explain in case there are rogue liberals lurking here... ) I'm not trying to make any point here, except that liberal and conservatives see the world differently.

Are you talking about me here? If so, I'm not sure what the "lisp" reference is about. Anyway, I've never seen a gun in church and I hope I never do. Even on a police officer, although perhaps a bit more understandable. Totally out of place, and even more so if the GAs have said "no."

OpenDNS is also a great way to filter out sleaze. It's free: https://www.opendns.com/home-internet-security/

Please tell me people aren't bringing guns to church

I'm too much of an obsessive worrier to do this. However, for me having kids plus a career etc is overwhelming at times. So I can imagine a clueless or stressed out dad doing this, in an extreme scenario. I can, however, imagine me having this as a nightmare while sleeping. It's the kind of thing my subconscious might be paranoid about.

NightSG, I agree with everything you say. I was speaking in very general terms, not about marriage, when I was talking about how much should the church expect from people. It certainly sounds from your anecdotes that the church, especially local, might have a ways to go when it comes to marriage. I also think singles should not take what other people say so seriously. Who cares what they think. But it's a sensitive topic for singles, I know. I was very sensitive about it. I think it was just a miracle that I got married. Maybe my future kids were praying super hard that it would happen, "Heavenly Father, we know he's a total clueless fool, but please, for our sakes...."

I would add, that ironically, it seems to me that lack of mindfulness is a factor in a lot of these deaths. The typical ones I see are about a dad who leaves his kids in the car and gets distracted by other things. People nowadays are too distracted and scattered in their attention. Multitasking is not a good thing, in my opinion. Also, too much gadget addiction. I feel for those clueless dads. I am too much like they are.