Hyena

I'm not sure this belongs here, so I trust an admin will move it to the appropriate section, as this is not a question per se, but more of... update? So as many of you know I had up to this point, other than this site, been studying with online missionaries. The first two I had got missions in other countries so I was handed off to two others who have been wonderful in teaching me about the restoration and the apostasy and agency. Finally, it was decided that I was ready for baptism and a tentative date of March 9th has been set. At that point they decided I was ready to meet local missionaries. So I agreed to meet some local missionaries at their church because as you know I'm pretty shy and the thought of strange people traipsing through my home sets my hair on end lol. SO I went and met them, and we discussed what the others had taught me, and talked about ourselves a bit. During this discussion it was discovered that I actually live in a different stake? Or ward? So they agreed to get in touch with the missionaries from MY "area" (even though it really wasn't far away from where I live at all) and we went our separate ways. They said I'd be an answer to a prayer though because I was pretty much well informed and ready. So the same day my "new" set of missionaries (I'm starting to feel like a curiosity, being passed around so much lol) called me and invited me to church on Sunday. I guess I had the spirit, because I felt compelled to take a leap of faith and I agreed. Sunday morning came and I discovered that the church was literally like three blocks from my house.. I could have walked there! I was so shocked! I had absolutely no idea there was a church so close to me! I've lived here nearly 10 years and never knew it! I arrived early, as I always do, a bit nervous because I didnt know who I was meeting and the missionaries had not arrived. Immediately people were greeting the heck out of me. It was almost overwhelming, I almost left.. not because they were unpleasant, but because everyone it seemed was falling all over themselves to shake my hand and say hi and greet me and ask about me and it was a bit much. LOL I remember thinking, "nobody can be this nice, they must be suspicious about why this strange black guy is loitering around the door." The missionaries arrived a little bit before service and sorta gave me a rundown on what could be expected and actually sat with me during the service, which I have to say I liked a lot. There was perhaps a bit too much singing for my taste, I mean, I'm sure some people enjoy that sort of thing, but even in my old church I've never been a big fan of hymnals.. I've always found them sort of boring and counter-productive... I want to learn about God and his teachings and how to improve my life and be happy. Singing i can do in the shower on my own time! :) Anyway, I found the church service far more interesting than the ones I attended in the past.. Instead of a sermon, different people got up and talked about stuff about their lives and pasts and it was captivating to hear how the gospel changed their lives. These weren't preachy sermons from priests while everyone sat quietly. In fact, it was a little busy in there... it was like they were holding church in a daycare there were so many kids! No offense, but Mormon women must enjoy labor immensely, because I don't think I saw a single mother in there with less than 4 children, who all played and chittered around the whole time, and nobody seemed to bat an eye. In fact, at one point, I was somewhat distracted from the testimonials or whatever they are called by the members giving their personal speeches by an intense game of Peekaboo I was having with a toddler in front of me with a lion's mane of thick red curls. For a moment I forgot where I was until this kid got a case of the major giggles which drew a little attention our way and snapped me back into reality. :) After that, I was ushered to some sort of other room where they gave a lesson about something to do with Agency and choices and everyone of course spent a great deal of time trying to explain the concept to me in their own words, even though I hadn't uttered a single word or question to encourage such a thing. It wasn't a negative thing though, I found it all amusing that they would be so concerned with my ability to understand even though I wasn't a member. After that, I met the bishop and the stake president and some other men, and we all went to some other sort of meeting where we all sat around and discussed more lessons and personal anecdotes. Here I was asked to give a more robust introduction of myself, and aside from one guy that was a bit too eager make my acquaintance (I think he took the time to explain or ask if I understood every time anyone said anything about anything at all), I felt warmly received. If anything, I'm almost reluctant to be baptized and join the church if only because at some point I won't be the "new guy" anymore and I'd just become a plain old nobody... just some regular member who comes to church and pays his tithes and who has ceased to be of any major interest. They spoke a lot about the power of conversion and how converts seem to have stronger faith than those already in the church for some reasons I didn't quite understand but chalked up to their greater experience. Afterwards, I was once again assaulted by every man in the room instantly wanting to be my new best friend forever and beyond. I have this sneaking suspicion (or rather a horrific terror) that when I get baptized, half of these people are going to be in attendance... which makes me tremble. I don't know if I want a bunch of people staring at me going through such a thing.. and in soaking clothes in a tub being dunked in water.. it's hugely embarrassing and my body is disgusting so I'm hoping March 9th will be an incredibly busy day in the world and they'll all forget or be indisposed or maybe we can have the baptism early in the day when everyone else is at work. Or perhaps I'll just refrain from being baptized indefinitely for the next few years until I'm very comfortable with everyone and they lose enough interest that most of them won't bother coming. Either way, that was my first experience with the LDS church. I got to see what a sacrament was, although I didn't take any because I wasn't sure if I was supposed to since I'm technically not a member, and I thought it might be rude or a violation of some sort of rule to do so. I'm meeting with my missionaries again tomorrow.. this time I believe it'll be at my house, which I'm understandably nervous about. My family is deadset against this and I'm not certain bringing them here would be wise. I'm considering asking to meet at the church to sort of avoid a hostile environment for them. I think though that I'd like this ward. I did hear about something called singles wards, which bothers me because I really don't want to have to move, but maybe I can just convince the bishop to let me stay in his ward. And thus ends my first ever LDS Church visit. :)

Lol that is funny. All the location titles still confuse me. Even the things like my ward vs my stake (well I don't mean MINE.. but if I join they will be mine). You mentioned a singles ward?!? What is that?! I'm a single male.. so does that mean I'm gonna have to switch wards again?!? I don't know if I like the idea of being shipped off somewhere else lol. And if I get married do I have to switch wards once more? I'm the kind of person that I kinda like consistency.. the same people. I like the feeling of belong to a family.. a spiritual family if you will. I don't know if I want to have to get used to whole new sets of people all over again..

I suppose not. Our experiences and our past define us. They make us who we are. That said, that doesn't mean that they control who I WILL and CAN be. We live, we learn. On the subject of the story, it might be true or it might not be. But I imagine that's just one man's opinion or claim. In the end, we all have to decide what we will or won't believe.

Indeed. In fact, it resulted in a kind of confusing, yet amusing situation for me. I met with a local missionary for the first time today. I was incredibly nervous but they kindly allowed me to meet them at the church instead of at my home. It is the first time I've ever been to an LDS church. Interestingly, I must have driven by it a thousand times in my life and NEVER knew it was there although I knew the area well. I sat with the two missionaries for about two hours and really gained a lot from it and it just felt like.. home. I was so moved and touched by how they explained the restoration and these colorful picture books about faith and conquering fear and Jesus showing us by example through baptism that I agreed to arrange for my own baptism. Then the subject of where I lived came up and apparently there was a great deal of confusion lol. You see, apparently, the online missionaries referred me to them, but that isn't the church or meeting house closest to where I live and so apparently I needed to be referred to members of a DIFFERENT ward. Thankfully, they contacted some other missionaries in my neighborhood. I'll be going to church with them tomorrow morning... my first LDS church service. The shocking thing.. an LDS Church is right around the corner from my house, maybe two blocks away. I could literally walk to it and I've lived here nearly 20 years... and I never knew it was there. At all. Amazes me, that does. Anyway, Now I get to deal with two NEW missionaries. Irony is I think now I've been passed through about 6.. (the first two online missionaries got missions and had to leave to other countries so they passed me on to two more who then referred me to these local ones). For someone being shy I'm sure having to meet a bunch of different people. Maybe it's a screening process? I just hope it's the last time. I'm already scared enough.

Thank you... That clears it up for me. Just a little confused, thanks!

I'm a little confused about the distinction. Are they all the same thing? Just a little clarification.

Thank you SO much Vort. ANd Estradling. That really helped, this explanation. I appreciate you taking the time to put it to me logically and rationally without taking much offense from my initial inquiry. That's what I was looking for really is just some thoughts about how this came about. But yeah, it makes good sense when you put it in this way. I'm a scientist by trade (microbiological sciences) and so I respond well to history and logical hypothesis when laid out properly. Thank you for taking the time to educate me and help me put this issue to rest. Basically, coffee and tea are off limits. Can't say I won't miss Green tea... but que cera cera...

I never considered that... it's a good point. Sometimes a question has to be asked for an answer since nobody asked the question before. Thanks Eowyn. That clears most of it up. But I still wonder why the difference based on what the Bible says in regards to some of these eating and health habits when there's an obvious contradiction.

Thank you for the information. But I have to ask for some clarification as well... I don't mean to be offensive, and please understand this question comes from someone who will in all likelihood be a new member within a matter of months. But as someone from the outside looking in, it does beg the question, just if only to educate myself out of my ignorance: If this is how the Prophet Joseph Smith came to pass on that God urges the prohibition of coffee, tea, and tobacco... then my question is two fold: A.) Isn't this contradictory to the Bible wherein Jesus declared all foods clean in Mark 7:19. Didn't God also explain this to Peter that all formerly unclean animals and plants could be ingested in Acts 10:15 where it says specifically, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." So did God change his mind? Or is that something mistranslated in the king james bible and not subject to LDS teachings? and B.) Not intending to be glib, but isn't it a tad bit convenient that Joseph Smith solved what could arguably be a personal issue (he and his wife's dislike of all the smoke filled rooms with tobacco all over the floor) by miraculously returning after a conversation with God suddenly prohibiting these activities? That's like me finding the task of mowing the lawn every Saturday tedious and off-putting as well as weekly flaring up of my allergies from the fresh cut plants and then telling my parents that I was told through prayer that the Lord no longer wished us to mow down the grass that he makes grow in front of our house every week. I'm just trying to understand why there'd be this contradiction and then the decision based around these writings from Brigham Young himself? Again, not trying to insult anyone or start a fight... I'm just trying to understand on the same level as those of you with 100% faith. I want to be where you are.

Thanks! Those quotes helped a great deal too in my understanding. :) Yes, they are. And I suppose all things considered, I'm not really one for demanding that God explain why he wants me to do things his way. After all, just like my Earthly father, sometimes I just had to do what he wanted because "he said so" and trust that it's in my best interest. I'm gonna really miss green tea. It's almost part of my daily regimen. I drink maybe two to three cups a day

So there is no actual reason for the prohibition of these things only that is decreed by the prophets? It is just one of those things we must take on faith I guess. Which is fine. I've never been a coffee drinker or alcohol drinker to begin with apart from an occasional margarita. Is there a list of what constitutes an acceptable tea?

so then there isnt anything about eating or not eating meat or how much to eat in doctrine? Also, I can understand the caffeine issue (as well as some others) with coffee, but why is tea prohibited? And what kind? Theres a lot of different teas black, green, some arent even technically tea "plants" such as Rooibos is actually a nettle plant/bush.. Are these hard and fast rules? Would being an avid tea drinker prevent me from being endowed to enter the temple?

I for one am glad this got reopened. I found it interesting... especially this. So technically, LDS members are supposed to eat no more than 1 pound of meat per week? Is that BEEF meat? or all meat combined, including chickens and turkeys and fish? Is there a definition of "meat"? Like it being only porky or beefy or goaty?

Haha Trust me... I know sooo how you feel. I'm terrified to the point of physically being ill of moving forward. The adversary sure is working overtime to prevent me from joining. I've been communicating for a while here on this site and with online missionaries but now they want to hand me off to live missionaries and start talking about baptism and I just feel like it's soooo fast. I'm scared because my family hasn't responded positively to it at all, most of my friends think I'm NUTS, and I don't really have a large or complex social network so it'll literally be like me suddenly deciding I was going to up and move to Djibouti or something. Like you, I do listen to mostly indie/folk music.. and while I'm not tatted, pierced, or overly sensitive to black fly fashion trends, I do tend to "dress down" often (graphic tees and jeans, please). Some of my favorite bands are the Lumineers, my morning jacket, the O's, Wilco, Other Lives, Band of Horses, Andrew Bird, Modest Mouse... stuff like that. But I've found that it hasn't impacted me greatly beyond a slight change that I tend to not listen to music that sounds deliberately insulting to or dismissive of God. For example, I love the band City and Colour, but he isn't shy at all about his sort of atheist beliefs. He has a song where he talks about how he doesnt need to know how the world basically got here and doesn't want to live under the rules of some God or something to that effect. I just skip that song whenever it pops up on the playlist. So I'm right where you are, mentally on this. But I'm getting to the point that I realize that I can't change my life if I don't actively ENGAGE in changing it. I have to be big boy (in your case, big girl) enough to step up to the plate, lay it all on the table, and just.. take a leap of faith.

As a matter of fact, you'd be somewhat surprised how many people are out there in the "arts" that you might not know were Mormons. For example, Brandon Flowers of the Killers is a member of the LDS church, as are several members of the currently popular band, Neon Trees (I hear it started with a whisper).. One thing I'm learning is that Mormons are as diverse as any group of the population, even baptists and catholics and so forth. Ryan Gosling is (or was.. depends on who you ask) a Mormon, Paul Walker from the fast and furious movies, David Archuletta, the Osmonds, Gladys Knight, literary-nerd superhero Orson Scott Card, Thurl Bailey... there's probably a ton.. they just don't advertise or walk around sporting their faith as a point of pride.

Thank you tremendously for that scripture. It has brought me a tremendous amount of comfort in trying to come to a decision. I've prayed and fretted and made myself physically ill trying to consider this option over the past weekend. I told the online missionaries I've been communicating with consistently that I would take this entire weekend and truly ponder on what they've taught me and discussed and pray for guidance and give them a decision on Monday about whether I will accept their offer to speak with local missionaries about my baptism. Truly, I've only concluded that I do believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, that there is a living prophet, that the book of Mormon is the truth, and that I want to return to the Celestial heavens and be with our Heavenly Father. The only thing holding me back at this point is the stupid, cowardly fear. Fear of admonition. Fear of disappointing and angering those around me. Fear of ridicule and humiliation. Fear of being alone. Fear of strangers (I'm a rather shy individual, always have been and I don't socialize often). I'm in my 30's and I do live with my mother as I continue my college education. I fear that this decision might strain our relationship. I've considered that maybe I should drop out of school, seek a better full time job and move into my own place... and then seek baptism and activity within the Mormon church. But I think of all the things I could be learning and all the good I could be doing in the world in that time frame I'd be wasting. It is good to know I'm not the only one who has wrestled with these sorts of issues. I've prayed about it and I keep hoping and asking for some sort of sign for which I should do, but no sign has been forthcoming. At least not one I've been able to look at definitively. I guess in the end, God is going to make me make the hard decision on my own. Maybe that's part of his plan for me. Much prayer do I see in my future. I'm sure Heavenly Father must be sick of hearing from me so much by now..

Those seem like great questions! Especially the spirit. Is it a different experience for everyone?

I will be speaking with a couple of missionaries tomorrow. In order to maximize the benefit of the time we spend together tomorrow can some of you suggest some good questions that I should ask in order to increase my understanding of the church? Questions that have good informative answers that you feel a young Convert should be asking? Your suggestions are appreciated! Thank you.

I suppose we should keep in mind that the Pope (as all Church figureheads and leaders probably tend to be as a rule) are extremely well educated men who have made something of a life study of theology and religion, and I'd wager that expertise is not limited to simply their own denominational faith. I would posit that the Pope is as well versed in the beliefs and practices of the Mormon church as President Monson probably is of the Catholic faith and traditions and practices. This is probably due to their interactions with spiritual leaders and their work with the everyday masses... many converts to churches when exploring conversion obviously would come from different backgrounds and I imagine even the average LDS missionary has had some rather informative and lengthy discussions in depth with investigators from the Catholic church, as they share with one another in the process. I know that with the missionaries I've been speaking with online (I have yet to have a face to face with a local ward missionary) they've been pretty interested in hearing about my current beliefs, usually in the process of teaching me a lesson or explaining how it is different to the LDS beliefs and how there is a lack of authority or difference in interpretation of the scripture here or there. So I have a strong inclination to believe that the Pope at some point has read and made an careful study of the Book of Mormon... if only to give himself the perceived knowledge to allow him to repudiate LDS claims and convince Catholic practitioners and leadership in ways to address the potential loss of the Catholic church's members to a "competing ideology."

Indeed it tends to be grounds for similar discipline in ANY church.. some more extreme in the punishment than others. But the thing about it is, I don't get the feeling that the LDS would simply just wash their hands of you. I imagine someone somewhere would make at least a friendly effort to bring you back into the fold. At least that would be my hope. Sometimes people lose their way. And sometimes they have to find their way home again. Of course I'm certain many of my fellow Catholics would say something similar.. not to mention that "excommunication" is probably an archaic concept at best.. I hardly imagine the majority of people beyond the most fanatically devoted would "cease to acknowledge the existence" of someone who left the Church to too much of a degree. After all, they are our brothers and sisters and we love them and want them to be saved so some effort should and probably would be made I imagine. That at least is the vibe I get from the LDS, another reason it appeals to me. People actually seem to CARE about you.. not just in title or how much financial merit you have, but as a PERSON and for your SOUL. Even if that assessment is incorrect, again, I have to wonder how they could be certain you were a member of another Church without a confession of sorts. I mean, even if someone claimed they saw me going into a Catholic church for Mass, how would they know how frequently I do it and for what purpose? How do they know I was not simply going as support for another friend or for a specific event in their life? Again, I think it all comes down to who you know, who you tell, and how you plan to explain to the Almighty Heavenly Father why you were sitting in two churches with opposing doctrines.

See I think the question is... how is anyone to "know"? I mean, I suppose it comes down to intellectual honesty. But I can't imagine the type of invasions of privacy and borderline frighteningly investigations by strangers it would take to discover if you have been "moonlighting" on your denomination. I mean, I can't imagine going to Church with a friend is going to get you tossed out of either "denomination" if someone casually observed it. I also imagine that if you were a non-LDS member you'd be welcome to attend church with your LDS friends for virtually ever without someone telling you "that's enough.. don't come back unless you get baptized." In fact, I'm curious how anyone except you and perhaps anyone you told would ever know about your "double" life? The only person you'd have to justify yourself to is God..

Thank you Dahlia... I'll seek that book immediately. I'd be interested in reading it, as a catholic considering conversion.

I've considered doing so... I'm not very involved in the Catholic church anymore, haven't been for years so I'm not sure who I'd ask, but I didn't really consider asking them because I really didn't care too much what the Catholic church thinks. I haven't been an active member for years, but only now are people expressing "concern" because I've been investigating the LDS church... in fact it seems like the only reason some people even seem to magically care all of a sudden is because I am leaving for something else and it's like they can't stand to lose anyone even if they did nothing to help convince me to stay. That and I just find much that I disagree with that they refuse to address/discuss and I have a hard time believing that the modern Catholic or Baptist churches (My family's churches, depending on which side of the family you look at) is the 'right' Church of God.. at least not for me or what I desire in my heart for my personal spirituality. Yes, sadly that's one of the solutions for my situation I'm humiliated to admit. I know it's a cowardly consideration. But you know... just was reaching for straws to find a tentative balance. I was thinking I could actively practice as a member of LDS and just go through the motions and let my social associates BELIEVE I'm a Catholic or Baptist or whatever makes them feel better. It's not elegant, but it's... well... it seemed like a possible solution.

I know this is going to be a controversial question. But I felt I should ask it. What are your thoughts on dual religions? What I mean is, is it possible for someone to be a member of more than one church? Is it allowable for example to be both a member of the LDS church and the Catholic Church? I know that there are some differences in church doctrines, traditions, and culture.. But could there not be a balance struck for an individual?

Thank you. I was just curious that if I marry someone and she passes away and I remarry (highly unlikely) then what happens to my original wife. But like you have said its probably speculative and not something to be concerned with. Thanks!