serapha

Snow... You can check my record..... I don't acknowledge any postings that are "nasties"... no matter what the subject content (for example, if the subject is "me") I told you that God has given me the grace to "rise above" that conduct. If you want my conversation, then act like you want an intelligent conversation. That's all I expect... e.g. (that means, example given....) see the book forum for 81 evidences. "That" is close to an intelligent conversation. I don't waste my talents, time, or energy on "nasties". God's given me better things to do with my talents, time, and energy. How about you? What's God given you? ~serapha~

Serapha, You wouldnt be addressing Snow instead of the issue would you? cause we both tho that would be wrong. Well if it is truly your intention to cause enough rukus to be banned, please lets save everyone the trouble and skip right to that. As your intentions still have not been made clear. Im not kidding. Spencer Serapha, You wouldnt be addressing Snow instead of the issue would you? cause we both tho that would be wrong. Well if it is truly your intention to cause enough rukus to be banned, please lets save everyone the trouble and skip right to that. As your intentions still have not been made clear. Im not kidding. Spencer Spencer, And which site rule have I violated? Is there a rule that says I can't ignore "nasties"????? ~serapha~

Hello ammon, I replied to the posting. I said just about the same thing that you did. I don't have to write a book if I can summarize a response in two sentences. ~serapha~

**sigh** another multiple account holder. Is that being honest? Well, I can relate. ~serapha~ This is the INTERNET, Serapha, multiple identities are to be expected. Besides, elderbell had to have two because his first one was banned. Ammon, I don't use multiple accounts. I just stand behind the one I have. I have a conscience. The Holy Spirit would tell me that using multiple accounts wasn't right, particularly when the site says... no multiple accounts. Don't you have respect for the rules of a forum.... just like the laws of the land? How about Romans 13 and 2 Peter 2 where you are told to submit to the governing authorities.... that doesn't apply to you? ~serapha~

Hi there! And please tell me where that prophetic rule is written and accepted as authorative and by whom. BTW... "usually" doesn't tell me that it has to be taken as "years" in that particular passage. That word in Greek is never translated as "years" anywhere in the KJV, whether prophetic or otherwise. ~serapha~

Are you serious? Oh, I'm never leaving this forum.... until I'm banned. ~serapha~

Well yes they do Trident. You are just interpreting them to mean that they don't. You earlier claimed, mistakenly, that there were no scriptures that talked about works and their necessity for salvation. You kinda ignored the ones I posted and now continue to act like they don't exist. Let try to not pick and choose what parts of believe and what to ignore. K. Diligence, patience, and enduring to the end is required to ensure our salvation: 2 Peter 1:4-10; 2 Peter 3:14-18; Heb. 12:1,7,14,15; Heb. 10:36; James 1:12; Mark 13:13; Heb. 6:15; Heb. 3:14; Rev. 2:7,10,11; Col. 1:22-29; James 5:7-12; 1 John 2:24-25. Why? Rom. 8:16-18; Rev. 3:19-21; Rev. 21:7; Heb.12:9,10; Acts 17:28,29 The words of Christ himself: His teachings show that obedience is required to obtain eternal life; there is no hint of "once saved, always saved" or instant salvation without works: Matt. 19: 16-23 (point blank: to obtain eternal life, keep the commandments); see also Mark 10:17-30; Luke 18:18-30 Luke 10:25-28 (again: keep the commandments to be saved) Mark 12: 28-34 (Christ teaches the two greatest commandments, and tells one who understands them that he is "not far from the kingdom of God") Luke 11:28 (blessed are they that DO the word of God) Sermon on the Mount Matt. chapters 5 to 7 (focuses on works, behavior) Matt. 5:19-21 (must keep commandments) Matt 5:48 (must seek to be perfect) Matt. 7:13,14 (the gate is straight and narrow) Matt. 7:21-23 (Must DO God's will; Christians who did evil will not go to heaven) Matt. 7:24-28 (those who do what Christ says are built on a sure foundation) Matt. 24:13 (endure to the end to be saved) - see also Matt. 10:22 and Mark 13:13 Matt. 12:35-37 (will be judged by our words, to be condemned or justified) Matt. 16:24-27 (we'll be judged by our works) John 8:31-32 (we must continue in the word of Christ) Luke 21:19 (patience is required to preserve our souls) Luke 21:34-36 (be cautious, avoid sin, to be counted worthy to stand before God) Mark 11:25-26 (we must forgive others to be forgiven ourselves) John 5: 28,29 (those that do good obtain life) John 14:15,21,23 (Christ teaches us to keep his commandments) John 15: 1-14 (we must bear fruit, keep commandments) Matt. 13:3-23 (parable of the sower: He warns that some receive the word and believe, but do not endure: will they be in God's kingdom? See Luke 9:24-26) Matt. 12:50 (must do his will to have a close relationship with Christ) Matt. 13:40-43 (parable of the tares: those in his kingdom who do evil are damned) John 12:50 (The Father's commandment is life everlasting) See also Luke 21: 19,34-36; Matt. 25 (esp. v. 31-46); John 3:5 Judged by works: Rom. 2: 4-11; Rev. 20: 12-15; Matt. 16:27; Gal. 6: 7-9; Rev. 22:12-14; 2 Cor. 5:9,10; Col. 3:24-25; John 5:28,29; Eccl. 12:13,14; 1 Peter 1:17; Psalm 62:12; Prov. 24:12; Rev. 2:23; 1 Peter 4:17-19. Repentance and obedience are required for salvation: Acts 2:37-38; Matt. 4:17; Acts 17:30,31; 2 Peter 3:9; 2 Cor. 7:9-11; Ezekiel 18:4,5,9,20-27,30-32; Ezekiel 33:11-20; Acts 26:20; Mark 6:12; Luke 24:47; Heb. 5:8,9; Rom. 2: 4-11; Prov. 4:4; Prov. 19:16; Deut. 6:17; Eccl. 12:13,14; Matt. 4:4; Deut. 8:3; 1 Sam. 15:22; Jerem. 7:23; 2 Cor. 10:5,6; Exo. 19:5; Deut. 29:9-15; John 7:17; Rom. 6:16; James 4:6-10; 2 Thess. 1:4-9; 1 Pet. 1:14-16; Matt. 5:48; Lev. 11:45; Lev. 19:2; Lev. 20:7,26; Matt. 5:19-20; Rev. 3:5,19-21; Joel 2:12,13; 2 Cor. 10:5,6; 2 Cor. 7:15; Phil. 2:8. Saved by Grace - but we access that Grace by obedience: Eph. 2:8; Rev. 22:12-14; Philippians 3:12-14; Heb. 5:8,9; Exodus 20:6; James 4:6-10; Matt. 5:7; 1 Peter 1:13-22. We must do, not just believe: James, Chapters 1 and 2; 1 John 3:18,19; Matt. 7:21-27; Matt. 25:31-46; 2 Cor. 5:9,10; Titus 2; 1 Peter 1:22; Matt. 12:50; 1 Tim. 6:17-19. Christians can fall from grace, so be cautious: Heb. 12:15; 1 Cor. 10:12; 2 Pet. 1:4-10; Heb. 3: 12-14; Heb. 4:1,11; Matt. 7:21-23; Luke 21:34-36; Phil. 2:12; Gal. 5:4; Heb. 6:4-6; Heb. 10:26-31; 2 Cor. 6:1; Jude 1:3-13; Col. 1:23; James 5:12,19,20. Sin can keep you out of heaven: 1 Cor. 6:9-10; Gal. 5:16-26; Eph. 5:3-7; 1 Thess. 4:1-7; Col. 3:5-25; Jude 1:14-25; Heb. 12:1-17; James 4:4; Matt. 5:22; Matt. 25: 31-46; Ezek. 18. We must grow and progress through obedience to be saved: 2 Peter 1:3-10 (heavy!); 1 John 2:4,5; Phil. 3:12-15. Now, snow, Unless you are Jeff Lindsay, you just committed a copyright violation according to the rules of this forum. ~serapha~ http://www.jefflindsay.com/faith_works_list.html

Yes, this is the RLDS line. Well, let me restate that. That was the RLDS line until the RLDS decided that we are no longer a "restored" church, and that God did not restore anything because He didn't have to. But, as I am a RLDS restorationist, we continue to hold to that belief. I realize that that is a couple of hundred years after Constantine, but the time of Constantine is when we feel that the true decline of the church started. We believe that the apostacy was complete when God removed his blessing from the church, and that happened about 570 AD. That fits into the timeline, also, of the 1260 years the church was in the wilderness (Revelations 12: 5 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore years.) What translation of the Bible do you use? Rev 12:6 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. IN Greek, the word is "hemera" and never translated as "years". ~serapha~

**sigh** another multiple account holder. Is that being honest? Well, I can relate. ~serapha~

Gathering Stones at Tabgha When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. (Mark 8:19-20) Isn't it amazing how accurate the Word of God is? When one reads the two verses above in the English language, one gets the impression that Christ is comparing the two miracles of multiplication. But somehow, the effectiveness of the passage has been lost in the translation from Greek to English. And here's why. Mar 8:19 When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many ** baskets** full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. Mar 8:20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many **baskets** full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. In verse 19, the word for baskets is "kophinos", and in verse 20, the word for baskets is "spuris." And what is the difference? That's the significant point that is lost in the translation. "Kophinos" is a small type of basket that was used by Jews when they traveled, something of a knapsack that could be carried on their back and which held a specific amount of measurement. In the 1871 commentary by Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown, the authors note: “The 'kophinos' was part of the luggage taken by Jews on a journey--to carry, it is said, both their provisions and hay to sleep on, that they might not have to depend on Gentiles, and so run the risk of ceremonial pollution.” It was a wicker basket made of twigs or branches particularly used by the Jews for carrying kosher food, and the capacity was equivalent to about two gallons or two-thirds bushel of food. (Vine's Expository Dictionary) And the significance to the reference of "kophinos"? The passage in verse 19 took place on the Jewish side of the Sea of Galilee. Now, in looking at verse 20, the word for basket is "spuris" which is a reed basket, which could be a lunch basket, but which can be much larger such as a hamper. In Gentile Damascus, Paul was lowered from the city wall in a "spuris" (Acts 9:25) Figure 1 http://www.barr-family.com/godsword/baskets.htm A "spuris" was the type basket that was favored by the Gentiles. A "spuris" signifies "something round, twisted or folded together" (connected with speira, "anything rolled into a circle;" Eng., "sphere"); hence a reed basket, plaited, a capacious kind of hamper, sometimes large enough to hold a man. Matt. 15:37; 16:10; Mark 8:8, 20 (Vine's Expository Dictionary) A "spuris" was measurable to six and one-fourth bushels, significantly larger than the measurement of a "kophinos". And the significance of the "spuris"? The feeding of the four thousand was on the "other side" of the Galilee, the Gentile side of the Sea where the use of "spuris" was the preferred basket over the Jewish "kophinos". When Jesus spoke the words in Mark, He identified the difference in the miracles of the multiplications, but man's simplification of the text took away the location (Jewish or Gentile side of the Galilee) and the difference of the abundance. For considering the size of the baskets, the abundance was greater in the Gentile miracle of multiplication (7 baskets x 6..25 = 43.75 bushels) than in the Jewish miracle of multiplication (12 baskets x .66 = 8 bushels). God's Word is so accurate if we allow it to stand alone. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Now, snow, to you the type of basket is insignificant. To me, the type of basket is very significant, as is the location of the miracles of multiplication (Gentile side of the Galilee or Jewish side) , the mosaic floor of the Church of the Multiplication (archaeological artifact) , the sea life of the Sea of Galilee including the different types of fish for each of the different miracles of multiplication (thank you, Mendel Nun) .... Each small, seemingly insignificant fact supports the biblical passage. If all the facts are undisputable, I have no reason not to believe the Word of God is truth, and that the miracles did occur. In other words, nothing disproves the Bible, if you look at the Greek, the Hebrew, the history, the archaeology, the literary works, etc... they all support the Bible. BTW... members of the CoJCoLDS's in archaeological research, cite this concept as... "complex correlations" ~serapha~

Seriously Serapha,What does archeology have to do with the central claims of the Bible, that the God of Abraham stands above all other gods, that Jesus was the Christ and that through the atonement man might be saved. I would identify that the land of Israel is identified as the "fifth gospel" because the land holds the truth as well as the gospels do. I would identify tht historical references from archaeology corelate the Bible as do archaeological evidences. For example, the Bible uses the term "basket" in the same manner for the feeding of the 4,000 and also for the feeding of the 5,000. but they are different words in Greek, and different types of baskets historically. It makes a difference when you know the type of "basket", and also the type of "fish" that is prevalent in the Sea of Galilee. I feel that you accept the generalities and dismiss the entire text. I look at the specifics, and stand in awe at what the Word of God holds. I'm going to attach one of my short articles to this posting for your reading pleasure. I think I must know something that you don't. If I were a Jew, I would be sitting precariously. I am a Christian, and "Bible Tales are Wilting"... doesn't hold water. Notice the first line of the text says... "probably"... shall I continue??? http://senrs.com/as_rabbis_face_facts,_bib...are_wilting.htm ~serapha~

AFDaw.... Thanks for the responses. I had been told previously by members of the CoJCoLDS..... that exaltation to Godship, aka becoming gods, was not a doctrine of the CoJCoLDS's. I see on today's forum that isn't "true". I will be asking those that gave me "wrong" information for an explanation. thanks again for replying. I will try to post another chapter tomorrow. ~serapha~

Hi there! Did anyone see Oprah today (Tuesday) ? ~serapha~

D&C 76:58; 132:20, 37 thank you very much, actually, you have made my day. ~serapha~

Hi there! B) I believe I can take the book of mormon and prove the same statements from the content of the bom, or the D&C... in fact. I am certain I could. ~serapha~

Hello et. al., If an "anti-mormon" is saved, then they are a Christian. If an "anti-mormon" is not saved, then they are not a Christian. Let me draw my sword and hatchet all those comments that indicate that being a Christian is based upon "actions". It's a two-edged sword, so it swings in both directions.... cleans house quicker that way. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: ~serapha~

**sigh** There is nothing in the book of mormon that teaches exaltation to godship. There is nothing in the official docrines that teach that principle. Now, I understand "precepts" which is building upon a foundation, which is what you have indicated. So, what is the foundation for the teaching of exaltation to godship? ~serapha~

this post is edited to remove the reference to "rodney's" post. ~serapha~

I see more than 5? it is my opinion by reading the above that the word "substance" was often used as a synonym for Faith. The Hebrew word for substance, y@quwm means... "living substance". I high-lighted on purpose "THAT" word, meaning the Greek word, which has a totally differenct context. Do you understand my statement now? I also said I am trying to learn... If an argument is presented that is able to "convert" one to the CoJCoLDS's, then that is an argument that I want to hear. I'm sorry that you have put me in a little box and indicated that I can't have a diversifed interest. I have a diversified interest in the Old Testament, the New Testament, family living, my secular job.... I have a diversified mind. Please, don't put in a "fenced-in" yard that restricts learning. ~serapha~

Help me, here.... Now this is the picture, I am painting, and perhaps you can provide the answer. I am standing in front of a group of fundamental, mainstream Christians, answering questions about the CoJCoLDS either in a church setting or a classroom... Someone says... "but they believe they will become gods!" and I say, "That is not a doctrine of the CoJCoLDS's." "but they believe they will progress and become gods... their prophets teach this" and I say, "But those statements made by the prophets are unofficial statements, and not those of the CoJCoLDS." "But their teachings materials teach that they will become gods through works". and I say, "but those teaching materials concerning exaltation to the position of godship that are used by the CoJCoLDS's are not stated in the doctrines, covenants, or disciplines of the CoJCoLDS." "then why do they believe that they will become gods?" and I say, "I don't know". Now, if you were me, how would you answer these questions? Before answering, please read.... Gospel Principles, page 302 "2. They will become gods." 1. "but they believe they will become gods!" 2. "but they believe they will progress and become gods... their prophets teach this" 3. "then why do they believe that they will become gods?" Now, make me a better communicator. ~serapha~

Hello Spencer, :) I will answer your question, but will you answer mine? What if the "scriptures" that you are reading, aren't true? Now... My interest in Bible archaeology is to know that there are archaeological and historical supports for the Bible. I have encouraged many people who were ready to "give up" on their faith because they didn't believe the Bible to be "truth" any more. I have a new brother in Christ since last week who had given up on the Word of God as being truth... 1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. If archaeology "proves" the people, places or actions of the Bible actually exist, then I intend to "hold fast" to that which is good. We would all be lost if we didn't believe the Word of God was truth. Christians are saved by our faith that Jesus Christ has redeemed our sins. And, I believe that the Word of God is absolute truth... every word. Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. That word "substance" is only used five times in the Bible. In other early writings, that word is relative to business documents, the foundation, the guarantee of the transaction., an intangible that is understood to be so certain that a transaction can be made. The "evidence" can be either a "proof" or a "conviction"... a certainty that there is proof of things not seen. How is faith proven in agreement with that text? Through an understanding of "good will" as applied to business. "Good will" is so certain that a monetary value may be assigned to it. An intangible that is understood to be so certqin that a transaction can be made based upon the reputation that the business has acquired. Faith is "the substances of things hoped for" on the basis of of the reputation of God. That reputation is reinforced by fact, not fiction. BTW, there doesn't seem to be any tendency to keep threads on subject, is there? So, if someone chooses not to answer a question, they just divert the subject of the thread ... aka ~red herring~ ?? ~serapha~

Hi there! :) You don't realize until it happens, but when you lose your mother, you find you have lost your best friend. http://www.llerrah.com/dreams.htm You're walking through a valley, but just as Psalm 23 tells us.... Yea, though I walk throught the valley. God never invites you to stay in the valley, but only instructs you to walk through. Plant a tree in your yard, something that will be a constant reminder of life and living... something pretty that will be blooming each spring like a dogwood or a cherry blossom. ~serapha~

Hi... all those high-lighted terms and phrases are all New Age theology. The relevance? It does make a difference where the "vision" comes from. ~serapha~

I must be in a world of my own. I thought the previous posting was heavy-laden with New Age theology. There's nothing about New Age that is "Christian". Let me go back and "highlight" for you. ~serapha~

And yes, I have spent time this last year, reading the history of the CoJCoLDS's, first a mormon perspective, then an anti-perspective, alternating studies.... goddess worship within the mormon church, the strong "right arm" of mormonism flexed in the FBI and CIA... finances... satellite and media purchases of the CoJCoLDS, the state of affairs in Utah, divorce and spousal abuse, child abuse. It's not just a religion... it's a whole different world from what everyone else in Christianity knows. ~serapha~