ElectofGod

I have decided there are two types of prophets from this discussion. Prophet: Someone who has received the testimony of Jesus and otherwards sealed by teh holy spirit of promise. They can prophesy in his name, have visions, dreams, and able to at some point converse with Jesus face to face as its expedient for him. (Unless that is part of being sealed by the HSoP?) prophet: Someone who has received their baptism by fire (conversion, change of heart, though to sing the song of redeeming love, gift of the holy ghost). These people are ALSO able to "preach","prophesy", "speak with the tongue of angels"... But have not been sealed up by teh holy spirit of promise yet. (3 nehpi 21:??) Does this sound fair? I can use exact scriptures if need be. Isn't a prophet someone who can prophesy? This is why I have two context's for them. Joseph stated a prophet is someone sealed by the testimony of Jesus. If that is the only type than "prophet" is just a member who can prophesy through the spirit.

Wow I re-read that statement. You are right. My answer has nothing to do with it. I thought it did.

It was the other persons statement but I was defining what the testimony of Jesus IS. What is the Holy Spirit of promise? As the quote above I quoted stated its the sure word of prophecy. THAT is to be sealed up unto eternal life (D&C 132:7, 26). Or am I jumping the gun here? I really don't know. The question is. Do we get this promise from our C&E or from the SC? I don't know.

I think the greatest test will be those who disagree so much over points of doctrine whether they can still get a long. LOL :)

Here is the full quote to not take it out of context. There are more direct quotes I think just can't find them at the moment.

The testimony of Jesus means your a prophet. The testimony of Jesus is your C&E at the minimum. (I have had no witness exactly what yet but for now think its C&E only) Joseph Smith stated in teh kindle edition of Words of Joseph smith. Now I don't know if I agree with people who say another prophet will come out from the authority of hte church, (The mighty and strong one/Davidic Servant) but I feel instead the church will collapse (major earthquake in SLC) and no-one will be around for awhile to run anything THAN the leaders left will get together to establish order. This will be the great TEST. But I choose not to speculate as it can go 1000's of ways. Infact manny of or leaders (if not all) have their C&E. Holland I am absolutely postive. Eyring I am too. Others are just more calm in their talk so I don't want to take their words out of context so won't speculate.

Its interesting to see how the concept of these people are ordained. We cannot know entirely where they came from or what line authority they did have. Our record was not a history but things of spiritual worth. Whats in the book of mormon was for our spiritual benfeit. So we should ask why did the Lord put it in there? What is he teaching us? Another interesting scripture I just ran into this past week. I am very interested to know how these prophets came about. We know this is mormon abridging the record he was reading already written. It gives another reason for having many prophets. How many is EXCEEDINGLY? Whenever people become a stiffnecked. He goes on in the next few chapters (and the entire book of mormon) defining what stiffnecked means. "hard to understand", is just one. Its even interesting to see how they were not just preaching but prophesying to the people. Anyone know missionaries stories of this? However I would not call missionaries prophets unless they have received the testimony of Jesus Christ. I don't know the answers just asking the questions. Even today the people ARE stiffnecked people and just as wicked as back than. The book of mormon almost never talks about the church very often, just the people around them. I feel the Lord may have hid some of these details for a purpose to get us to rely on the spirit. Maybe others have insight on this?

Just a reminder, we don't have to agree with him. But he is an anointed one if he is not lying. So we should seek to still love and respect others even if we don't agree with what he says. Back to doctrine. What is the testimony of Jesus? Favorite quote by Joseph Smith IF we have the testimony of Jesus, are we not all prophets? I have always found this interesting.

mikbone, great comment. We all find a different way to our heavenly father. Every personality is so different that some people need a direct bold approach. Others need a soft approach. Its beautiful how Heavenly father gives us someone in our lives to help us draw to Christ. The same person can and does rub wrong to others. But that is why they are sent to certain people and only them. I say if there is anything that upsets the individual about how Denver writes don't read Denver's books. I will say that about anyone. He is just a fool as he calls himself. The apostles and prophets will bring us closer to Christ if we will look and listen. They teach us everything we need for the milk of the gospel (occasional meat). Some do need a different approach than GC others don't. Others feel like "they are failing us" when they are not, they are just not understanding the teachings the way they should be. So Christ sends someone that CAN touch their hearts. I feel like you about Holland he is a very inspirational speaker. I say just stick to what the Lord speaks for us to do through the spirit. It will inform us what to do. BTW: "I know that the apostles have had their C&E.", How do you know if they have not written it? This is exactly what Denver was writing about. This is a sincere question, not trying to cause contention. A great trial for a C&E can be a personal close family member offending us... or loved one... It may not be pretty when we have the trial you talked about hehe. :S

This is the whole problem the past few pages. Its all context. This is why I said read the book because I was just as troubled when I read what you said. But your comparision of the HG and the sealing power is EXACTLY what I was getting at. That is what I think denver meant, IF he didn't than I don't know what he meant. But I think it is what he meant. Because he looks at things in a different manner, I think this is why he has a love/hate relationsship Anyways I think the past few posts have been able to state what I was not as well. Pheww I didn't teach too much false doctrine (especially last few pages where my context was completely different). Honestly took me two pages to figure out what i was getting too until I found that quote above. I knew what the answer was just not how to explain it. PTHG seems to be all about church history problems and why we shouldn't loose our testimony due to it. Surprised you are reading it. I'll stick to his books SC, Come Let us adore him.

I take no stance on this. I am just stating what Denver stated as I told Just_days I would find an answer for him. Just Days asked a question about denver. I was explaining the answer according to Denver not me. He asked how does the church not have the sealing power. I was explaining while the church has the ability to conditionally seal using the power, it does not have the functions of the Holy spirit of Promise. If it did we would NOT need the ratifications of the Holy Spirit of Promise for our temple sealings. 7 And verily I say unto you, that the aconditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead. (D&C 132:7). THIS power was not transferred to BY only the temple sealings (conditional sealings) was transfered. I think that is what Denver stated. (as Just days asked earlier, what power was he referring to) There are 300 pages explaining what this means. I am happy to discuss whether this is true. I am just posting Denver's stance.

BTW here is a statement straight from Elder Eyring on the church's sealing power. This is the answer. So this is the answer. The Holy Spirit of Promise is what "sealing power" is missing from the church. That part is given by God.

You don't have to tell me anything about Denver. I never heard of the guy myself until a month ago or two ago. What I learned was without the guy. I have not read a single book of his. Only have friends who know the guy personally and readers.

.

Correct. Though our context of "becoming as God" may be slightly different. Well nothing is required of us in this life. Its only an extra privilege to the ones who do receive it. I was only talking about the Fullness if Denver is stating something differnt THAN I DONT KNOW WHAT HE WAS SAYING. I should have said that from the beginning.

I probably shouldn't keep saying anything on this. I do not know very much about it. I should leave it to someone else who knows what they are talking about. I could be stating things wrong adn I do no choose my words very carefully. I usualy write than fix any problems later that I accidently wrote.

As for the Sealing Power question I am not entirely sure I will have to read on it to see if he is saying something different than what I am currently saying. I don't wish to speak for him. So I will speak what I believe after I read up on it a bit more. I THINK its referring to the fullness of hte priesthood because Sealing Power is another name for it. ITS DIFFERENT than the sealing power the temple officiators use. Thats my first instinct not certain.

Good so you agree with the fullness of the priesthood not being in the church. It is received from the temple ordinances. By being sealed up by the Holy spirit of promise. To receive our C&E. THAN we will have the fullness of the priesthood because its given to us by God.

I just showed you how we don't have the fullness of hte priesthood. I just PROVED it by showing its not confered on us. I am not deceived. It is given to those who have been obedient to their temple covenants. ONLY THEY have the fullness of the piresthood. Do leaders of the church have it. Yes but only if they too have conversed wiht the Lord through the veil. BUT not from the conferal of the MP.

All physical ordinances are symbolic of the spiritual blessings. 2nd anointing is a physical ordinance of this same concept. according to Brigham Young, the participant "will then have received the fulness of the Priesthood, all that can be given on earth."[11] Do you have to have your 2nd anointing to receive those blessings? No. The endowment is symbolic of it and tells us what to do to receive it. It is to receive your C&E. To be sealed up by the Holy Spirit of Promise.

Lets talk about the fulness of the priesthood. Jospeh Fielding Smith stated: This entire paraphage he talking about the fullness coming not by being confered to the MP but receiving it in the temple and through our faithfulness. Have you had your endowments? We must obey all the ordinances taught therein (covenants) THAN we will receive the fullness of hte priesthood. There is no other way. http://emp.byui.edu/jexj/new/talks/talks/JF_S%20Fulness%20of%20the%20Priesthood.pdf The temple means nothing without obedience. AFTER we are obedient the LITERAL blessings (spiritual) will be given to us. The act of going through it means nothing wihtout living up to our convenants. "Let him converse with the lord through the veil".

D&C 84:20 Therefore, in the aordinances thereof, the power of bgodliness is manifest. 21 And without the ordinances thereof, and the aauthority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is bnot manifest unto men in the flesh; 22 For without this no aman can see the face of God, even the Father, and live.

Wow, i as about to answer your questions but if you are going to ask a question based off one paragraph and think you understand what he was saying without reading 40 pages you are the one that is jumping to conclusions. Read what he says than make judgment. I don't judge everything Brigham young said because he told us God had sex with Marry or Adam was our God. Guess he was a fallen prophet. I won't read what else he has stated. See the problem? I used that quote to show there are Degrees or potions of MP but its all MP. If you need the MP to see God than how did moses get it if its given by God? If you need the MP to have angels minister how did he get it? Its the same problem. Where there is a question there is an answer. how did Joseph at age 14 see God? Its right in D&C that states God will not be manifested without the priesthood as well.

Ok I tracked down part of the answer. Let me know if this doesn't make sense. This is NOT denver speaking in the top half. Its just a mans statement to me in a message. To be sealed by the holy spirit of promise means the stamp of approval through that spirit. We have the right to bestow the gift of the holy ghost but does that mean they have it? No. They must become worthy of it to the remission of sins. It is the same with the sealing power. Its "preparatory upon our faithfulness". The literal Sealing power referenced by Denver is beyond this sealing power. Its to state "you have been sealed up unto eternal life" no conditions whatsoever. Any member and apostle will tell you the same. Its dependent upon our faithfulness to receive the final sealing of our lives.

Why don't you read his books instead of the blog. It would make more sense. Either way your Elijah question is found below. (40 pages, enjoy the read ) PDF Version Elijah Talk MP3 version Elijah Talk MP3 As for the Sealing power question, really should read the book. His blog does not explain it. I had the same question until I read it in the book and it made sense. Simple Google search I found someone else that brings up a similar issue (different argument with no answer though) Upward Thought: Elijah in D&C 110 and HC 4:207-212 When Denver talks about the Sealing power he is (if I remember correctly, someone more familiar could answer it better) talking about the fullness of the priesthood. This is NOT present in the Church today. Thats a direct quote from Joseph Smith quoted below. Yes Joseph Smith received the Sealing Power, Denver states that too. That is the fullness of the Gospel. The only way to get the fullness is to be ordained by God himself. Not from any man. This is a short answer. I may add onto it later.