HiJolly

I think everyone would have to admit we are really, really trying on this thread. HJ

Doesn't the Book or Mormon speak of the heathen? Seems to me that the Gospel says that those who have lived without law, will not be judged by the law. That law includes all priesthood ordinances. HiJolly

Finrock, protein expression makes a huge difference in the development of an embryo, fetus and even early infant. For example, it is proteins which determine the type of fur a cat will have. I recall an experiment in Texas where they cloned a cat with orange stripes. 5 clones, 2 were orange striped, 2 were gray striped and 1 was calico. Not everything is determined by DNA, but the DNA focuses and bounds the possibilities once proteins are expressed. I believe our sexual attractions are set due to a lot of factors, including protein expression and other things we have only begun to study. And maybe more. Certainly 'nurture' has a role as well, but I don't think its as 'strong' as the rest. HiJolly

ok, so we presume that "the law" as mentioned in Deut 31 was written not only on the scrolls of the priests, but also engraved in the Brass Plates, pre-600BC. Do you agree? Or are you saying that Nehemiah/Ezra wrote the law during or after the Babylonian exile? HiJolly

Well, 'create' is often used with 'out of nothing'. We know that we (and any woman Jesus might have married) have essentially existed from all eternity into all eternity. I think a lot of this has to do with our belief that God and man are both physical and of the same family, where most other Christians don't believe that at all. HiJolly

Of course we don't know. I *think* they were not written at first at all, but were orally passed down. Why do I think this? Because part of the law is borrowed (or inspired from) other Mesopotamian texts. The first writing, from everything we can gather of the past in those days, would have likely been on scrolls of skin. Only later were these book written down, perhaps as recently as 1200 BC. But again, I don't *know*. Probably scroll. Scroll first, then plates. I STILL don't get this whole "how could Lehi/Nephi know" etc. thing. It makes no sense to me. They lived there in Jerusalem. They could read and write. Laman was a relative. Everybody had brains and tongues visions and everything. Ok, maybe not TVs, but ??? HiJolly

6 months, no, and no petting, either. HiJolly

Yes, exactly. One of the many ways Lehi *could* have known, would be a conversation during a family reunion between said Lehi and Laban. Bingo. HiJolly

The answer is, I don't know. But I can think of several different ways they *could* have known. Just use your imagination. Apply probabilities if you wish, but all that will prove is that *you* don't know. HiJolly

Welcome. Here's a post I made here that I hope helps explain my journey: Personal Beliefs » HiJolly comes clean » LDS Social Network Also this is my Mormon.org entry: Hi I'm Cliff B | baptism of fire, zen, truth, love, joy, Mormon. again, welcome! HiJolly

They were literate, both of them. That's about it, without even pulling the revelation card. :) Oh, and I'm sure it wasn't the "old testament" (Tanakh), since that's a development from more recent times. But we read that the "five books of Moses" (Torah) were there, along with a lot of other prophet's writings. HiJolly

I think the JBS people I have met are mostly reasonable and 'good' LDS members. However!!! I could not stand their propaganda(in the form of pamphlets), it was unfair, biased and hateful. So I never joined. HiJolly

I really like what I'm hearing about your daughter. I think your summary of her view is excellent and accurate from an intellectual POV. Pragmatically it seems to us that she's missing a lot, but perhaps it's just because she doesn't realize all the physical good done in the world by many religions. Sounds to me like your daughter is in very good shape overall. We would of course like her to 'see the light' and become LDS, but these things have to happen on their own schedule. God's not through with her yet. HiJolly

And now for the science (or at least a bunch of relevant evidence): Professor Bill Bradshaw-Biological Origin of Homosexuality | Mormon Stories Podcast

I hope each of you can take the time to watch these videos of Dr. Bradshaw, who has retired from teaching at BYU but still has a lot to give. #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 I personally think there are at least 3 factors to homosexual 'feelings' 1. life experience, such as sexual abuse at a young age 2. genetic, protein expression, and other gestational influences 3. choice I think that #3 by far is much less an influence than the typical Mormon would like to think. Most gays simply *don't* get to choose, IMO. Please watch the videos. HiJolly

Some books lend themselves to an oral reading. But *not* this one. I have the hard copy and it is excellent at times, and a bit tedious at times. I think the tedious sections are required for the set-up and intro to future chapters. I've almost finished it. Hijolly

If so, then she is damning herself spiritually. Which can sometimes spill over into physical life, though not always, from my observation. Rarely do these people feel at peace with themselves. HiJolly

Good thinking! BTW, all thinking is subjective, even if you're being strictly rational. You probably know that. It matters because if your conscience concerning the question doesn't agree with what you say or do, then you don't have the power of faith. And if you don't have that, then not only do you not have power from on high, but you also are not entitled to the companionship of the Holy Ghost, and all the peace and gifts that can come with that. HiJolly

Hi there. HiJolly

Ok, I've read your posts. So what is it that you seek? Truth with a capital "T"? Or... HiJolly

I enjoyed the books and as a mystic, rather enjoyed the attack against insincerity and institutional fraud. Even if *all* organizations have it, including my beloved Mormonism. HiJolly

Welcome to the site. HiJolly

Indeed there is much to learn. Welcome to the site! HiJolly

That's what makes if fun, applepansy, figuring out what it is this time! HiJolly

Welcome to the site, Mel. HiJolly