LT04

I thought that the G-d had to stay in his / her mortal form. Didn't know they could come or go as they pleased. Thats interesting. Yeah its one of those who's on first whats on second kind of words I guess. I've seen the show got lots of neice's and nephew's don't think my in-laws TV get any other channels other then Nick & Disney. -LT04

Hey all, Xhenli brought to my attention that I could be possibly incorrect as to what the definition of Avatar is. I did feel comfortable starting this topic in the gospel discussion board b/c the way I understand it is that its reserved for LDS doctrine. An Avatar the way I was taught is a G-d or a demi-G-d that posses immortal power like Christ did in his life here on earth. The key difference is that when Christ was resurrected that made him different than an Avatar b/c an Avatar will always have a manifestation on earth via reincarnation. I have always undeersttod this to be an Eastern religon thing mostly Hindu. Just wondering what your thoughts are on this, -LT04

Note: I have never been to the temple as an adult only as a youth for proxy baptisms. That being said we can move onto business. Evert 3 months my ward rents a bus and they meet at the church. A few families volunteer to look after the kids of the parents who go at the church feed them lunch and pop in a movie and do crowd control for the ones not interested in the movie. (I would imagine) For us the Palmyra temple is about 2 hours away so its an all day thing the families who look after the kids generally get relived of their posts about half way. The ward activities coordinator odd as this may sound coordinates all this she does the following: 1 ) calls the temple sets up a ward temple day 2 ) hads out sign up sheets for the rear detachment in charge of children 3 ) makes the arangments for the bus 4 ) hands out a sign up sheet for couples, and individuals interested in going (due to the limited setting on the bus) I don't know if your ward/branch has the ability to copy this format but I have heard that a lot of people who wouldn't have normally gone that get caught up on what to do with the kids and that kind of thing througly enjoy it. Maybe you could suggest it to your EQ pres. or your bishop? thats just my two cents on the matter, -LT04

Jia, After I became active again I started to slip again and this was where I came b/c I wanted an outside opinion that was unfamiliar with my ward and I. I thought a new set of eyes could point me in the right direction. I think it was Rosie who told me I already knew the answer, I just needed the push. Your situation seemed a little to familiar, -LT04

Thats funny, your starting to turn to the highlited side. -LT04

Luke Air 2006, I am confused. (not hard to do by the way) Are you disagreeing with CrimsonKairos's method of supporting his opinion or do you disagree with his opinion? -LT04

I'm an engineer so attaching emotions to number combinations isn't something I do very often (the only instance I can think of so far would be our wedding anniversary then I feel like this guy he he) here's another example of attaching emotion to math "Is the glass half full or empty?" as an engineer I just see it as 50% bigger then it needed to be to do the job. If I remember correctly Friday the 13th is a day of good luck in Germany when allied soldiers found out they assumed any thing good for Germany had to be bad for the allies, thus led to the day of bad luck we see today. Another example of this would be blond jokes, that was the allied response to Hitlers superior race. I didn't mean to take us off topic, I don't have any quarrel with Friday the 13th, I know thats what you were looking for. So thats my two cents on the matter, -LT04

My intent wasn't to hurt feelings by any means. When I decided to come back to the fold after years of inactivity one of the first things I was asked (by the man who is now my bishop but thats besides the point) Why I didn't come back sooner. I felt a little hurt b/c it seemed to me like I'm here now where were you yesterday, last week, month or even year? I just felt like I was the only one who made an effort and was being criticsized for it. I know he meant well and it was an honest question that came across harsh. My post was intended to to receive our sister with warm reception and enlighten the rest how easy it is to be potentially hurtful when 1 ) you just have honest questions (like the one I illustrated above) and 2 ) a member just returning is already at DEFCON 1. Rosie like you said Jia (in my opinion) isn't here for instruction just an extended support system. I hope that set the record straight, -LT04

I was just thinking how combative people in this forum can be in regards to your statement that it would make you (Jia) feel like you were in an inspiration Ensign story or something then other people misinterpret what you meant and tell you to get off your duff.... then I looked over to the left hand part of the screen in the area that has the individuals information and I noticed on your Jia that your membership date to this forum is 6 APR 2007. This is a very important date to the church. The church believes this to be the date Christ was born and resurrected. Also this same date brought about the beginning of this dispensation via the restoration of the church. 6 APR 2000 was the day the Palmyra Temple was dedicated (where the sacred grove is if any one is isn't familiar with it) So here is your warm and fuzzy Ensign story. You felt compelled to become active and seek help and guidance on the very same day the church holds so highly for its new beginnings. On this note let us not contend one with another over petty strifes, but let us depart in peace filled with love and appreciation for one another in hopes this young sister of the church can find the courage, inspiration guidance and support she came here seeking from us. May G-d dissolve the contention that has arised here in an attempt to drive this young woman away and soften the harts of all this young woman comes across that they may be compelled to lend a helping hand and not cast a judgment unto her. I say these things unto to you brethren and sisters in the name of Jesus The Christ, Amen. -LT04

I agree that the children are mixed in with the other nations of the earth. We the children of earth have all the problems we can handle now as far as salvation goes without having to acomplish inter-planetary travel so the 12 tribes can all return home. What about this idea returning to the concept "G-d was as we are now, and we may become as G-d is now." What is our earth is the product of our G-d and his only begotten son. The worlds older than ours were created G-d's parents and grandparent.... The worlds that are to come will be created by the worthy inhabitants living here on this earth. Yes there would also be worlds created by our heavenly fathers worthy brothers, (I didn't say sisters b/c creationism from what I understand is a priesthood thing) cousins.... you get the idea. According to this concept that would make Jesus the Christ, and Satan unique to our would. The way I picture it Jesus and Satan are like twins you couldn't tell apart (making Satan that much more terrifying as an adversary do to his potential ability to possibly stand in to the less informed who don't know what to look for.) and as far as power and abilities they WERE equals. (lets not get confused here any more than we have to) (pardon the analogy I'm going to use it doesn't do the real thing justice it just helps me put things into perspective) Both Jesus and Satan were applying for the job of Christ of earth. If Jesus wanted the job or not (considering we can all agree Jesus would be more humble then the other option) I think is irrelevant b/c its obvious he was in the running. Also according to this theory that would make the position or title of Christ more like Governor / creator of Earth and its subordinate solar systems, stars, planets yada yada yada, this would all be made possible through the power of G-d that would later be bestowed upon the chosen applicant. Well we know how the interview process went down and who got the job and who didn't. Consistent with this hypothesis that would make the events and actions of people on every other world irrelevant to the day to day operations, salvation and out come of this one. The only thing we would have in common is we are all receiving bodies and being tested in hopes we can return home to our perspective heavenly parents. The grand council in heaven only presided over our piece of the pie, until the frame work was established and the vital roles were filled upon completion of its tasks it would be dissolved and stewardship of the outlines roles given to the proper people. From there every one including our selves knew the plan b/c we all had a vote as to how would happen. I do honestly think we all had a vote b/c in any version of the Bible I have read (and I have read several my wife is Catholic, my uncle is Anglican, and my dad is a Nazarene) in Genesis when they are creating the earth and for example create man it says "let us create him in our own image" suggesting there was more than one person. Yes I know this could be possibly misinterpretation, and reinterpretation and infinite number of ways, but this post is the gospel according to me. Let me know what you think, -LT04

Wow this topic sure seems to have taken a life of its own. I glad I asked the question. OK you guys / gals make a good point that Christ shouldn't have to go through his suffering over and over again, I can see your point that it would take away from his sacrafice. The reason I side with you is b/c there had to be thousands of people before Christ initially came (in person) to our world. I can't however, see what makes our world so "special" to have had Christ be born here. As far as the point that was made about why it has taken so long for Christ to return and the theory about his visiting other worlds in the mean time I disagree. Here's my theory we know in the war in heaven that 1/3 of the hosts left to follow the "devil" (I use the term loosely b/c Christ has his disciples cast out devils in the plural form of the word suggesting there is more than one.) so we know there are 2/3 of the hosts of heaven left needing to be born (aka receive a body) I always thought that not all of our heavenly brothers and sisters are here yet look at how many babies are born every day, the day children stop being born I think thats when we move into the "end game" phase of life here on earth. Another Gospel according to me theory: I have a theory that G-d endorses polygamy the way he has commanded us to (to be a celestial people) and has multiple wives, oddly we only hear of one (rarely but we do hear about her [ aka our heavenly mother]) I have also heard of "eternal procreation" (sorry I don't spell well) I would assume that to mean children other then the ones we have here on (our) earth. What if according to the eternal procreation principle we the children of the earth are all products of our heavenly father and mother, and another world would all be our eternal half-brothers and half-sisters. Let me know what you folks think. Thank you all for taking some of the heat about asking questions that the answers haven't been revealed yet. I just can't see why G-d made us so prone to ask why things are the way they are starting from a very young state, if he didn't want us to. Granted we have a duel nature but I don't think that applies here. We cover topics all the time at church that aren't essential to our salvation like 1 ) food storage, 2 ) word of wisdom (reguarding eating habits [moderation]) and I'm sure ther are many others I can't think of right now. If I don't have a year supply I can't see G-d casting me to hell for it. I have enjoyed this debate very much thanks for you input, -LT04

Yeah I enjoy the sci-fi show "Stargate: SG-1" and I suppose it could have been the spark that started the interest I have in this topic. I enjoy finding sci-fi shows who teach the gospel in subliminal ways the new Battlestar Galactica is a good point for this all the robots believe in one G-d and all the humans believe in the pagan ancient Greek higherarcy. CrimsonKairos, I don't doubt the power of Christ having the ability to traverse any solar system. It was brought to my attention when G-d spoke to Moses and gave him a run down of how things work and how the cosmos come together and so on he said there are many worlds like this, and at the beginning of each there was Adam. I made the suggestion of U-blar the Christ for two reasons. 1 ) In the book Jesus the Christ, Talmage explains the "Christ" is more of a title then a name hence Jesus THE Christ. If it were just a name Jesus Christ would suffice. 2 ) Some where down the post line some one said that the events that transpire on other worlds don't have the slightest impact on ours. So my reason for suggesting that Christ had to live and subsequently die on every world would be paramount to the salvation of every world for several reasons. The first would be to establish the priesthood. The second would be to establish the church. Third would be to give the inhabitants of that world a perfect example to follow. And the biggest reason would be so that when that world got to the stage when they found it a nessity to kill the savior, that world could have the same understanding we do of how Christ died for our sins. (not that we can ever fully understand but you get the point). That being said do you agree or disagree? If you agree is the Christ of our world the same Christ on other worlds? So would this make Christ an Avatar? Its my opinion that the Christ here is the same Christ every where. Unfortunately for him its nessisary for him to live and die on every world. Thus his sacrifice is that much greater and gives him the additional title of "only begotten son" making his presence on every world unique, thus additionally raising his esteem. Now that I have explained my personal beliefs on the good guys lets explore the bad guys. I believe that Lucifer as he was called before his expulsion from heaven is THE bad guy. I don't believe that there is one for every world. So to some degree Christ and the former heavenly spirit known as Lucifer are equals and G-d himself is the moderator giving and taking power from each side as he sees fit contingent upon the dispensation the the world in question is at. I don't think Christ is an Avatar b/c by the meaning of the word when he died he would have to be reborn in a mortal form wile maintaining his immortal abilities. So what do you guys / gals make of all this? -LT04

I'm not a parent but when my wife and I were dating I never would have considered spending the night. After we announced our intentions of marriage I did spend the night a few times b/c the winter weather was bad (just in the month of JAN 07 we got 112 inches of snow) but even then I slept on the couch with her stinky dog, wile she was upstairs in her room. That suited me just fine. I think thats b/c we are in a crock pot relationship not a microwave one. What I mean by that is crock pots are for the long hall, microwaves are designed for instant gratification. -LT04

Yeah thanks for the advice, we have covered a lot of ground so far. I have also found that when I ask questions when her and her older sister are together they tend to remember things off each other. I got hours of tape to compile about her life stories, but I feel complied to get every tid-bit of knowledge out of her. We both seem to enjoy the time together, for me its b/c I'm a FHC worker and an amateur historian, for her she enjoys the time with some one to talk to. (she has been getting lonely). What I was more specifically looking for were major events in history like DEC 7, 1941 Pearl Harbor, JUN 6, 1944 D-Day. Events that are well known on a national scale. I have already covered things like graduations, weddings, those kinds of things. -LT04

Wow a lot of info to absorb here. It feels like drinking off the fire hose. Ben, Thanks for the article its awesome, and no never been to the temple. Rosie, Your references are what first peeked my interest on this topic. I think the thing that made me most skittish about this topic was most people in my ward here were formerly Catholic. They all seem to be of the same opinion that the seeds of doubt were first placed when they had questions and no one had answers. I think your right that its not what the army would call "mission essential" information, but neither is reading the work and the glory books. They are just there as an auxiliary of recreational enjoyment that LDS members choose to partake in. I think the quantum macanics of church doctrine are more up my ally. I think it makes perfect sense that G-d was in our shoes once. Wouldn't that explain the wrath he showed in the old testament and how over time he became more and more compasionate? To me I looked at that to mean our G-d was gaining experience is his current calling. Jason, I understand its not like I said "mission essential" to our salvation. None the less G-d has made us a curious animal. It was once explained to me by a professor from BYU like this, information regarding the gospel can be considered like a car. Some of us are more familiar with it, some us can change the oil, and the brake pads others just seem more comfortable with putting the key in and going and have no business under the hood. I'm not emplying your the later I just think I have a good basic understanding of why things are the way they are and just want to move on to the advanced course so to speak to keep my interest. CrimsonKairos, Alright riddle me this, did Christ have to die on every one of those worlds? Thanks for the reference. A-train, I must of read what you posted a million times but it never jumped out at me the way it did when I read your post. As far as the temple goes my bishop stake pres. and I have come to the understanding that if I don't feel worthy or ready regardless of me having my temple recommend I shouldn't go yet, that maybe the lord will have me feel ready in his time. Rosie, I understand its "playful banter" (to quote the movie "The Increadables") I think what I wrote to A-train's response is fitting for your answer as well. Xhenli, Thanks for the reference. I guess some times I fell like all the valleys, islands, desserts, plains and forests have been discovered so scripture and a greater understanding of G-d and his ways is the only frontier left. I have been to Alaska "the last frontier" state, got to tell you they got a Wal-mart so they got it all. "Truth is a sphere" as the saying goes and all the facts that make up that sphere are connected. So if you have ever watched the TV show jeopardy they aren't answering random pieces of information they are over the course of many seasons of TV programming filling in the sphere. Does that make any sense? (I tend to ramble) CrimsonKairos, So if Christ is Jesus the Christ here (Earth) is he / could he be U-blar the Christ on another world? Thanks for the input again. You'll teach me to ask any thing other than a yes or no answered question even if I have to type all my fingers off (he he). Now I'm going to wrap my brain around the reference material all y'all (no I'm not from the south I was in the Army) gave me, thanks again, -LT04

Ben, I just think you hit the nail on the head, and made it funny. -LT04

My grandmother-in-law (I don't think there is such a title but there should be its very descriptive) celebrates her 90th birthday this week. She and I have set up times for me to interview her about her life stories, acomplishments, and other various things that she recalls. What I have found works the best is is giving her a context and letting her go to town filling in her piece of the pie as to what her role to that was. I have been trying to find a list of major events of the past 100 years some where on the internet and I'm meeting with stiff resistance. I sure if I sat down and thought about it I could make one my self, but I don't see a need to reinvent the wheel if its already out there. A lot of the events I have now are all depression, WWII, what it was like in the cold war era and so on. Well I think all these things are depressing didn't any good milestones of the human race occur and I just missed them. Any input you may have I would be very thankful for, -LT04

I don't think this topic is taboo but it deffenitly isn't talked about. From what I gather there are many worlds with human life on them. The Prophet Larenzo Snow once said some thing to the effect We are now as G-d once was, and if we are righteous we will become as G-d is now. I have heard this quote more from the hostile forces apposed to the church then I have from people in the church. The answer I get most to questions about this concept is "you need to go to the temple!" well I choose not to go b/c I don't consider myself worthy. I maintain a current temple recommend b/c my bishop says that if I answered his questions truthfully I should have one, but for personal reason I choose not to go. My big question is: is the above statement is correct LDS doctrine? If so is Jesus the Christ of only our world or all of them? Then on these other said worlds do the "key mortal players" maintain their names or could lets say the first male on one of these other worlds have another name besides Michael, Israel or Abraham? I'm just trying to understand to finer points of LDS doctrine it just seems odd I can't find many answers. I mean yeah a lot of things that are unique to Mormons are considered sacred, but for other points where ever the LDS church goes it doesn't seem to mind our beliefs are not always crowd pleasing and have tendency to upset the town folk. So here is my poll: A ) Is this a topic better left alone? B ) Am I crazy? C ) Will the LDS HQ dispatch men in suits all with the name Elder Smith to come get me in the night? D ) There is an answer out there -LT04

I'm suprised that this was even a topic for discussion, after reading so many words who / what Micheal's role is in the grand sceme of things. -LT04

Maybe your right. I'm skittish b/c the Fire dept I work for now is footing the bill for school, I have a contract with my FF Battalion that if I choose to leave I have to reimburse them. This school isn't cheep. I'm lucky where I am now b/c a lot of dept.'s won't take you unless you have so many credits toward your FS degree. (this is b/c they have such a high volume of applicants they have to raise the bar to get a manageable number). But I guess even if I'm not moving in the right direction at least I'm moving right? -LT04

I can't breath, I can't breath stop, stop.... That there is funny I don't care who you are, bravo -LT04

Don't think that I'm bitter to the Army I was a soldier and proud of it, I just think that the New York State Troopers have a better force for what they do then the US Army has for what they do. Here's why: Typical time an Infantrymen spends in training before they get to a unit: 8 weeks basic, 8 weeks AIT total 16 weeks. Typical time a NYS Trooper spends in training before they hit the streets: 26 weeks In the Army you can pick any job skill you want / they have openings for. In the State Troopers every one starts out a street cops then later down the road they can apply for auxiliary positions (by that I mean any thing other than street cops) . In the Army I was sent a soldier who had 3 felonies before he enlisted all he had to do was get a wavier. In the State Troopers ha ha ha are you kidding me. In the Army you don't have to be a US citizen. In the NY State Troopers you can't apply unless you are a US citizen and a resident of NY State. If a soldier gets a DWI / DUI (or any other combination of letters starting with D) s/he will push for a article 15 under the UCMJ so it won't show up on their record when they get out. In the State Troopers gets a DWI /DUI ha ha ha your career is over. In the Army if you hit your commanding officer you get an article 15 two rank reduction and get back to work. (saw it happen several times) In the State troopers again you just made a career ending gesture. In the Army to qualify with a rifle they shoot 20 rounds from a "fighting position" (aka a foxhole so you know what I'm talking about) and 20 more rounds from the "prone unsupported firing position" (aka laying down). To qualify with a pistol as a State Tooper they fire standing up like they would in real life against a hostile target not resembling anything the Army does as far as qualification goes. When I went to Afghanistan I >>> NEVER <<< I repete >>> NEVER <<< fired a weapon laying down or in a "fighting position" it was always standing and on the move, but none the less the the Army said I was qualified to make war with my M4 based on an obsolete qualification test that doesn't reflect the way we currently fight a war. So as far as that goes the average state trooper is better trained to do my job with an M4 than I was as a soldier, b/c for his to be allowed to get near it he had to fire it in a standing position. I know a soldier who went to his sergeants house after work one night set his truck on fire in the garage got 4 months credit for time served went to Fort Leavenworth for 16 months of his 5 year sentence and got out with a dishonorable discharge for "good behavior" then joined his home state's national guard and got promoted from a PFC to a Sergeant for his experience in the field. Now maybe I'm by-ist (not sure how to spell that) b/c I saw a lot of bad eggs in the army, and I'm sure the State troopers have their warts as well, but come on is there any question as to who is better? If some one could point me in the right direction I would be very thankful. -LT04

In my Patriarchal blessing is tells me to "...progress in my formal education, so I may be guided to that field in which to concentrate preparation for my profession....." I think that most people today don't work in the field they have a degree in but I'm done with my AS degree in Engineering Science and an AA degree in "Individual Studies", and am currently working on my 4 year degree in Fire Science. At this rate I'll have more degree's than a thermometer and still be no closer to my "profession" then I am now. I have worked in a slew of jobs ranging in various fields including Life guard (high school) ,EMT, Soldier A ) Supply Sergeant, B ) Combat Engineer, Geodetic Surveyor, administrative assistant for the Nevada County sheriffs office, firefighter, Carpenter, equipment operator, I even worked at a nuke plant. the list goes on and on I feel like G-d waits for me to stay in each place for about a year then says "nope not this one, keep moving" I would like to gain some ground in one occupation or at least in one field instead of feeling like a migrant worker all the time. Any takers for advice here? -LT04

I don't think you can get excommunicated for inactivity b/c you didn't do anything. (sorry that was a bad joke) I know how you feel you scared that now you "know to much" now you can't cut ties that easy if you wanted. Oh did I go through that period. I came to the conclusion that I need to be where I can do the most good. I decided this place might not even be in the church. After an investigation that took more than a year to complete I ended right back where I started on the bench at church. Sorry to hear you got sick I hope you get better soon. Lets just shoot for next week then, huh. Good luck and G-d bless. -LT04

Wow, I only posted this topic 16 hours ago and I have come back to a novel. The big question I have been asking is what should I do as far as my career and church callings. Somehow I get the impression they are connected. Don't ask me how the church doesn't own any assets in Northern New York like it owns back in Utah, California or Idaho. Here my stake center is 90 miles away. So unless I move thats not a likely answer but I don't get the impression I'm supposed to move ether. In the end I think my answer is "do what you think is right and I'll let you know if you screw it up." Well thats great he has that kind of trust in me but couldn't I use this time wile I'm waiting for what ever to happen to prepare? You guys / gals were so helpful before maybe you could riddle that thanks for your help, -LT04