Doctor Steuss

You assume I had any to begin with.

Oops... Thank you for the correction. Credit is needed where credit is due.

"By 1843, the temple’s full import and design seem to have crystallized in the Prophet’s teachings. The doctrines of sealing and of becoming kings and queens, priests and priestesses were often discussed. Joseph Smith taught that “except a man and his wife enter into an everlasting covenant and be married for eternity, while in this probation, by the power and authority of the Holy Priesthood, they will cease to increase when they die; that is, they will not have any children after the resurrection,” 31 nor can they obtain the highest degree of the celestial glory. (See D&C 131:1–4.)" (“The Restoration of Major Doctrines through Joseph Smith: Priesthood, the Word of God, and the Temple” )

Don't feel bad... I tricked myself for a while.

Sometimes I wonder (perhaps heretically) if in his zeal to restore “all things,” he may have restored some stuff that wasn’t meant to be…

I have an Ensign article somewhere that is different people with mental health problems sharing their stories and what has helped them. I'll see if I can find it tonight (finding it in paper form will help me find you a link to the online version). Edited to add: You're not alone, and yes, it is possible to live a full and healthy life... even when you know the dark night of the soul. Hang in there. I wasn't able to find the exact article that I wanted to share with you, but hopefully these will help... Jan Underwood Pinborough, “Mental Illness: In Search of Understanding and Hope,” Ensign, Feb 1989, 51 Dawn and Jay Fox, “Easing the Burdens of Mental Illness,” Ensign, Oct 2001, 32 (This is a really good one, IMO).

I have an Ensign article somewhere that is different people with mental health problems sharing their stories and what has helped them. I'll see if I can find it tonight (finding it in paper form will help me find you a link to the online version). Edited to add: You're not alone, and yes, it is possible to live a full and healthy life... even when you know the dark night of the soul. Hang in there.

I hope the above was tongue-in-cheek.

There goes the neighborhood. Now there's a real doctor.

Bart Ehrman’s books are probably going to be your best "one source" stop for this sort of thing (I particularly like The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission, Corruption, and Restoration although most people I know like Misquoting Jesus).Bruce Metzger (in "Manuscripts of the Greek Bible: An Introduction to Greek Paleography" on page 74) talks about the “Fool and knave…” thing. I’m sure you can find an online something-or-other for it. Kerry Shirts has a little compilation here on the coruption of scripture. And this is a really good resource showing that despite the errors, etc., the reliability of the New Testament text is pretty darn tootin' good. Hope these help.

I don't know if you have a DI (Deseret Industries) in your area, but if you do, you might want to stop by and see what they have available. The books are usually only $.50 - $2.00. Another source (one that I love) is this. Here's some listings for JS: An American Prophet.

I am bipolar type II and also have mild schizophrenia. All of my friends and family know because they are my safety line. Your friends are going to be your safety line, and as such, it is beneficial if they know. There is nothing to be ashamed of. Tell them the same way you would tell them about any other health problem. You could even give them a copy of this to help "break the ice."

You've got the right guy. He was a member of ex-Mormons for Jesus for a period of time (and comments about how few of the members were actually "ex-Mormons.") The shelf-life of an LDS book is usually pretty short. However, I did recently see several copies of Peterson and Ricks' book Offenders for a Word... at Deseret Book here in Vegas recently. They also had a copy of A Different Jesus?.

It's available through Amazon if you are never able to find it again. To date (despite the author's, ummm... interesting history) it is one of my favorite apologetic books. There were a few things I took issue with (such as the mock dialogue at the end), but overall it's a nice little collection of interesting tidbits.

Evensen in Gainsayers edits Cyril's writings to make the similarities very apparent. Although I haven't been through the temple, a friend of mine who I read the pertinent passages to was rather speechless afterwards (and at first thought that I was reading from an "anti" book) -- anecodotal, so take it for what that's worth.

I tend to read that verse as an emphasis on G-d's grace, not an emphasis on us, or our part. by grace that we are saved, after all we can do After all we can do, it is still grace that saves us.

Faith (or Greek "pistis") has been a topic that I have been trying to fully grasp for quite some time now. I'll share a few of my thoughts and findings. I don't know if they will help or hurt, but here they are. First... In the Arrian's Anabasis (which is an account of Alexander the Great that was penned around the first half of 200 CE) there are interesting little pieces in which the Greek pistis is used (actually, the translation is what is interesting). In the account, there is the following little lines (this is from the LOEB Classic Library edition): PISTIS ES DAREION DE PISTOUS EINAI DAREIW In both cases (and in all other instances where it uses pistis or a derivative), it is translated as "loyalty" and not "faith" as we would assume based on our heritage of relying heavily upon the King James translators. There is also a Hebrew equivalent ( emunah) which is often possibly mistranslated and misused (or misunderstood) as well. And, if I remember correctly, Gaye Strathearn should be publishing a paper soon on the Greek phrase “faith in Christ” in an upcoming fetschrift for Robert J. Matthews. Here’s a bunch of technical mumbo-jumbo also that may (or may not) help. This is the very technical entry for pistis from Liddell & Scott: Here’s a short etymologically of “faith.” It’s hard to tell what exactly the KJV translators had in mind when they used “faith,” but based on my (limited) research, I would lean towards it having a connotation of “duty” (much like Arrian's Anabasis renders pistis as “loyalty.”Basically, “faith” is much more than just “belief” IMO. It has a connotation of action on the part of the person that has it. And according to the Lectures on Faith, it "is the moving cause of all action" (Lectures on Faith 1:10). Hope this helps… at least a little.

GAIA: Not at all -- Here is the original post, which gives a lot of the background info, references and quotes (including, i must admit, one whose accuracy is currently at issue, whether it was quoted correctly; i'm in the process of checking that out with the original JD -- If you happen to have access to the JD, please do check the quotes for accuracy) , including the scriptural referenes that do (seem to) support the doctrine - http://www.ldstalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...=10005&st=0 Post # 1; And Post # 12 is the "explanations" post which addresses several of the most oft-repeated questions/ issues with the doctrine, inncluding the one about Michael-Adam being a PH office ather than a proper name, like "Christ" or "God", and the "death" of Adam -- Blessings -- ~Gaia Groovy. Thanks Gaia. BTW, JoD is available online here.

I believe I missed that, but it sounds fascinating. I’ve never heard of “Michael” being a priesthood office (or at least I don't believe I have... my memory fails sometimes though). In a way I suppose it makes sense based on the roles of individual angels and their governing roles within Enochic literature. Mind hooking me up with a link to the specific post?IMO, there was something deep in Brigham’s speeches. It’s possible he was trying to explain how Adam came to have a physical body. It’s possible he was trying to explain Adam’s relationship with both us and G-d the Father. It’s possible there was something much deeper altogether. But, based on his sermons as a whole, I don’t think he was teaching the so-called Adam/G-d theory/doctrine.

I believe there's something within the Masonic Enoch legend that might fit. IIRC, there was a treasure that Enoch buried that was to only be regained by an Israelite, and it would be unatainable (perhaps "slippery"[?]) to all others. Perhaps someone more knowledgable with Masonic Enoch lore might have a reference (it was a long, long time ago when I read it).

There you go. And Brigham Young differentiated between G-d the Father and Michael in a few sermons. This is why I think that Adam=G-d the Father is too simplistic an explanation for Brigham's words and doesn't take all of his teachings into consideration. You would be correct. I imagine He has had, and will continue to have the same identity for the eternities. However, we might actually know His "true" name in the CK (who knows, maybe it will be the Schemhamphoras and we'll spend the majority of our time just trying to learn how to pronounce the 216 letter name [joking... maybe]).

Given the people who acted as editors (and who was initially approached about the subject), I think that it's probably pretty close to being "trustable."

Hi Annabelli, D&C 107 (in particular verse 54) might help shed a bit of light on this. Michael was the pre-mortal Adam (at least in regards to LDS theology). We were all "angels" at one point, and we still are to an extent (refer to Psalm 82:6 -- quoted by Christ in John 10:34). Outside of apocryphal texts, I am unaware of anything that has Michael appearing to Adam. There is a wealth of examples where Michael meets Adam in various apocryphal texts, but I don't know of anything within the LDS canon.

It appears Gaia has come to the right place because many posters here like to debate. M. I would like to debate whether or not people here like to debate...

Changing (and hopefully growing). I've been reading some of Blake Ostler's views (in particular I just finished reading his [for the fourth time] article in Element: The Journal of the Society for Mormon Philosophy and Theology on "Re-vision-ing the Mormon Concept of Deity") lately, and they have caused me to have to do some re-examining of my beliefs of what exactly "god/G-d/God/etc." mean(s) as well as the term "Godhead."