Lost Boy

Right...

You don't need to redact. I am pretty full of myself.

Sorry, I don't know exactly how... I wish I did. That will have to wait. Went back and fixed it.

Faith that it didn't happen? No, it doesn't take faith to believe it didn't happen. Consider this. God does not lie. The evidence abounds that there was no global flood. If there was, there would be plenty of evidence. As there isn't any either there was no flood or God covered it up. To me, covering it up is akin to lying.

So because I don't believe the flood story nor the creation story, you think I deny his power? I can live with that. I do believe God created the universe. I don't know exactly how, but I am pretty sure it was not over the course of a few days. That too would not make any sense.

I can't help you there. At some point hopefully you will understand a bit more about how God operates. But until then you can think of me as you wish.

Did you consider that the matrix could have just been a sub matrix of a sub matrix. No point in worrying about it. I know I am happiest while living the gospel. That is sufficient.

You seem to think I deny the power of God. I do not. Not in the least. You have not grasped a thing I have said. I said God uses mostly natural means to accomplish his miracles. This is not denying his power. In fact it speaks volumes about his power. And to me all the more impressive. I don't have a scientific explanation for feeding the masses. Perhaps one of the few times that there isn't a natural means behind the miracle. But consider this. The people that partook of the food did not view this of proof that Jesus is the christ. Most only came back the second time for the free food. Miracles don't prove to us there is a God. We still have to have faith. I doubt that you will accept any of this, but whatever. I deny the flood not because I don't think God has the power. I deny it because it does not make any sense. Like Santa.

You clearly do not understand the difference between evidence and proof. The pharisees did not have proof, they had evidence. They did not reject Jesus out of their faith. They rejected him for lack of faith. what is written in the Book of Mormon is evidence not proof. If it were proof, everyone would believe. Scratch that. Everyone would know that there is a God. that certainly is not the case. You can keep believing there is some science that backs up the flood, but you will be as wrong on that as you are with your understanding of evidence. I believe God leaves us plenty of evidence, but it still requires faith to believe in him. Proof removes the need for faith. But you are unwilling to understand this.

God: Noah, what did you go and feed the jackalopes to the lions for? Now all we have to remember them by are these dumb post cards.

It is a good thing that they had hundreds of cattle and a ranch hand to feed them on the ark. What did the lions and tigers and bears eat? where was all this food stored. cattle go through hey like there was no tomorrow. What did they drink? did they have a desalinization plant onboard? Many animals have very unique diets... such as the great panda. Did Noah go out and get fine cuisine for the pandas on board? What did Noah eat after he got off the ark? And what did the animals eat? The vegetation would have been destroyed by the floods. It would have been months before there was vegetation for the animals to eat and those lions and tigers and bears are getting mighty hungry...

The bible account states that it rained for 40 days. And then it wasn't until several months later that they found dry land. The tops of the mountains. I suppose you can pick and choose what parts to believe. I guess that is what I do.. I believe in Noah. I think he built a boat and took some animals along with him. I think there was local flooding and Noah survived. And to Noah the whole world appeared to be under water.

I disagree. The ark according to wikipedia was around 40k cubic meters. The Harmony of the sea is around 1.5 million cubic meters. about 35 times larger than the ark. it is capable of handling 5000 passengers and a huge staff to accommodate. Say the ark only had 10k animals. There were only 8 people on the ark to take car of that many animals. They would be able to care for roughly 1500 animals per day. That means the animals would only get attention once a week. Yeah, I don't think that works. "Your facts" still remain and they boggle the mind.

See, I can accept that. Believe in a flood, but don't know how it happened. To me that is cool. But trying to explain the flood using some weird pseudo science when really science doesn't support it at all is just nuts to me. Believe it happened and leave it at that. Or be like me and just don't believe the bible account at all. I don't deny the power of God, I just don't think that is what he would do.

My whole belief is that God does not leave proof of himself. We are to have faith. Proof of his existence is the enemy of faith. Therefore I don't believe we will ever find proof of his existence. I believe God created the universe in an orderly many obeying the laws of nature that he established. How can you say it does not defy scientific analysis when you don't know the science you think it follows?

Sure, but a global flood should leave evidence globally. where is it?

You might not want to speculate on hydrology too much. If a river hits a bend, the water does go up hill a little. but that is all, it doesn't have the momentum to go any higher. Certainly not over a mountain. Water has to flow downhill unless acted upon by some other force.

Ok, lets forget about Ararat and get back to the basics of the story. The story said the water covered the mountains. No where does it mention a Pangaea, It just says mountains. The tallest mountain on Earth is Everest at 29,000 ft or so. The bible doesn't say the mountains shrunk or were modified... just says the rain rained until it covered the mountains of the Earth. Doesn't mention continents breaking apart and moving about. Just rained. So where did the water come from and where did it go?

You have no idea if the Mount Ararat that Noah landed on is the same as the one in Turkey. Genesis was written a thousand years after Noah was supposed to have lived. Moses was the one that wrote Genesis. And Moses lived a 1000 years after Noah. I think there is a good possibility that the Mount Ararat that was mentioned may not be the same mountain we know today.

According to current scientific understanding, the universe is over 13 billion years old. The Earth is over 4 billion years old. Evidence that we can see from Earth points toward a creation that took a long time. And I can certainly accept God creating the Earth this way. News alert!!!! I don't believe the Earth was created in 6 days either..... Lost Boy is probably going to hell now. Just rejected the bible story of Noah and the Creation. Certainly it doesn't take a modern mariner 10 months to cross the Atlantic, but if you are on an ark being blown to and fro in the middle of the Atlantic, it is easy to think that God could keep them out there that long. And you say the flood does not defy scientific analysis.. go ahead and give me the science that it is not defying.

You can believe in a global flood that defies all scientific analysis and then you limit the ability of an ark to travel from N.A. to the middle east in the coarse of 10 months? I am not sure any explanation from me would be help you out there. I can certainly conceive of a local flood and of a ship making it across the Atlantic. I could even see the wind pushing it there. A flood deep as the mountains are tall? Where did the water go? Couldn't have flown into the ocean and the ocean would have been at the same elevation. It couldn't have just evaporated. The atmosphere doesn't hold that amount of water.

It is not just geology, but animal diversity, etc that just doesn't jibe. The number of animals noah could have had on the ark was quite limited compared to the diversity that we have today. There are 60k species of vertebrates, 1.2 million species of invertebrates. How did Noah take care of all of them? How did he get them all on the ark? The ark would have had to be big. Say it took Noah 5 minutes per species to get them on the ark and in their appropriate location. That would mean he could load about 300 animals/day. This would take over 200 days just to load the vertebrates. What did the lions and tigers and bears eat after they got off the ark? if they ate any of the species, that species would go extinct. So much that doesn't make sense. I think believing in the flood is fine. However, trying to back up your belief in the flood by using science is not a wise idea. There have been thousands of good Christian geologists in the past and I would assume all have looked for evidence. Nada. A few papers that suggest a localized flood. That is all.

I tend to find God's miracles are generally through acts of nature, not that that lessens the power of the miracle, but typically through some natural occurrence. If the flood were some natural occurrence, then there would be some left over evidence. But there isn't. There is evidence of local floods, but not of a global flood. In the end though, I doubt that one's salvation will hinge on the belief in the flood.

Interesting. I admit I skimmed it a bit, but didn't see any geologists mentioned there. Was there a flood? Many of our former religious leaders thought so? Were they right? I don't know. One thing is for certain, the physical evidence is not there. One other thing. The leaders did not really seem to care to venture out on how the flood occurred.

I would hope that there are fewer than 1%. And my guess would be that they work for evangelical colleges. I am hoping BYU does not employ them.