Lost Boy

You misunderstood what I was trying to convey. You saying that you had visions is something that cannot be corroborate. And therefore cannot be accepted as proof. And if you are occasionally wrong, that further weakens your testimony of seeing visions of the future.

I don't know of any proof that there was a pillar of fire. Being written in the Bible is not proof. The seagulls were bulimic. And just because I don't have a explanation doesn't prove it was God's doing. That is asinine to claim God did something just because you don't understand it. There are numerous cases where doctors claimed someone was dead when they were not.

Exactly. God performs miracles in such a way that we still have to have faith.

I don't see any proof that happened. You have one man's testimony. That is not proof. You couldn't take that into a court of law and say Joseph Smith saw God so we know he is real. I believe in God because of the whisperings of the holy ghost. There is no proof beyond that that you will find.

you know of one that proves God is real? Do tell.

Sure, I believe you do, but can you prove that you do? Have you ever written these down and shared them with someone before it happens? And have you ever been wrong? Or the visions been wrong?

I am serious and do research and have a decent knowledge of statistics. But pretend I am stupid please. Perhaps others don't see what you see.

Ok.

Here is something related..... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1173093/ Why do LDS women who have gotten breast cancer have a lower survivability rate than non-Mormons? Are the priesthood holders not doing their jobs? If an LDS woman receives a blessing and survives breast cancer, what is the likelihood of members chalking that up to a miracle? Yet if a non-LDS woman survives, is it not a miracle? Wouldn't the LDS woman have just as much chance without the blessing as with? And if there really is no difference with or without a blessing, why give them? I do not ask these questions because I do not have faith. I believe I have faith. I ask them in an attempt to perhaps have a better understanding of God and his plan. I don't believe God does random. Everything happens for a purpose and all according to a master plan.

I think that is what I was stating... yes, that is what I am doing. God didn't just get mad at the people and destroy them with a flood. It was something planned from the foundations of the world and wiped out Noah's world. It was not something God just magic'ed up on the spot cause he was unhappy. He created a flood through means that could look natural to an outside observer. And to me that is the more clever miracle. God is not going to give you a miracle that gives you proof of his existence.

How did the anti-Mormons explain it away? Surely they did, or else they would have joined. Optical illusion... I wasn't there and didn't see what it looked like. Seagulls... really? you can't come up with an explanation? Well seeing as how you have listed a million other things, I'll respond with a million different ways. I say they don't run counter to science. Our understanding of medicine is extremely primitive. There are very few things doctors know how to cure. Most things doctors do is treat symptoms. Healing is mostly done by the body, if at all. Why do you think I don't believe in big miracles? I absolutely do. I just believe that the way they actually occur is never in a manner that can't be explained away by some other means. Of course he uses processes we aren't familiar with. But that doesn't mean he uses processes that are extremely different from our understanding of science either. It isn't that I don't believe he is capable of "Magic" like miracles. Rather, I think he has things so well laid out in his plan that things that are miracles to us also manifest as a naturally occurring event. God doesn't need to conjure up a storm, I think the storm was already going to be there from the get go. It was part of his well laid out plan.... And to me, that is the greater power and miracle.

My real beef with the whole Noah story in the bible is that it is very counter to science. All miracles in the bible can be explained away by science or by exaggeration. I am not saying miracles don't exist. I think they do. But I think they always occur in a manner that is only faith promoting to the faithful and never in a way that can't be explained by something else. And there is good reason for this. I truly believes God works in a manner that never proves his existence and thus we are forced to believe on him through faith and the power of the Holy Ghost. Not a single miracle has been performed in the Latter days that one can point to it and say yep, God is definitely real. Not even Joseph Smith, perhaps one of the greatest prophets of all time (if you can even rank prophets) didn't perform any miracles that one can say.... "Yep, God definitely exists" When people speculate that the earth was one flat content before the flood and then it separated, formed mountains, created a fake fossil and geological history, it flies against God and his ways. There was no way for all species to fit on the ark.. God wouldn't form all the mountains after the flood. Not that he couldn't, but I really don't think that is the way he works. It has been shown in scientific studies that prayer has little to no affect on the sick. And yet we all pray in faith for the healing of the sick. I truly believe that I have seen miracles in my life. Yet each and everyone could be explained away. And to me it is a greater testament to God being able to perform miracles in such a way that they are only truly miracles to the faithful. And the greatest miracles... ever lasting life, forgiveness, resurrection, etc. Those are things you are only going to witness on a personal level.

Humans have always relied on technology. Primative hunting tools are a form of technology. So is the wheel, canning, glass making, etc. By the way, the Amish are not opposed to tech. They are opposed to relying on outsiders. That means hooking up to the grid. Many now use power tools that are connected to independent power source. By the way power tools are tech as well. Are you sad about our reliance on them? Could you build a house with Primative tools? Sure, but it will take you much longer. I check Google maps every time I leave the office. Not because I don't know the way, but to check traffic and get the best route. Can you use a slide rule? Most engineers can't. Should we? No. We have our tech.

I don't have trouble believing God has the power, but it does not fit. You never saw a flood in Texas that covered everything. You saw it cover some local things. On top of that, Texas is mostly flat. We have been taught that the matter of the universe already existed and God formed it to his liking. Following that where did the extra water come from to cover the earth? Where did it go? Why even bring into play evaporation. Evaporation would indicate that the water is still here. Clearly it is not. So there is no point to try to explain it scientifically. If it happened it had nothing to do with science and a whole lot of evidence had to vanish.

Of course it took a revelation to lift it. I wouldn't call it ignorance, nor racism of church leaders. I would equate it more to fear of disrupting the status quo. I remember being taught that Black's couldn't hold the Priesthood for the curse of Cain. That never set right with me. We are not punished for Adam's transgression. Why would blacks be punished for what Cain did? There was lots of racism in church members during that time. It completely went against the teachings of Christ. And I am sure church leaders were aware of racism in the church. How would member's react to a change? It is close to admitting that you were wrong and the church is never wrong. How would the church now be able to come out and play down the flood? It would be an admission of being wrong. The only choice is to double down.

What evidence is against it? The whole science of geology. And yes, lack of evidence requires one to have faith in that thing. In most cases there is not evidence saying something didn't happen. In the case of the flood, there is much evidence saying it didn't happen.

The scriptures have plenty of errors/contradictions. Our own leaders have been wrong in the past. Does it take more faith to accept that there are errors and still believe in God, or does it take more faith to believe in what is more likely a myth? I figure there probably wasn't a flood, but it doesn't affect my faith in God and his power. Let's take the blacks and holding the priesthood. Where is the revelation saying that they couldn't hold it? How much bad doctrine came from that policy? How much racism came from it? Our leaders aren't always right. It isn't wrong to question things in the scriptures. We are told to study these things out. When I study the atonement, I get a strong witness of its truth. I never have with the flood. Of course there are those that have had a witness of the flood. Who is right? Does it really matter? So to cover the entire earth, the water level would have needed to be 30k feet higher than now. To do this in 40 days would need to take a rain fall of 30 ft. /hour. Where did this rain come from? Where did it go? How did Noah get all of the millions of different animals on the ark? The list goes on and on with incongruities. It just doesn't fit with miracles of the past.

Sure, but there is much evidence against it.

That list doesn't have any evidence against it. The flood has much evidence against it.

There is tons of evidence against it. Just take soil cores of the past 10k years. You have evidence of local flooding, but nothing of global flooding. Look at the grand canyon. It took 5 million years to form. It is something that didn't form in a few days. I have faith that God has the power to do a flood, but I don't see him doing it. It doesn't fit with miracles of the past.

In all of your examples above there is no evidence that suggests those things didn't occur. Take the parting of the red sea. Doing this would leave little evidence behind to be found. No evidence of Jesus not walking on water. Many in your list can be explained away. With the flood, there is much evidence against it. There is evidence of local flooding.

That's weird. How did that happen?

Secular glasses have nothing to do with it. If you have evidence, I would be happy to review it. I personally have a hard time believing most conspiracy theories. There is zero reason to try and cover up a great flood. Therefore, I don't buy it.

I did and it still doesn't mention a global flood.

Evidence of local flooding.