Earl

Who is not a Gentile ? Are the Gentiles causing the sealed portion to be held back?

Before I take leave I have one more comment. The term fusion I stated above also has a deep connection to the phrase inner man that Paul mentions frequently in his letters and LDS discusses. This too not coming from your prophets will also sever a discussion. With due respect Ill discontinue.

laronius, The source from which I have taken and rephrased the above statement is to my knowledge revealed by God. I acknowledge for some if not all here who read the above it is confusing to see a parallel from another source not from your prophets with such similiarity .That you did not engage it but attempt to advise me to steer away from knowledge that your prophets have not spoken. This is not doctrine by definition stated above. It is simply an interesting fact that modernized revealed information like the above is not exclusive to any one or group or chosen people or person. Im not selling the above parallel to LDS but if you see a parallel then it is what it is. I do believe the posters before me have been left hanging and unsure concerning the three degrees of glory . What I see here is that I have showed a clarification not confusion . I

I am not LDS but however after reading much of this thread I would like to present a parallel of the 3 kingdoms with modern phraseology. . This may produce a need for definition and clarification but still I will proceed. From what I currently have drawn from the LDS sources the 1st. most desired kingdom is the Celestial kingdom 2nd. the Terrestrial kingdom 3rd. the Telestial kingdom In modern phraseology the intake in heaven of all resurrected are divided into 3 classifications of new arrivals (not kingdoms) for God's kingdom is one and the same. The method whereby one time mortals becomes citizens of heaven is by the term known as fusion and there are 3 kinds. 1,Father fused(fusion),2,Son fused(fusion),3.Spirit fused(fusion) Father (Celestial ) fused (kingdom ) The Father fused belongs to a special Paradise group.is destined for Paradise redency.Attains unlimited service throughout universes.Traverses Paradise with the presence of God. Son (Terrestrial ) fused (kingdom) Resulting from sycronization fusion difficulty of father fusion one is then Son fused and catagorized as Son fused who primarily super universe residential destiny service. Spirit(Telestial) fused (kingdom) Sycronization difficulties from Father fusion and Son fusion.Primarily local universe destiny service.The spirit fused citizen does not retain any of their memory of their previous mortal life as the Father and Son fused do .They have to consult records and others who may have been present in their life. No person will know what category (kingdom) they will be placed in until arrival in heaven. Kingdoms are catagories where one will primarily do service in the universes. No religious authority on Earth is capable to classify which destiny awaits us .They do not have that authority.

Remember Jarius' daughter. Mk5-21-43.The family concluded the daughter was dead.and was mourning .Jesus arrived and said she was only sleeping.Jarius' daughter may be known as being resurrected twice from her two first deaths(sleeping)if she also proceeds and continues life after judgement of the just and unjust. I found an internet page based on this event by LDS.

Vort ,Just being polite here, I stated that this is an example ,Giving quotes from the bible to express the example. Th OP was /is a logical explanation why hell is not literal___. I provided one.Is it comprehensible? But since my example contains christian bible quotes is that also contrary as you say? After all, do not LDS call themselves christians? Or have these quotes excluded from LDS doctrines? And while I sometimes post on the christian sub forum I am told on occasion we don't believe that "Or similiar phrasing. What I see is that my quotes are taken from the Bible the same place LDS also quotes from. Since this thread started no one so far has created a sequence of events leading to eternal life from either holy book. Is the Bible unreliable for this OP? Either way please feel free to make any corrective measures as you see fit.Just being polite here.

How is something dead that is alive in the lake of fire if it were not for Mythric,Egyptian and Zoorasterism. And this is how the logical explanation why hell is not literally fire and brimstone. Foregoing is an example of what occurs through and up to standing on the streets of Heaven. 1A-you begin your life on Earth.Your name is written in the book of life. 1-Physical death.This is the so called first death(actually sleeping).This is a undetermined time prior to judgement of the just and unjust.You are not conscious. 2-The judgement of the just and unjust.At this formality you remain sleeping during this frame of time.(Counter to popular belief). 3-The book of life is opened. 4- Rev. 20.14-The next process is the actual judgement.Will your name remain in the book of life?Everyone on Earth will be called eventually. 5-When you are judged and proceed in life your name remains in the book.If you do not proceed once judged your name is erased .From a temporary sleeping condition to death ,permanent condition.(This is the second death)(from sleeping to total extinction). 6- Erasing your name is the second death.(from sleeping to permanent death)(you are a living potential until the second death,now you cease to exist ,your name is erased.There is no book of the dead,no hell after life at all.Your name is not and neither are you. 7-Once your name is called to proceed in life you awaken and spiritualize on the sea of glass.Rev 15.2. 8-Your journey begins now. The lake of fire don't exist because you don't exist.No one to put in the lake of fire.Dead means dead.How is something dead alive in the lake of fire? To awaken all that are sleeping prior to judgement for the judgement process would just be rewarded with life unconditionally.Everyone gets rewarded because the awakening is on the sea of glass as John describes it.If all are to be awakened prior to judgement the judgement is useless . Rev21.27-No one who is defiled shall enter the gates of heaven or on the sea of glass,the first stop.Heaven is only for those who are written in the lambs book of life.

I am sure these questions been asked and answered, where is hell? is hell physical, consistent with elements on the periodic chart in use today by science? is man who goes there carbon based or unknown spirit based substance? is hell God's creation ? is God satisfied to resurrect a man and torture him? What is the second death? is the earliest concept of hell has it's roots in Babylonian ,Sumerian story telling? did Moses or Abraham teach a hell for sinners? is it normal for a father to torture his sons and daughters? Do we as parents think our children should be torture when needed or required? Is no resurrection better than resurrection and torture? What proper torture environment and methods is best recommended to get the desired torture results? how does one proceed from death to hell,how and what matter is used to make the transit?

Back to the drawing board,from the KJV since this is the christian beliefs board. Some thoughts and understanding on the Trinity , counter to various teachings of it. One key that helps in understanding the Trinity is that The Trinity is (undivided and indivisible). Many christian teachers will ,on a diagram ,with their pen place 3 dots or 3 circles on a board in front of a class and then draw a line from each one to another single dot or circle.This is their was to present the 3 as 1 biblical interpretation of the Trinity. The problem is that the 3 are indivisible and undivided therefore 3 dots or circles diagram cannot be drawn to represent the 3 that bear witness.They are not dividable The Trinity can be described in 3 names only,Father ,Son and Spirit. This is why there is only one God because of indivisibility a undivided Trinity.This is why the 3 are 1 stated in the NT.

Hi Eve, Ill address the Trinity question in another way ,simplified sorta way. Do the three Trinity personalities God ,Son,Spirit have conscious awareness of each other actualizing themselves as a single Deity-God or Is God a single consciousness actualized as a Father,Son and Spirit Deity Trinity personalities? "His souls have the most gorgeous glorified bodies"Are His souls one time human who thereafter obtained a suitable or presented with another type or modified from their original carbon based type?I'm asking what are you calling glorified?Is the glorified bodies carbon modified or of a unknown substance?Are they material, semi material or as Paul states ," a greater substance"?Just curious since you stated you met God but did not say where this happened if that's not too personal question.

Hi Eve I have been reading a few of your posts here and especially your last .The first trinity concept associated with God,Son and Spirit is found in the NT.After that it has been debated ever since.A verse there states there are 3 that bare witness --- and the 3 are 1.You state there is 1 who is 3, above.Is that an oversight because it changes the meaning of your description of the trinity vs the NT.It may to some seem like semantics but it changes the definition don't you think?Also, when we speak of a trinity we have a least a tri unity association of Deities involved.Yes by extension literally and spiritually and we actually are sons of God but not yet full spirit beings,as we speak here we remain mortals, we are not Deity for we are not for one reason omnipresent beings ,"God created man" and we are never able to create in ourselves one equal to God for if so there will be gods to share all the characteristics and nature of any of the 3 paradise beings.God was here first (by no qualification ),he has that exclusive title,the first and only.As well as his first Son who also has that title.Therefore I cannot see how humans can be incorporated into a trinity of Deity beings for we are not God or the Son,only great grandsons,or the Spirit.We must qualify our selves in faith to at least become other than mortals.Your clarification will be helpful?

anatess2, That statement is very specific in how it was written in that most all if not every one will say in their attempt to explain the Trinity that God (the one) is all 3.. That is not how it reads in the Bible.It reads the 3 are 1. However God is the Father,God is the Son,God is the Spirit and these 3 are one(God) No one that I know worships the Trinity because the Trinity is non personal but we all worship God who is a personal being we can know.Likewise when the Word was made flesh ,the Word in the flesh did not require us to pray or worship him but he said he will send our petitions to the Father. Teachers will teach that God (the one) who is the 3 but like a sentence they read it backwards,right to left .Left to right is how it was first written.The 3 are one. If we say the (1) God is God the Father and God the Son and God the Spirit then we have said God is 3 persons but God is one God therefore he cannot be 3 persons. Yes there are 3 Trinity persons but there is from those 3 one God who is actual and Spiritual to finite creatures as ourselves. From a perfect triunity of relationship of 3 divine persons we have one God.

The Trinity has it's mystery for sure. What is mentioned is ,as we all have read,There are 3 that bare witness and the 3 are one. The Bible does not say there is one that bares witness and the 1 is three. Paul states Jesus is God However in Paul's day the Trinity concept would have never taken root .The arguments roared until the church voted later on. The difficulty is the difference between actuals and spirituals and absolute meanings. Jesus made both spiritual and actual statements as to how God was in relation to himself.He even made one absolute statement how God is. On the surface reading of what Jesus said about his Father clearly shows conflicting statements but when attatching speaking spiritually or speaking actually clears up the confusion.. There is not much detail concerning the Trinity the Bible can offer

After reading only a few posts on this topic I would say that, Christianity is based on Paul's doctrine,the 3 major 1-atonement doctrine in it's few interpretations 2-predestiny doctrine 3-Paul's understanding of the Trinity concept-(Jesus is God),not John the Apostle's Paul's christianity smothers Jesus' true teaching of salvation we can find where one man asked Jesus how to have eternal life. The idea of who you want to identify yourself with is a moot point and is sectarianism which is a disease. It is funny but understandable that all sects of religion will openly state ,this teaching of our holy book is the way, follow me . However there can only be one truth,one God,one Jesus,one Trinity,etc, Sectarianism is what drives people away. One does not need the added baggage of another's weight to be accepted as others accept another. Jesus' response to the man's question says it all . We must remember that the temple we are building is not built with hands And the ark of the covenant we are building is not does not disperse the water we drink Thanks

Dennis Tate, I have heard of multi universe worlds but it is not in my scope of interest at this time but the Biblical"mark of the beast " in relation to "already occurred well before the year r2018 does catch my attention. What Sir, is your interpretation of "the mark of the beast" ?I would be interested in hearing it. Ill check back in a day or so ,knowing your post is not active,for any replies. Thanks

SpiritDragon, I find that the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the story surrounding it's theory is not persuasive . Fig leaves and animal skins do not cover up a wrong from eating fruit from a tree. If the fig leaves and animal skins were not part of the incidents the story might be believed literally. It is unbelievable to think Adam and Eve did not know they wore no clothes. These are two adults not two year olds. Up to this point I have remained 'in bounds' of the Bible but now because of it's limitations Ill transition to The Urantia Book and there in is answers to these discussions. I found in Paper 75 and 76 Serpent's full name is Serapatatia. Eve mated with a Nodite, Cano, in the garden,Cain was born enroute to the second garden "east of Eden". Adam mated with a Nodite,Laotta,in the garden,Sansa was born enroute to the second garden "east of Eden". The tree of knowledge of good and evil is not a tree. It is a meaning-do not commingle good with evil. Adam and Eve was warned to not mate with the native Nodites. Good intentions do not change evil into good. Doing wrong for a good reason does not make a right.It is still wrong. Adamson-first son born in the garden. Eveson-second son born in the garden. Cain married Ramona a distant cousin who was Nodite. She was from the land of Nod. Abel- first child to be born in the second garden. Seth- eldest surviving son of Adam born in the second garden.Born 129 years after Adam began in the garden.Bible says 130 years.

SpiritDragon, Ill go ahead and continue. One of the reasons that I can see there was whispering is the verse 1 Jo.3.12 (KJV) Cain was of the wicked one. I see this verse carries a spiritual sense of it's meaning,Cain did a wicked thing,kill.Others who read it may see it as literal also which gives way to thinking that Cain is the son of Satan who some believe was the Serpent in the garden who had relations with Eve and Cain was his offspring.But ,Serpent was a beast of the field. In 1978 the NIV was published and this verse was changed to Cain 'belonged to the evil one'. Sometimes the NIV is helpful in clarifying things ,such as ,instead of the KJV saying giants the NIV says Nephilim . Belong is defined as ,property of or a member of. Knowing that Satan is said to be a fallen angel and angels can neither marry or are given in marriage .Satan can not reproduce and is out of the picture but not Serpent. Serpent can reproduce, "his seed".So Cain belonged to Serpent. Eating of the tree caused hatred between the two seeds. Cain said (KJV)everyone that findeth me and the Lord said whosoever slayeth Cain.Plural meanings. From this I can not say Cain was the son of Serpent but can say there is seed of Serpent and two people were Serpent's parents.

SpiritDragon, Apologize for the delay, I have not forgotten to answer but I will .But first a question to you, Mordorbund posted a statement from the conference of the church in 1913. If this was all that was said on this matter at that time, What did the LDS members find where they might want to "whisper" about Eve? Or, what was causing them to whisper,for the speaker there to say the human race was not born of fornication?

mordorbund, From your quote Lehi said, "And because he had fallen from heaven". "he (devil) sought also the misery of all mankind". There is from the KJV something of a record of what transpired from the rebellion on Earth at 2 Pe.ch2 and Jude. From what these writers state of the rebellion inflicting misery was not one of the reasons although many were miserably affected by the rebellion. The rebellion was about false teachers and false prophets who were called beasts that went about denying God and his son.If we deny God and his status we automatically deny Jesus as his son. It would be impossible to deny God from anything so the definition here would be these people deny God that is there is no God and if no God Jesus is no son of God.This is atheism. The false teachers,prophets were teaching atheism . 2Pe.2.19-"while they promise them liberty".These beasts showed they were exercising liberty with no remorse, repercussions from God. And Lehi said "Adam fell that men might be". From the KJV Adam and Eve were told to multiply while in their immortal state.They continued this in their mortal state. Eating from the tree would be a transgression ,stumble ,but it did not stop their progress. If it stopped their progress it would be a fall. The Conference of the church in comparison to the KJV. states it was the introduction of the devil that caused death in men and women.If they are pointing to Serpent,he was a man.He did not fall from heaven. Thanks for showing this .I am beginning to know something of what LDS teaches.

SpiritDragon, "likeness and image" If the scripture was written yesterday or in this century I would agree with your reasoning .However it was not. I had to consider what the storyteller meant in the day it was written,centuries ago.And this is how I evaluated this scripture and made this conclusion. The basis for this is simply doing a definition search of a word like 'seed', comparing a very old dictionary and a new dictionary.Seed is defined ,among other things,in an old dictionary as descendants,ancestors,offspring and family stock but it is not always found in a new dictionary.The definition is passing away. On your second part, About the time Cain left home there is no mention of "others" in his family,just Adam and Eve. There was no one to keep a secret from unless you are saying Adam and Eve did not know and Cain made a run for it before they found out .But how would they find out if Cain left before telling them unless "others" told them.Cain left home before Seth was born, unless you expand on Eve's seed as well as Serpent's seed who had hatred for Eve's seed as I do. For Cain's offense to be written someone mortal was a witness or Adam and Eve were told so by Cain.There is no mention that God told Eve or Adam Cain killed his brother. So who are the others you make reference to?

mordorbund, You stated Mormon apostles have strongly denounced the notion that sex was the cause of the fall." From my inspection using the KJV only, the incident with Adam and Eve I find there is not enough information about the tree to connect the tree with sex What reasoning do Mormon apostles strongly denounce the notion sex was the cause for Adam and Eve's mortal existence?

mordorbund, 1.Seth -son of Adam and Eve.Seth was in Adam's image and likeness. Abel-was killed.Understandably is the son of Eve.Nothing is mentioned about his image or likeness in that he was not Adam's son. 2.Cain -son of Eve.Cain was not in Adam's image or his likeness .Adam was not the father.The two verses at the top post conflict. 3.Serpent-a man whose seed hated Eve's seed and her seed likewise .Seed in an old dictionary ,for a definition here,says it is descendants,offspring,family stock and or ancestors.I will rather broaden seed to say Serpent,his descendants and Serpent's people had hatred as I did before but not Serpent as enemy's father because it does not read that way. Do you have valid reasoning for what the tree is or means?

Spirit Dragon, But most of all Cain was afraid someone will kill him.Why?The answer reflects back to his likeness and image.And knowing that Serpent has family who had hatred against Eve's family is enough for Cain to fear for his life.So what was Cain's tattoo (mark)for other than showing others he may be different but is not to be killed by the figure of speech "friendly fire".

Vort, "silence "?How so? Spirit Dragon, It is stated ,Adam ,after Abel's death,begat a son in his own likeness and his own image.Then why was Cain not?It was evidently a very big issue to find his attitude toward Cain in the Bible. And I have already posted that Serpent was a man,and how he was a man slurred as a beast of the field. Two descriptions must qualify.'likeness' and 'image.'You only gave one. Is there enough information here to justify my statement?Sure Mordobund, Abel was killed so I did not include him. About the tree. So far all my posts have come from within the KJV Bible.And have used references and valid reasoning from the framework of that source.The Bible gives no description of what the tree is or means.So as long as I stay in the framework of the Bible ,the Bible can't tell us.Therefore any explanation will be a non mainstream Christian and a non Biblical one.And this is a Christian section of LDS forum. Do you have valid reasoning for what the tree is or means?

Mordorbund asked me if I believe Cain was the son of Serpent Mainstream Christianity believes Cain was the son of Adam . However ,the christian people I have discussed this with over the years fail to see a conflict in the Bible scripture. Here is the conflicting verses Gen.4.1-And Adam knew Eve his wife,and she conceived ,and bare Cain.... vs Gen.5.3-And Adam....begat a son in his own likeness and after his image....Seth. Here is the problem No other children was born in between Cain and Seth because this statement would not be stated, would not have said this. Cain was not in Adam's Likeness (appearance representation or resemblance) Cain was not in Adam's image (a reproduction or imitation of form) This would indicate Adam is not the father of Cain. Some believe there is a connection between Serpent ( but they would call it ,the serpent) beguiling Eve and the outcome of it was Cain. But there is no definitive explanation what the "tree" really is or means in the Bible. Serpent did not eat from the tree only Eve then Adam ,if you are looking in that direction. However the above conflicting statements do indicate to me Cain was a half breed who's father is not mentioned in the Bible. Cain and his wife apparently had very good genetics ,his offspring built a city and worked iron and brass,herded cattle,developed musical instruments and played them..(It reads as if these things were done for the first time) And to answer your other question,no I have no particular denomination.