john4truth

I don't know if it is recorded he said it in Houston about 5 years ago with about 300 Stake Presidencies and Bishops present, from the pulpit the truth is what it is

You are disputing Elder Ballard

My work is done I can die in peace LOL. Reopening this old thread proved the need for everyone to love and respect divorcees, and the need for someone in leadership to remove the blocking of brothers or sisters because they are divorced. Just because you are divorced you should not be a bishop. I just do not believe Jesus would called Saul using if our modern mindset was correct. It is funny half of the comments say there is no discrimination divorcees can be made bishops, the other half says we need to accept the fact that a divorcee can not be a bishop. Both sides feel they have sufficient evidence. This is my point that apparently this is an item of confusion among the brethren which is normal we are only people. I do think in many cases of what the Church calls innocent divorcees it should be wiped from their records and from the minds of the brethren. The fact that this is an old thread indicates this is an old problem that has never been resolved only talked about until people were tired of debating.

Ok you are right, but I think you know what I meant. It is funny half of the comments say there is no discrimination divorcees can be made bishops, the other half says we need to accept the fact that a divorcee can not be a bishop. Both sides feel they have sufficient evidence. This is my point that apparently this is an item of confusion among the brethren which is normal we are only people.

Socrates got it. LOL There is too much to know to know more even 1 percent of the truth. The gospel is full of things the Prophets or Apostles were commanded not to write down. Gichin Funakoshi got as did the greatest wise men of the world. I know this was just a joke please take no offense

Sorry this is why this thread is opened back up. I know and M Russell Nelson said , Many divorcees have been bishops. What you are saying is what needs to stop, Even leaders above Bishops are misinformed. The quote given in response to the question by the General Bishopric is that divorcee is not an unforgivable sin. At the same time you say they can't, I have others arguing no one has ever said they can't. Both opinions think I am ignorant. I am a ill old man but if you disagree you have not researched this.

It can not be proven because it is in the minds of leaders and never made public. This is the problem it is not doctrine nor is it printed but come to the south and you will find people in most Wards have heard this misinformation continued. I spoke with a man 2 days ago that the Stake President told because of his divorce he did not have to worry he would never be bishop. Misinformation is not in the handbook, not in the scriptures, and even though I hear there are printed memos I have never gotten my hands on one. I am just an old man that have witnessed divorcees being demonized like they were a child molester. Some things are hard to prove. I challenge you that if you start a blog you will find many people who have heard this misinformation.

A church psychologist says in the Church it can be worse for a worthy spouse than death of a spouse.

M Russell Ballard publically said he has seen many divorced men made bishops. The problem is the misconception, no differnt than not allowing blacks to to recieve the priesthood after Joseph Smith ordained African Americans as Elders

L Tom Perry covered this and never mentioned divorce. This is the common mistake that causes most of the problems. I believe Elder Perry tried to clarify the qualification but we are slow to change our traditions. Elder M Russell Ballard told me personally divorce should not prevent a person from being bishop at a 4 hour fireside in Houston Texas and did so in form of all the Bishops and Stake Presidents in the region

A perpetual liar or gossiper is worse than an innocent divorcee. Not every divorcee has anything to repent of nor do I believe Jesus Christ would assert long term consequences of a woman who learned her husband was a drug dealer, unfaithful, abusive and refused to change. There are many innocent victims and we need to be Christ Like. That is all that matters.

Child molesting is a mental disability. Should we compare Murderers to Gossipers. Divorcees should not be demonized, that is the point

You have not read what has been said, you claim it is false without reading the full blog. Divorcees are made bishops, but it depends traditions in different Stakes. You also need to become better informed on this site where people acknowledge the differences in what shows up in annotations, some things only show when you try to print a membership. My point is being made by people all over the Church on this website. Many people have found the exact thing I know. If you do not know something it does not make it false. We all know little but that does not make the other 99 percent false. Read and become informed my brother. I am old and ill, I am only want to correct a problem. This is not the first problem that needed to be brought to all leaders attention. If we simply listen to L.. Tom Perry and not add to the requirements for bishop in some areas or be inconsistent the problem would be solved.. My only desire is to fix a problem. Everyone makes the same mistake. This is not the first time a mistake needed correcting. Most would have simply accepted what happened at Mountain Meadows. It took a Prophet to fix the problem. This is the same problem as the faulty Unwritten Order Of Things where a leader claimed women could not say opening prayer. We will understand this better in the eternities. I too have supported faulty traditions. I am simply repenting by trying to stop false traditions. I am only an old man trying to point out widespread misinformation used as it is, inconsistently

There are conditions that must be monitored, Child Molestation is never completely cured. Divorce is not a mental illness

Child Molesters and Divorcees should not be compared I would say this is an example of the discrimination

Elder L Tom Perry covered the what should be the official doctrine on being bishop, he explained it fully. Regretfully we let our on opinions creep in no matter our own calling. No difference than drinking Coke or letting a woman say opening prayer in sacrament. The truth comes from the pulpit and scriptures and is spelled out in the Handbooks.... not from memos and secret discussions. If an error is made from the pulpit sooner or later it gets retracted. We can be happy knowing this is a test, it is only a test, even leaders make mistakes and it test us. Be happy this life is but a moment in time. In the end we will all learn we know almost nothing only then will we be able to receive the fullness of knowledge. True wisdom is realizing how little we know, especially me.

I do not wish to debate the topic of divorcees in leadership. I do know for a fact divorcees are excluded for consideration for callings, there is a permanent record on all divorces records, divorcees are a huge part of the Church membership. Apostle M. Russell Ballard and the General Bishopric of the Church in a direct answer to my question in a meeting said divorces were not unforgivable sins, they should be remembered no more and divorcees can be Bishops. This contradicts the traditions and even written instructions sent out I believe in error. Nothing can be proven but I sincerely believe that in these the last days we should listen to the Lord when reviewing list for callings and the list should not discriminate against divorcees based on what I was personally told by an apostle while he was in Houston Texas. I am not apostate I simply am aware of the facts. The first African Americans given the Melchezidek Priesthood was ordained by Joseph Smith only to have this contradicted by leaders after his death, I believe to keep white men happy at the time, and this was confirmed when the speaker was questioned. "When you realized that the basis for the denial of the priesthood and temple blessings to Africans and those of African descent was based in something less than doctrine, and, in fact, racism, what kind of a wrestle did that create inside you as a black Latter-day Saint? "He said he had accept that a times the desires of man ignore the true doctrine. I personally heard Mr Gray a Church representative give the answer, and my son asked questions that confirmed, also at times in the Lord allow ideas of man to be used. I expect the eternities, divorce, racism, and other non doctrine, will take care of everything. If the Lord remembers no more a divorce who then can change that. I will comment no further because it is not my desire to cause discord only with hopes that future generations will not see the discrimination. We are a perfect Church staffed by imperfect men. When a spouse dies we flock to the support of the survivor, in a divorce there is limited support. According to a Church employed psychologist divorce is more traumatic for members than death. Our only goal should be to do things asking the question, What would Jesus Do.

Yes I know of one case personally and have learned of others where a person was called to be a bishop or higher calling but the name was withdrawn due to divorce. There is not absolute way to know who if any are fore ordained but it reasonable in this case to assume and with the high percentage of divorcees in the church, leaders being told to exclude them(without first seeking inspiration). With extreme numbers it would be statistically foolish to think it does not happen also.. I have know many cases where last knowledge of divorce has led to the exclusion of inspired pics. There is a reason the scriptures say whether chosen by man or God it is the same ... at times God's choice does not make the list. We should still support a leader no matter what. I have served in the high council twice for several years and in 4 bishoprics so I know we are all just human and we all make errors, even in callings There is no way to prove who is fore ordained but the circumstancial evidence is undeniable. Nothing Spiritual can be proven but I have known many cases where before and after it appeared obvious. I spoke to a man last night to a man who the Stake President told,, because he was divorced, his name will never be submitted for bishop. This is happening all over the US due to a faulty tradition. Common sense says the widespread discrimination is bound to result in fore ordained being denied, only a few miracles make it past the false traditions. Men and women can be innocent divorcees. Asking for absolute proof about any inspiration or revelation can not proved but it is real, and discrimination is aa very reasonable conclusion given the evidence. I do not blog on my on behalf, but rather on the future with hopes the words or M. Russell Ballard told me personally that divorce should be forgiven and forgotten and it is not. There is a permanent record attached if divorced. I do not know Greek nor Hebrew and my only question was over the word" one" . I was informed of this error by an non bias genius with a PHD and who could personal speak the language. The meaning of words depend on context. Even this does not matter. My information did not come from a book or PC program translator. It came form a person who could speak the language fluently. We can not use books or programs especially if you dissect the statement. I ask everyone to first listen to Elder L Tom Perry's qualification for bishops and if you choose to disagree with an Apostle you have that agency. It is not an error that he never mentioned divorce when it can easily be assumed without an Apostle''s explanation,

Divorce is a tricky subject in the Church. Many notices have been sent out in error. Our leaders are only humans. The scriptures are full of Prophets that made mistakes. In the words of African American Speaker Darius Gray at times in the church we are governed by the policies of man, not God, such as denying black men the priesthood for over 100 years. God will fix their mistakes in the next world and make up for the errors. There is a tradition in most places to avoid divorcees in leadership. This is false doctrine. I personally asked Elder Ballard and was assured divorce is not an unpardonable sin and should not prevent a man from being called a bishop. Many notices to the contrary have been written by leaders that should be retracted. I am old and not physically able to be in higher leadership but it scares me how many times a person who was fore ordained to be a leader has been excluded in error. I spoke with the mission President and he said the only Temple items are to make sure parents with dependent children are not given calling that will interfere. The handbook uses 1 Timothy for a reference but if you listen to Elder Perry cover those scriptures he never mentions divorce in his lengthy description of what qualifies a man to be Bishop. Correctly translated the scripture would read a Bishop should be a man with A Wife not one wife. We must understand the Church is true but our leaders are subject to many errors. I remember an Apostle sending out an article saying women could not give opening prayer in sacrament, only to have retract it. Notices on Cokes and many other things have come out and all we as divorcees can do is wait for the day when the Lord says enough and an official policy of non discrimination against divorcees is established. Currently leaders even at high levels have been misinformed at high levels, making divorcees one of the most discriminated against groups. We must do like African Americans and realize Heavenly Father does not discriminate and some day this will be corrected. Stake Presidents have been warned to themselves quit watching pornography, you would think they would be ask to immediately confess to the appropriate authority. We must overcome the flaws of earthly leaders as hurdles that hurt our testimonies. I have done everything I can do to draw attention to the tradition of false doctrine that is even sent to leaders in writing. The Church is true but leaders fall victim to deception and tradition. The last shall be first and the first shall be last. Today we divorcees are last and yes ignored for things we were fore ordained to do. In the end we will be rewarded for keep our faith in Heavenly Father in spite of the countless errors of leaders. We should expect this. Satan is real, look at the scriptures. Bishops have succumbed to child molesting, adultery, stealing offerings and other leaders have gotten by with much. In my limited knowledge I know of two buildings that were built because of falsified attendance numbers. My favorite speaker over 30 years ago, a member of the Seventy, was excommunicated and charged with child molestation. We are only responsible for what we do and remember the Lord will return or all will be lost. Lucifer and his demons are making those days closer and closer. Every hurdle brings you closer to Heavenly Father. I have no doubt we will receive our reward for being worthy even if we were denied to chance to serve. Never feel the simple act of divorce makes you unworthy in any way. Just because of the misinformed. You can touch the sacrament with your left hand, you can pass the sacrament without a white shirt if necessary, You could have hair, and etc...... each person has what the Lord expects and no one can judge you eternally. I know many were excommunicated years ago that would not be today. Time will cure all the mistakes of others. Heavenly Father looks down on us and says where did they come up with that one. We say we should not praise a man even at his funeral, only to open Sacrament with the poem written for the prophets funeral , then converted to a Hymn..... Parise to the Man.