ephedra

Say what you want. Neither "net" nor "gross" are found in D&C 119. "Surplus" is mentioned at least twice. My bishop and past ones know how I calculate income not because they asked me, but I told them. I first asked a bishop years ago (25 ish) about that method because I inherited a dozen or so ledgers from my Pioneer Stock, Polygamist descended, farmer of a Grandfather (he passed in 1950) . He recorded all his finances for about 35 years in there. Every transaction was recorded involving produce, trading, donations, expense for seed, feed expense, paying boys in the ward for work and so on. All harvests were recorded and even how much of the meat or bushels of produce they kept for family subsistence. Bottom line tithing was settled at the end of the year and it was based on what was left after all the dust settled. He then did the math on what was left over and above the previous year's balance and paid on his increase in "wealth" or surplus. There are even entries from when the Bishop sent members of the ward to come get food. I asked the Bishop about this because it is far different than what I was taught how to do it. I do nothing differently other than it is my business instead of a farm. I may be wrong and so may my grandfather, but I am not lying or hiding my increase. If the church considers that so, then perhaps the Bishop should put his big boy pants on (as you would word it) and handle it. Since no one is, I m probably ok.

I dredged up nothing. I wasn't even aware of it until told right there in this thread.

I am not talking a stolen valor theme here. He never claimed awards or rank or positions of authority in the military, just that he was on the receiving end of miracles while in combat which never even happened. He did serve in combat so I will give that to him. My issue is how can prostituting, pimping or whatever even come close to being worse than a General Authority using his position in the church to both mislead millions and profiting from it? A lack of integrity undermines the authority of the Priesthood in terms of trust it garners from within and without. It also brings into question in some minds of whether or not the 12 and 1st pres actually have the gift of discernment when this guy somehow eluded their gift for decades while lying to their membership. If he had not been a GA no one would have ever even heard of Paul H Dunn. It matters not if the intent was good- he intentionally lied. While it is terrible someone would hire a hooker and pimp out a few girls, we are not talking about a child sex trafficking ring here. He solicited alleged adult females who were already working the industry. Pretty much voluntary on their part if they had been real prostitutes instead of cops. He should be excommunicated and I bet he will, but that incident pales in comparison to the scope of what dunn did especially considering the position Dunn held when he did it. This being said, anyone who is ok with lying in order to build faith must also be ok with missionaries lying to investigators. Why not, they needed the church anyway and now they are here right?

https://president.byu.edu/

Im not angry, I just find it interesting given the background on this that Dunn was allowed to retire, continue to get royalties and all that jazz. I will never make an effort to defend a church leader for wrong doing. There is no reason to. I mean look at the Bishop in Ut who just got busted for trying to hire a hooker and pimp some girls out. He will be exed for sure, but the gravity of his sin is far far less than being a GA and lying to the World audience. BTW- that Bishop needs to be in jail.

Ok strike my rec for dunn...neither a great athlete or famous, just infamous

Yea I went and read up on it last night. Wasnt just about baseball either. Growing up he was the only apostle I didn't regard as boring. Too bad he is a liar. I do find it odd though that as an apostle he spends a couple decades lying to the entire world and the reporter who exposes him gets fired by the church for doing so. Then Dunn gets emeritus status and full retirement. Who gets a deal like that?

Here is the first pres definition of tithing: “The simplest statement we know of is the statement of the Lord himself, namely, that the members of the Church should pay ‘one tenth of all their interest annually,’ which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this.” (First Presidency letter, 19 March 1970.) [3] pretty much states right there no one is justified in making any other statement. The tells me your bishop, so, area auth etc do not have the authority to tell you how to define your income so by default they also are in no position to determine if your tithe is a full one or not. yea that is what I am saying. If I go to tithing settlement and declare a full tithe, I am under zero obligation to prove it. No one is unless I suppose I am peacocking around church telling everyone how I am scamming on tithing.

Well that guy is an idiot for bragging to the bishop or whoever about that. However his scam or whatever was discovered, yea that is obviously easy to scrutinize. That is a whole lot different than just a difference in opinion of what income is.

Do you mind sharing?

Hmm I’ll have to try that one.

Ok

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Mormonism_and_church_finances/Tithing/How_is_tithing_calculated#Robert_D._Hales:_.22The_First_Presidency_has_written_what_the_law_of_tithing_is_for_us_today.22

Whatever you and your Husband decide be sure to both be in agreement. I also would not reach back to become current tithe payers. 99% of Bishops will not ask you to do that, but I have heard of people taking out loans in order to back pay their tithing so they can be deemed "worthy" to have a recommend and go to a wedding or something. This at the direction of their Bishop or so they say. I do not quite believe that. As there is no clear direction on how to pay tithing, there are many variations. I treat my own income as if my wife and I are a business. She and I both earn a paycheck and we have whatever is not taken out by payroll. Social Security and 401K contributions will result in income much later and we will pay tithing on that money when we get it. As for what we pay on after we get our paychecks, we subtract all expenses we have which are "neccessary" such as mortgage, taxes, insurance, vehicle fuel and phone. The leftover becomes our "increase" and we pay tithing on that. It is commonly known as the surplus method. There have been a ton of fights over how to pay tithing over the years and bottom line but no one is right because the church cannot even give us a definitive answer and the leaders are not allowed to challenge anyone's declaration of a full tithe. We have heard people state they want gross vs net blessings. From what I understand you are either a full tithe payer or not. I have never heard there are extra blessings for paying more. If that is the case, how much do blessings cost? Is there a price sheet? I'd like to see it because there are certain blessings I may want to purchase if I can afford them. I hope it all works out for you- paying tithing is a blessing.

The late Paul H Dunn was a pro baseball player!

From strength of youth "Immodest clothing is any clothing that is tight, sheer, or revealing in any other manner. Young women should avoid short shorts and short skirts, shirts that do not cover the stomach, and clothing that does not cover the shoulders or is low-cut in the front or the back." https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-strength-of-youth/dress-and-appearance?lang=eng

ROTH IRAs are great if you expect to be in a tax bracket higher in retirement than what you are in when you are working - generally. If the person is in the 15% bracket it usually doesn't make sense to use anything but a ROTH with the exception of the 401K (403B, 457B, TSP) at work. 401Ks are found in both the Traditional and ROTH forms. Many employers offer both. Using the traditional IRA and 401K where contributions can be written off of income are better (IMHO) as it allows higher contributions and a reduction in taxable income. This, combined with the other available deductions such as medical, dependents and charitable contributions make it so eligible contributors can save much more and do it earlier. Taking full advantage of the 401K and possible employer matching contributions is a tremendous wealth builder. I have many clients who pay an effective rate of about 10% on their income even though they are six-figure earners. For those who do not make six figures, often the combination of deductions brings them into eligibility for the "Savers tax credit." I ensure every person I meet with who has a sub-six figure income is aware of this IRS rule as they may be eligible to take advantage of it. https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/plan-participant-employee/retirement-savings-contributions-savers-credit The ROTH is also a great tool to use to split up funds as we do not know what tax rates will be. ROTHs are also not subject to RMDs as opposed to traditional plans. Withdrawals in retirement can be made from both ROTH and Traditional sources in order to produce desired income and avoid moving up to a higher tax bracket. Many will cite the fact ROTHs are not taxable as the primary reason for having one. Tax laws change all the time so the ROTH can be impacted with that at some point. In most instances, people do not retire at a higher income than their final peak earnings years so it is very likely their contributions will be taxed at a much higher rate if diverted to a ROTH than they would be on withdrawal in retirement from a Traditional plan. The primary reason people have a difficult time making ends meet in retirement is not because of taxes, but because they failed to save early and often. The power of compounding works much more to your advantage when it is growing the money you deposited 30-40 years ago as opposed to five years ago with the age 50 catch-up provision. I find this to be an issue with many LDS clients who didn't save much or at all (for a variety of reasons) and then in their peak earning years they are financing their children's missions in addition to tithing. Although those expenses are pretty much non-negotiable for a faithful member, they definitely have a significant impact on their financial future. Now this is not such a big deal for the DRs. Lawyers and Dentists out there, but let us be honest. The vast majority of our Brothers and Sisters do not make a six figure income, much less one which will allow them to max out their 401K and/or even an IRA at any time in their lives. This is why I place heavy emphasis on them saving all they can as soon as they can. All other variables aside, Tithing and missions do make this much harder on an average income LDS family, but it can be done and I regularly am able to help many identify fund leakage they can divert to investing for their future. Does this issue also impact non-LDS families? Yes- just for different reasons, but I do find that many of them do save more money as they have more available. The college tuition thing also affects both LDS and Non-LDS alike. In order to save enough to retire, one must have a good idea of how much they will need in retirement. Let us say that in addition to Social Security, a family needs $20K annually in order to cover all expenses. If this is the case, they would need about $500K in a diversified portfolio in order to withdraw $20K annually in perpetuity. $40K per year? $1Million. We suggest a maximum withdrawal rate of 4% per year in order to accomplish this. I tend to lean to the conservative side and advise clients to go with 3 or 3.5% max! Don't put off saving your money. Keep in mind with historical inflation rates, $100,000 will only have about 50% of it's purchasing power in about 24 years. Here is a link which illustrates the benefit of saving early and often: https://investor.vanguard.com/retirement/savings/when-to-start

Lifelong member - just here for random commentary and to learn!