BobMaster

No, when you understand we can have a "real" conversation. All of those facts lead to the fact that as a whole the youth today are less righteous than the youth of yesterday. Only someone who has complete cognitive dissonance can claim with a straight face that an overall less righteous youth really means they are more valiant. The fundamental problem we are having is that the facts do not line up with what the leaders claim causing a massive cognitive dissonance where people can not even have a conversation. I don't begrudge the leaders for saying what they are saying; it's just the facts don't line up with what they claim. Let's not forget that the claim of the most awesomest, most specialist, greatest generation of youth has been taught for the last 40 years. Look, I get it-it's great to have smoke blown up your skirt, yet compared to the generation that stormed the beaches at Normandy-yeah that's all it is-smoke and mirrors. Yet, this is the most "valiant" generation of youth when half of them are protesting for BYU to allow homosexual relationships?

?? Considering how many eons and eons we have probably existed prior to this life 50 years difference is an infinitesimal small amount of time. So little that it is inconsequential. Satan learns?? Considering at one point in time God flooded the Earth because it was so wicked, I think Satan already knows how to get the world to be wicked . . .

?? And how does giving our will to Christ have anything to do with making a leader out to be a god? This scripture plainly teaches to submit to Christ, not to submit to the current leader. I really don't understand this mindset. The scriptures (i.e. the Word of God) plainly teach that great prophets oftentimes do things that are not God's Will, they aren't perfect, so don't try to make them perfect. Not everything that they say is God's Will; it's just not.

And it sounds like you and your family have done a great job raising them. Congratulations. The reason why this saying is a fallacy is that it puts the cart before the horse. Instead of focusing on what parents and leaders can do to train youth properly, it says "hey youth you guys are so awesome, so special all by yourselves". It puts the focus on supposedly innate and inherent qualities and while yes every individual comes prepackaged; it shouldn't be the focus. This kind of a teaching will lead to a rebellious youth, why? because when a child is taught to have a big ego (which is what this teaching does), they tend to believe they have a big ego and thus they can easily get as my pappy says "too big for their britches". They will tend to discard the advice of older generations because they are "special". It flips the God-ordained order around. Parents and leaders are supposed to lead and train youth not the reverse. When was the last time you heard a leader in the Church tell the youth STE "you have great leaders and parents who will mentor you; if you listen to them and pay heed to their warnings you will be instructed in right living and your lives will be much smoother"?

No, they never operate that way. Prophets don't operate by having people bend their mind and twist their insides to make something fit into an incorrect box. It's line upon line, precept upon precept. It's not-"hey turn everything you think and believe upside down and just "trust me". That's not religion, that's a cult-like mentality. Perhaps not everything that comes out of the mouth of a leader is God's Word.

No we do not share the same feelings. I don't have feelings about this, I have facts. Fact: more missionaries percentage-wise return home early than 20 years ago. Fact: missionaries call home more often than before. Fact: more youth look at pornography on a percentage basis than 20 years ago. Fact: family and raising children is less important today than 20 years ago. Fact: the youth are having less children now than ever before. Fact: the Church is losing more youth than it has previously. Fact: more youth than ever today in the Church are raised by single-mothers in divorced households. Yes, some youth are way more valiant. However, to say in a blanket statement that "the youth", i.e. as a whole are more valiant is just not accurate. It's a feel-good message that feels good but is not accurate. It's not accurate in any way.

That's not how prophets operate.

And the evidences for them being the strongest, most valiant, best prepared youth are??? It's a nice saying that gives people feel-good feelings, but where is the evidence? Missionaries need to call home once a week now, contrast with calling home 2 a year 10 years ago? That's being stronger? More missionaries come home from their mission now due to mental issues and the fact they can't hack it. That's stronger? 50% of the youth find some form of LGBTQ+ acceptable, that's valiant? It's a real nice platitude, but that's all it is. The evidence doesn't quite line up with that platitude. To me, it appears the leadership is trying to build up the youth's "self-esteem", except you can't talk somebody into having self-confidence about themselves-it only comes about by doing.

Sort of. The scripture says fruits; it doesn't say manifestation, it doesn't say it is the Holy Spirit. And it helps to read this in context. Paul states just prior to this: 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. ---- Paul is contrasting directly the works of flesh with the works of the Spirit. In other words, those items listed are the byproduct of the works of the Spirit, there are not the Spirit. In addition, you are confusing the point that I'm making. To have love, joy, peace, gentleness, goodness, faith, etc. does NOT require one to blubber with emotion all over the pulpit, it does NOT mean that to hear soaring music and to get teary eyed To manifest joy, one does not need to cry and jump up and down. To manifest love, one does not need to blubber and break down and cry. To manifest gentleness does not require one to have an emotional response. This is the very thing I'm speaking to; in modernity we have so confused emotion with Spirit, we cannot separate the two and so we think that when we hear soaring music combined with a few nice words we get an emotional twinge that we are feeling the Spirit. It is so ingrained in modernity, that people don't even know they are doing it . . .but it is very dangerous.

You can watch GC from the 70s and tell a difference, they are not emotionally incontinent . . .unlike today where you've got at least 2-3 talks each session where someone speaking will need to stop and they end up crying.

Yes, it is the only thing that can work.

Emotional "manipulation" was probably too harsh of a word. I don't doubt their sincerity; I just mean that culturally we have become emotionally incontinent. Just like those who get up and bear their testimonies who can't talk without blubbering all over the place, I have no doubt of their sincerity, as a culture we have come to accept such emotional incontinence as acceptable-this was not the case 50-60 years ago. People were expected to keep it together, they trained themselves to do so and thus when they gave talks on very weighty matters for the most part they did not blubber all over the place. I term it emotional manipulation because we have become convinced as a people that "truth" is a matter of conviction of emotion. The more "emotional" a talk makes you feel, the more true it is, because that's "the Spirit", i.e. we have confused the Spirit for emotion and that will lead to emotional manipulation. And this is unfortunate, because it is one incorrect teaching which leads people away from the Church-they have been taught that to feel emotional about something is to feel the Spirit and then they say things like, "well I was watching a really great movie and the Spirit was there", or we use soaring music to evoke emotion rather than just letting the words and truth speak for themselves. Emotion != the Holy Spirit.

Baked into the cake. The US bought into the false idea that you can have a nation with different cultures without strife and conflict. Notice I said cultures. Culture isn't about food or sports, it's about what is the highest value system. The old US culture is one which at its heart values Christianity, life, liberty and property. Importing a hodgepodge of other cultures (who's value systems are different) and then not ensuring the assimilate properly into the country leads to a deeply divided nation. Because of the Civil War, we have this silly notion in the US that we must remain a single entity; whereas the truth is that across the swath and eons of time, nations that have a significant percentage of their population who is NOT part of the dominant culture-well those countries split up, break up, have internal civil wars, etc. So yes, this nation will devolve; too many different cultures inside it all vying for power and control to make laws that reflect their culture. Most European countries have had their borders changed dramatically in the last 100 years, I'd wager the US borders will change very dramatically in the next 100. Large countries like Russia or China will stay large because while their are minority ethnicity and cultures in their borders, they are at least 75% (probably closer to 90%) one ethnicity and one culture. The biggest reason why multiple cultures in a single country cannot last is because they can't pass the stress test. When there is plenty, peace and prosperity-everyone generally gets along. In times of high stress (without assimilation), people revert back to their base value system-i.e. culture. In times of high stress, it becomes impossible for a single individual to understand how another individual of a different culture/background is going to react. If everyone (or most everyone) is the same culture, there is an instinctive assumption of how people will act during high stress. So in high stress systemic situations (pandemics, wars, etc.) individual stress is augmented even more because predicting the other cultures responses becomes impossible. This will all happen once the US dollar is trashed; you ain't seen nothing yet. Once the US dollar crashes, it's game on.

The difference being the leaders of the Church came down VERY hard in previous generations on the evils of the day. Harold B. Lee, Joseph Fielding Smith, Kimbal, Benson-they all trounced the evils of the day. Yesterday I was listening to a talk in the 70s by Benson and he was raking the coals of the immorality of music. When was the last time you ever heard a very detailed talk given from the leaders about immoral music-and I don't mean the glossed over blather of "listen to good music", no Benson was slamming clubs, he was slamming suggestive dance moves, he was slamming the lyrics, he was slamming it all. How many LDS kids listen to rap these days? When was the last time you heard a leader slam rap (and it is almost all absolutely despicable music)? We all know no leader dares to slam rap today because "that's racist"!!! If you want hard-hitting no-nonsense talks, look to the talks about 40 years ago. sidenote: another REAL interesting thing I've noticed with the talks of yesteryear, they don't get all emotional. Every once in a while they start to choke-but barely. No, they just tell it like it is and hit it with no emotional manipulation.

Just wait, it's going to be more bizzare as things flip more rapidly.

This is a great thing! (splitting of wards to smaller groups). With the significant downsizing of the Church recently, there is absolutely no reason to have large congregations-none. Wards can easily be under 100 people with all the reduction of callings. I understand you don't feel like you fit in your own Ward; but in a tighter setting you'll be surprised at how much you'll probably find in common. However, the next thing the Church should do is eliminate the requirements for people to attend wards in the same geographic area . . but that probably wont' happen for a while.

Let's see how much collective guilt we can all feel so we can create a whole new society based upon taking from those who have and giving to those who don't have.

Communism.

Well, it's actually possible that COVID was the cause of death. More and more data is coming out that this is a blood disorder; it causes micro-thrombosis in the veins. The lungs don't fill up with fluid; the tiny blood vessels are blocked and people have low oxygen b/c of it. We also don't know the long-term effects of COVID-it is highly likely that you mother might have "recovered" but not really have recovered from the damage it did to blood system. It's why so many young people have just "dropped dead" at home with no emergency calls. Heart attack from blockages caused by COVID.

There are plenty of other signs of a wicked and adulterous generation besides "seeking for a sign". Primarily hypocrisy; which is what Christ was calling out. Hypocrisy because they seek for signs, but do not believe signs.

Isn't that a sign of a wicked and adulterous generation?

Plenty of things in life are a "red flag", things like, growing up in a broken home (i.e. divorced parents), or growing up in an abusive home, or lack of motivation, playing video games all day or too much focus on work. Would you advise someone marry an individual who comes from a divorced home? I most certainly would advise against it, and growing up in a divorced home will have by far more impact on future married life than pornography usage. The same goes for marrying someone who was verbally/emotionally/physically abused as a child-way, way worse impacts later in life than pornography usage. There will never be the "perfect" husband or "perfect" wife. It's about picking what faults you are willing to life with (and if you think your spouse doesn't have faults, you are either naive or willfully blind), and then once married not focusing on those faults. Sometimes as LDS, we hyper-focus on the active sins but ignore underlying issues that absolutely will cause major problems in marital relationships-such as being raised by a single-mother, or being abused as a child. We seem to have compassion for the young adult raised in a divorced home or being abused and tell our youth, "don't judge them" b/c it's not their fault. Yet then condemn a young man for looking at porn b/c it is his fault. Except when the truth is laid bare, how you were raised as a child will have much greater impact on the kind of spouse you are vs. pornography.