VisionOfLehi

The African descent was do to being descendants of Ham. I don't find it offensive that you think women should have the priesthood. Sometime they will (not necessarily before the 2nd Coming, but I don't know). But I find it offensive that you say that's man-made doctrine and not God-given. As for the whole "women being angry" argument against polygamy... You think it'd be so fantastic to be a man with more than one wife? Wives have needs, just like everyone else. Husbands are supposed to take care of some of those needs. Add in another wife or two and he's got a lot more on his plate. What about the constant worrying about whether you treat one better than another? Do you love them all the same, or one more? Does it show? Are they angry at you? And I spent a few days in a house with 4 females (12, 15, 18, mom... there was a 10 yr old, too but she wasn't a problem ), and the CATTINESS and difficulty there was. The dad was pretty weary dealing with just them and their needs, and only one was a wife! It's not all sex and games. I'm a recent convert, too. 19 months. I don't feel as if there were things I wasn't taught because they wanted to keep it from me. "Oh, by the way." I went into it KNOWING I didn't know all of the doctrine, but knowing I wasn't ready for all of it, that I had to learn basics first. If you get a testimony of the Lord, and the Book of Mormon, and modern prophets, then the rest comes with that in time. Some of it bothered me when I joined! But I decided to get baptized with the thought "Right now I don't know or like all of it, but I know it's because it's all new to me, and that eventually I'll understand." Lastly, here's a quote for you:

According to ancient Jews, Christ Himself was breaking laws.

If God told me to speed through a red light, then I would. Is that likely to happen? No. It's called obedience. And, my thoughts on polygamy hardly matter. It's what the LORD says, not what I think.

I wish I had a family to set straight! LOL!

There are times when the unjust laws must be done away with. Times when obedience to the Lord means disobeying the laws of the land. Times when, even without the Lord's say so, that disobeying the laws are good. I have two words for you: American Revolution.

I agree that it affects how well we're able to focus on the Spirit, I just wanted to point out that they couldn't completely drive it away.

That makes me wonder what the government system was like back then. Is it made illegal in the IL constitution? Did IL have any way for local governments to govern themselves? What about religious practices and tolerance of them? Was their any sort of "appeal" process that could've happened? Was it unconstitutional to disallow it? I don't know the answer to those questions, but here's another: Are the laws of man to be obeyed before the Laws of God? No. We believe in obeying the law, and being subject to rulers, but if the Lord gives a commandment, it's to be obeyed.

WRONG It's because GOD makes it so. He has not given the Priesthood to be held by women. You're accusing the Church of keeping something from you, and I find it highly offensive. You need to go think about whether or not you believe in revelation from the Lord, because it's VITAL and CENTRAL to our Church, and you seem to have a huge doubt about it. I think before you start accusing us of being unfair, or somehow sexist, that you need to read up on the doctrine of revelation and personal revelation, and read some testimonies of the same.

I'm sure in an entire ward there's at least 2 people there who want to focus on Him! Edit: Would just like to point out that one of the points of that promise is that even amidst the turmoil of the world, persecutors, unrighteous, etc., the Spirit can still be with those faithful. We don't have to dismay because of others... The Lord will still bless us.

Probably water, but who knows what He'd do with it!

http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/11149-what-laws.html Official Declaration 1 Articles of Faith 1 Those should do the trick.

I love it, too. Would be great over a front door.

I think socializing is more "chatting." Casual conversation. Fellowshipping is getting to know someone. Making them welcome, giving them a place. It has the intent of showing them love, and not just "talking." Edit: Rame: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, as I said unto my disciples, where two or three are gathered together in my name, as touching one thing, behold, there will I be in the midst of them—even so am I in the midst of you." The Spirit isn't chased away, but our focus on it, is!

A fitting quote: "..choose you this day whom ye will serve...but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. "

Biological traits are NOT completely different. They're not exactly the same, but they aren't different. Biological traits are ALSO offered by God. HE created YOU, HE gave you those traits. We believe that there's spiritual, not just physical, differences between men and women! "And the spirit and the body are the soul of man." And people HAVE given you answers. Because you don't accept them doesn't make that fact untrue.

Please not that it's not saying women don't have the Priesthood because they can have babies. It's merely a parallel.

First you need to accept that men are holders of the Priesthood on this earth. In this history of your posts, this seems to be the hurdle you still have not gotten over and won't accept. The plural wives while alive is an extension of the Holy Priesthood. In time, there will be Priestesses, but we don't have that law yet. We don't know how that will affect the plural spouse law. Normal, there is no evidence that Joseph slept with anyone other than Emma. That's not a good example. That's not why he was sealed to so many women. There have been numerous topics on this board about that issue, you should take a look at one. Also, no women in any of the early polygamist relationships were ever forced to do it. And no, in Heaven, God will not make you be in a situation that you're uncomfortable with. His LAW will not change, but your nearness to His presence will. (This meaning for all circumstances.)

Back home they played music after Sacrament until people cleared out. And then there was prelude music before Priesthood. Priesthood was usually easier to hear, though, because it was less people than the full ward. But generally tough to here anyway. I do have my own solution, though, and some might call it sacrilegious, but my iPod has a bunch of hymns and gospel music on it. People can't complain about that, though! Not with their PDA's with their scriptures and lesson books on them!

Adding on to this, it reminds me of a lesson in Church that I rather liked (But was accused of not paying attention to! Haha!) This same topic was paralleled to bones in women. As children and youth, girls who are physically active build up calcium in their bones. The activity causes those micro fractures that the body repairs and makes stronger. This activity in youth makes stronger bones, and decreases the chance and severity of osteoporosis in the later years. If we're diligent and obedient, then that will help us even when there's not a crisis, but during times when faith falters. In my experience, some weeks and even some months it's harder to want to be "active" in the Church, but the experiences and faith I've built up beforehand keep me going. I don't get osteoporosis of faith. Also, I love milk, but it makes my breath stinky.

Reading this thread again reminds me of one aspect of the "social club" kind of thing that DOES bother me. People sticking around the chapel in the "between" time to chat, and not quietly. There's been plenty of times when I was trying hard to hear the music being played but it was drowned out by chatter.

Oh but you ordered Diet Coke! HEATHEN! Lol. So did Skal. And I thought so highly of him... Kidding! I'm just glad no one ordered wine! I hate alcohol. >_< The smell alone makes me sick. I see a lot of people saying they wouldn't allow it in their homes... But is it as easy as saying that? Standing up to family is a bit harder than just saying "My way or the highway." The no booze/smoking and no sharing a bedroom are the kinds of rules I think should be enforced... But what about Prison's example of coffee? Tea? We do have to remember that the rest of the world doesn't have our standards, they aren't subject to them. While they should respect ours, we should also respect that they're different. Happy medium, then? Don't compromise our core values, and don't force others to abide by our other "rules."

They make fun of EVERYone.

Some just seem to get caught up on the Priesthood/Males issue. But no one ever complains that God sent a male Savior!

There are inherit differences in gender. One is not greater than the other, but they are different. Read The Family: A Proclamation to the World. It's not sexist (just to stamp that spark out before it gets started.) Polygamy has been mentioned throughout the Bible. Rules regarding it have also been taught. It's how it is.

Lowest legal age of marriage: CA- No minimum age with parental consent. MA- Females 12 with parental consent and/or permission of judge. MS- No minimum age, parental consent and/or permission of judge only. Females can be 15 and need to consent. MO- 15, with parental consent. Possibly younger under certain circumstances. NH, NY, TX- Males 14, females 13, with parental AND judge consent. States with a minimum age with consent at 15-18 which can be lower (usually down to 14) under special circumstances, due to pregnancy, with parental consent (and usually a court order): AK, AZ, AR, CO, CT, DE, FL, GA, ID, IN, KS, LA, ME, MD, NV, NJ, NM, NC, OH, OK, PA, RI, SC, SD, TN, VA, WA, WV, WY, PR Total: 36/50 states, or 72%, which allow the marriage of individuals under the age of 15-18, depending on the judge and parents.