VisionOfLehi

We show our love to Heavenly Father by being good husbands, wives, parents, and children. We do it by service to our family, as well as our brother's and sisters. The importance is always Heavenly Father, in the highest. Yet this does not mean constantly on your knees or doing Church activities to the exclusion of all else. The Family: A Proclamation to the World points out what we should be doing, in regards to family. As Latter-day Saints, we believe fairly strongly in what's taught in James 2. (Follow link for highlighted verses.) Faith without works is dead. Being a proper, loving, family member (whatever role that you may have in your family), is a sign of obedience and a work.

In Church or outside, I have trouble occasionally learning new doctrine. Members who are misinformed will often contribute what they believe is official doctrine, and some times it's just not. Per my ex-girlfriend, I found out that men in the Celestial Kingdom will have an average of seven wives each. Women are so much more naturally righteous that they will vastly outnumber men. Now, this was taught in her Young Women's class. I, with some basic research, have not been able to find anything remotely suggesting this. I was quite sure it wasn't doctrine, but it caused an argument anyway. As a new member, moments like these can be very frustrating. I've found out that unless Scripture is directly quoted, I can't be sure of what I'm learning. I have to go home and research it. (Not that Scripture searching is a bad thing.) That being said: My Gospel Doctrine teacher is awesome. He likes to stick to the lesson, sometimes emphasizing certain aspects (especially when time is short.) People raise their hands to ask him questions or bring up points. He's generally prepared enough that he can answer. When he's saying what HE believes, he'll make a comment such as "Now, this is the Gospel according to Brother E." It's nice when that distinction is given.

While it's not published with the Standard Works, there is a piece of modern scripture that mentions, to some extent, a heavenly mother. This being: The Family: A Proclamation to the World The second paragraph: It does not name a heavenly mother, but it makes it clear that it's not just Heavenly Father who is our immortal parent.Here's a link to the whole Proclamation: The Family: A Proclamation to the World Edit: Woah, totally didn't see that there's 6 pages. Hope this isn't a repeat.

Is senility a factor?

I believe most of Christianity believes that the only true way to God is through Christ. Not even the LDS Church contends that. We just believe WE have to do a little bit more, out of love for God, which is the greatest of all commandments (in Christianity.)

It wasn't meant to be taken that way. I meant it in the sense that "This should be really obvious... even I know it already." Kinda... more being a smart aleck than anything else

I'd like to point out the Gospels in the New Testament, and some of the differences between them, especially in John. It's the same story, but the accounts are different in several spots.

19 was when I was baptized. I'm not sure when I believed. I believed in God a couple months before that... But I think my testimony of Christ has come over the past year. Cloud9 amuses me. I've seen many "Truth" sources, myself. In fact, my first couple months of investigation of the Church involved such material. Aside from having holes, misconceptions, purposefully twisted "facts" (that even as an investigator I was able to see were flippant), they have such a spirit of... contention to them, that I can't see how they're filled with the Light.

You're not. The vision didn't change, but the parts he chose to emphasize for others' learning did.

Why not Judas and them? Simple answer, really, is the JST. Which I actually don't like in this verse.

Saved does not equal attaining the highest degree of glory.

Do we not use personage for the Holy Ghost, too? I may be having a brain fart on that. I know the First Vision it talks about the 2, the Father and the Son... I may have added the Holy Ghost on my own. o.o

Personages is used, in my mind, for dual reasons: One: It implies the importance of the 3 Personages we refer to. The Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost. Two: It clarifies that we mean the Godhead consists of three separate entities. They're each personages, not "aspects" or different "forms" of the same person.

I believe the same thing. That God knows what choices we'd make anyway. He's omniscient and knows each of us perfectly. We have the ability to choose, yes. We have free agency. But just because we can choose, doesn't mean God doesn't know what we'll do. And just because God knows what we'll do, doesn't mean we don't have a choice. Now, this isn't doctrine here, but I believe it firmly: I do not think we are here on Earth so much to prove to God what choice we'll make, so much us to prove to OURSELVES what choices we'll make. I know we also need a physical body, and have to be fallen in order to be raised up by Christ... But I don't think Agency is meant to prove anything to Him. He already knows. I also believe Agency means that God will not FORCE us to do anything. He knows we're going to do this or that, but with that knowledge He's not going to MAKE us. It means God did not stop them and make them not turn away. Likewise, an important moment in history: So, some things are forbidden, but that doesn't mean we can't actually do them. Does any of this negate repentance? I don't think so at all! Repentance, I believe, has more to do than just making that choice to be repentant and ask for forgiveness. We take part of something, and make it active! Think of it as pushing a button (of repentance.) Heavenly Father knows if we'll push the button or not. Nevertheless, we don't activate the repentance until we push the button! Which, therefore, in the end explains my opinion on why we're not judged solely on what we would've done (even if God knows perfectly.) We still need to do our part. We need to press the button of repentance, as well as the buttons of the ordinances set forth by God.

I think an important thing to mention, if it hasn't already been, is the Godhead. Several questions asked seem to related to understanding the Godhead. We do not believe in the Trinity as set forth in the Nicene Creed. We believe the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are 3 distinct personages. Briefly on the Holy Ghost, or the Holy Spirit: The mission of the Holy Ghost is to testify of Christ. He is a Spirit, and his exact nature we do not know, nor do we believe we need to.

Context ISN'T everything, Sir. I may be a new member, but even I am familiar with many of the scripture masteries, including: D&C 42:19 does not say "but he that killeth shall be put to death" If you read verse 18, you get what, in my opinion, makes more sense. If you kill, you will not have forgiveness in this world, or the next. That IS death. It is spiritual death. Verse 19 clarifies this. Going on in that same chapter, we get the TEMPORAL punishment for killing, which is not to be slain in turn.

Just posting bits... Didn't read EVERY post, but I skimmed. Just throwing these out there... I wouldn't vote for the death penalty myself. This is my stance. I love the Anti-Nephi-Lehites, too. I've not been commanded!

Purple.

I've not written up my conversion story, but I'll get to it at some point. But, this is an INTRO board, so I'll just do that. I suppose it'll have my ultra condensed conversion story. Name's Grayson. I spent junior high and high school being agnostic and against organized religion in general. Hated it. Got involved with an LDS girl. Hated the idea of church, loved the values. Some of them were already my own. Turns out it wasn't all so bad. Toss in a little Alma 32:21 and a whole lotta hope that the Priesthood, the Gospel, and Eternal Families were true, and you have yourself a baptism on Dec. 3rd, 2006. (A fast Sunday, and my 19th birthday.) I plan on going to BYU-I at some point, once the cash is at hand. Not sure what I'll study after GenEds, but I have plenty of time to consider that. Love kids. Can't wait to have some of my own. I fancy myself an artist and a writer, but I don't do enough of either. I feel tempted to put up my profile from a single's site, LOL. It has plenty about me in it. If you catch me being blue, I just went through a break up. So every now and then I get moments where it's pretty rough. But, I've been doing a pretty good job of avoiding all that. Until I get a more... time consuming job, I'll probably be on here more than I should! Hope to talk to ya'

Ah, but there's several times in the BoM where the Nephites were the evil doers and unbelievers, and the Lamanites were more righteous than they. And furthermore, it's stated early on that there were many more tribes, but for simplicity sake they were lumped together. Going off on this... They intermarried amongst the tribes, converted, fell, converted again... There was a lot of switching around and mingling. Referring to anyone these days as a descendant of a Lamanite is really not saying anything more than: "They are descendants of father Lehi or his household, or Zoram and his household, or Ishmael and any of his household." Since, based on accounts in the BoM, we should assume there was a fair amount of mixing and tribe-switching that those original ancestors were ancestors for each tribe, or the Nephites and Lamanites at the very least. IN OTHER WORDS: I think the whole thing about "Lamanites" is pointless. In the context of scripture study and such, it helps us know who the scriptures are talking about, and it's great! When referring to "Native Americans"... not so much.

I've not read all of the Bible, and have only had one read through of the Book of Mormon, and about the 1st quarter of D&C. But, I've got favorites! And, thus: I like them so much because they helped me figure out that I needed to be baptized. I hoped for the BoM, and all the stuff I'd learned, to be true, and let faith come from that. I also enjoy the following, which I discovered through my ex. Emphasis added to the parts I particularly enjoy. I know I have more, but they evade me at the moment!

When referring to me by my religious affiliation (which I do not mind at all, since it is a large part of my identity), I have my preference. Is my preference ever acknowledged? Very rarely. I will tell people I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and call my religion LDS for short. People general aren't sure what I'm talking about, so I'll add "Mormon" to my chagrin. I don't agree with the "Mormon" label, because there are other churches, such as the Community of Christ, which believe in the Book of Mormon. I'm sure they're great people, but I'm not them, and I don't identify with them. So, I try to steer away from "Mormon." But, I still have not clearly come to what I would prefer to be called. If you look closely at our scriptures and even the name of our Church, you will find it. It is the the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am a saint. I'd prefer to be referred to as a Latter-day Saint, or a Saint. I'm not "an LDS", or "a Mormon", or a "member", as my identity. However, I am a Latter-day Saint.

I'm taking a turn from this topic, a bit. I am not addressing the original starter of this topic. That's a dead end. Nevertheless, it's certainly sparked some interesting things to research! First off, let me start with an OT quote. It's Jeremiah 26 Here is a specific time when a prophet has told the condition "unless you repent" to the people he is confronting. I'm extremely confident that if one studies the scriptures, they will find that this is actually a condition for ALL such prophesies of destruction. I'm vaguely aware of some supposed exceptions, but in those instances the people were told that they had already lost their chance to repent. God does not say we will be able to repent whenever we want. God does not change His mind. I do not believe this. For an Eternal being with all knowledge and power, it seems... false. His "changing of mind" isn't really that. He's already told us that His punishments will occur unless we repent. I know a famous prophecy in the Church that is cited as being false. It concerned the destruction of the US government because of Missouri's wrongdoings against the Saints. However... it's not in our Scriptures, which means it's not been testified to a prophet AND his apostles. Also, we have no idea what the Lord would consider a "redress" (as the "prophecy" says) for the wrongdoing. I think most of the "false prophecies" are such instances. Likewise, I believe BLESSINGS that are prophesied are much contingent upon the parties involved being fully obedient to the Lord. Like the global condition "unless you repent" for punishment, I think there's as much evidence in the scriptures to show that blessings all have the condition "if you are obedient and keep my commandments." Interested to hear feedback on this.

If you want to fight the secret combinations then you need to read the Book of Mormon and Scriptures daily, study and feast upon the Word of Christ, keep the commandments, and this ensure a closeness to the Holy Spirit so that you can pray to Heavenly Father and ask Him what you can do, and be all the more able to actual hear and understand His answer. Bringing in political slander is not part of it. Also, you are wrong on the whole "out of the sea" thing. To the best of my knowledge (which I'll admit is limited) there is no doctrine completely clarifying any of that. The beasts could be symbolic, or literal, or both. Once it becomes necessary to know with surety, I'm confident the Prophet and the Apostles will inform us with the knowledge. While I agree we should be trying to thwart Satan and his plot, starting a little "crusade", so to speak, against it is the wrong way to go about it. You can't just do what you think is right. You need to go to Heavenly Father.