cdowis

LDS church and race RESPONSE (update) Here is what we actually believe http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/racial-remarks-in-washington-post-article Growth of the church in Africa https://youtu.be/DHGJM93LRKU http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865638671/Major-LDS-growth-in-Africa-unaffected-by-priesthood-restriction-Elder-Sitati-says.html http://www.ldsliving.com/Church-Announces-Temple-Groundbreakings-in-Africa-and-South-America/s/80772?utm_source=ldsliving&utm_medium=email A contribution to Black History and Ancestry http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/historic-freedmen-records-released Here is Elder Dube, a General Authority from Africa speaking in the world-wide General Conference https://youtu.be/Ndt159Pa3J4 Humanitarian efforts http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/one-hundred-thousand-africans-find-joy-in-continent-wide--mormon-helping-hands--project https://youtu.be/UiHe9MfMmQ8

The question you may want to consider is whether you only go when it is possible for her to go. Why not go with her on your usual time, but still go an additional time when she is unavailable. Otherwise, what may appear to be noble is merely an excuse to limit the number of times you go. Give it some thought.

The church put out a video where they showed a church meeting in Harlem. It was interesting that the church choir was singing "praise music" in the background. oops......

Have grandchildren under the age of eight. Which children's Book of Mormon with pictures and easy text do you recommend?.

del

You have now discovered that the antiMormons have deceived you on what we actually believe. The Bible tells us that we will be judged on our works, but the works themselves do not save us. This should help you understand the relationship between the Justice of God (judgment for works) and His mercy (Grace, the Atonement). They are are inseparable.

Please start a new thread. This topic is on apologetics.

CRITIC Experts agree that the Book of Mormon is not historical, etc RESPONSE Interesting video,but based on a false premise as it applies to our religion. Let's illustrate with two examples: 1. Let us take the example of quantum mechanics. The laws in that realm are contrary to common sense, to our experience in the real world that we live. (You will have to do your own research on what I mean -- e.g. entangled particles)) So, you go to an expert on the real world (whatever that means) and you describe some of the really weird stuff that actually happen in that reality. The expert gives his expert opinion that this is utter nonsense, it just does not happen, impossible. Now you go to someone who has personal experience in this field and discover that these things happen in that world. The laws of the natural world as our previous expert knows them, do not necessarily apply in the quantum world. I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. ~ Richard Feynman 2. Astronomy. We want to understand and test some principles in astfonomy, so we go to a self-proclaimed expert, to a world recognized astrologer. Yes, he knows something about the heavenly bodies, but is not a credible expert on astronomy itself. Indeed, he may even distort or misrepresent what actual astronomers teach. "They don't know what they are talking about, so listen to me." The antiMormons are the astrologers who do not understand, but pretend to be experts on what Mormons believe. They quote out of context, they misrepresent their beliefs, they pretend to be experts when, in fact, they are ignorant of the facts. Apologetics is my hobby, and doing this for over 30 years. Like quantum mechanics, I may not have all the answers, but I do know the tricks that the deceivers use. God Himself has given us the means to test whether the Book of Mormon is true. YOU yourself them become the expert, the one who finds out form himself whether these things are true. As Christ said to Peter Matt 16 [16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

This is a typical mixture of truth and misinformation. The church never said that the witnesses "never saw the plates", and your friend thinks that people will trust him and not check him out. The other popular technique is to "summarize" what someone says. "BY said that there are people living on the moon and on the sun." He did not say that. "JS was arrested 42 times according to wiki". They forget to mention that he was not convicted. "JS was convicted as a con man." The records contract themselves on whether he was convicted ( as a disorderly person). "JS practiced lah blah blah". Paul threw Christians into prison, and participated in the stoning death of Stephen. The church leaders get a six figure income. (gives the impression of enormous sums of money)

Perhaps you can share with us how they shrredded that theory, considering that very few, if any, non-LDS scholars have read the BOM. In fact, tell us about those scholars == who are these mysterious scholars who have studied these issues from a book "delivered by an angel". Suspect we will find their names prominent on youtube videos "shredding" a book that they have never read. But let's see what you got.

OK, please share with us those other speculative, plausible possibilities.

I am aware of this, but this is Youtube and any post has to be rather brief or it will be ignored.

An interesting theory has been proposed that they were not just wandering around in circles all this time, but actually lived among the inhabitants, possibly as slaves (?!). In fact some of the natives joined up with them and were on the ship traveling to America. I didn't read the entire article, so I don't know the details of the theory. But it does help to clear up some of the population numbers that have been troubling.

Perhaps loyalty and devotion to wife and family can supplant romantic passion. Such a notion is impossible to conceive in our world of abject selfishness, to those who seek the "flavor of the month", or see it as trading in the old model for the new one.

Getting back to the OP topic, the problem will soon get worse with the new policy of placing names submitted over two years ago into the general temple pool. Fight now I suppose there are many thousands of names which are being held by the members that will now be released into the general temple population. I am a senior citizen, and have trouble walking and standing so I use a walker. I feel the temple could encourage the brethren with such handicaps by letting them know that the temple will make special accommodations for them. I don't go now because I just don't know how that will work o me == do I have to use a wheelchair, even though I can use a walker?

CRITIC Do you deny we are justified by faith (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8) and not by faith and a ceremony (Rom. 4:1-11)? RESPONSE I do not think we would agree on what the prophets mean by the word "justify". I think you do not know what "things of the kingdom of God" that Christ taught for forty days to His disciples in Acts 1:2-43. I think that you believe that the Bible is complete, despite these forty days of teaching doctrines, for which we have no record. I believe that those who have faith in Christ, and follow the teachings and His example, with the light that they possess, will live with Christ, will be "saved in heaven", but not in the presence of the Father. The promise Christ gave in John 17:19-23 and Revelation 3:21 will be available to those who enter the presence and reside with the Father. If you are content with what you have, then be content that the heaven you believe in will be available to you,. I truly wish you all the best.

CRITIC Do not add to the Bible. Rev 22:18-19 RESPONSE 1. A very basic question == when did he bible become available to the early Christians? As one elderly lady said, "If the King James Bible was good enough for Paul, then it is good enough for me." Do you truly understand the problem with your statement, "adding to the Bible"? . 2. For me, the Bible is like a glass. It is NOT the word of God, it CONTAINS the word of God as well as the words of man. It often refers to other books and text which are no longer extant. In First Corinthians, Paul refers to a previous epistle to them. The modern Bible has a front and back cover, and did the early Christians conceive of such a thing. To them, it was a living Bible, with no back cover. Many centuries later, for convenience they took the various scrolls which represented individual books and epistles and bound it into one book. With respect to your beliefs, we disagree on the very nature of what is scripture and the word of God. So, I would respond that your assumption of a closed canon fails the test. We will just have to agree to disagree, I suppose. PS Rev 22:18-19 refers not to the non-existent Bible (at that time) but the "sayings of the prophecy of this book". See verses 7, 9-10

CRITIC Comoros and Moroni RESPONSE Lehi and family traveled thu the Arabian peninsula for many years, and certainly associated with the local tribes. Now, an interesting fact is that among the early inhabitants of Comoros were ARABS (see wiki) and Arabic is one of the official languages. While I admit the Arabic connection is rather tentative, it is possible that it connects the BOM names with the Arabic names in Comoros. There is evidence that Lehi, et al, were not the only families on the ship to America, but also included some of their Arab neighbor.

ACCUSATION Hugh Nibley and accusation of rape by his daughter Martha Nibley Beck. RESPONSE Here are the facts from someone personally acquainted with the facts. Judge for yourself https://youtu.be/7dhXypt3BIc?t=1m6s

cough!

bump

CRITIC God is a spirit. Mormons worship a false God. RESPONSE Mormons are Bible believing Christians. You can accuse us of worshiping a false God, but be prepared for a Biblical response. The God that I worship literally made man in His image, even as Seth was in the likeness, in the image of Adam. We believe that Christ was he Son of God, and declared "when ye have seen me, ye have seen the Father." Christ made a point after the resurrection that He had a body of flesh and bones, being in the form of God, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men, and was seen of Stephen standing on the right hand of God the Father. We believe in the God of that Christ taught us in John 17:19-23, the God of the Bible, and reject the false God of the "one substance entity" of the Nicene Creed. Christ refuted that false God many times in the Bible, and will be happy to show you if you are interested.

Were you aware that it is OFFICIAL doctrine of the church that the teacher must stand in front of the room to teach a lesson?? Just kidding. In this case I move around the room == I even go in the back of the room, in middle and to the side. When a class member is speaking, I move AWAY from the person so that they will speak up. I have even sat down in a chair in the back or middle. It also takes the focus from the teacher, and on the teaching material. The key is to keep the interest of the class regardless of where they are sitting, and you get more class participation, rather than from the same old people. I got this idea from a professor at Columbia University. You might start the class by sitting in the back as they come in, and then start the class off from there.

I know of a family who fasted on Thanksgiving.

Here is a video of the Regional Meeting for the SLC area. VERY interesting.