cdowis

I learned that I have very poor people skills, and would be best suited for a career in digging ditches or as a night watchman.

CRITIC God is immutable, never changing RESPONSE Well, let's see. He was a spirit, he then was born with a mortal body, he then died, AND the resurrected with a physical body. Please explain how you believe that he was both immutable, AND changing. Also Christ LEARNED obedience and was MADE perfect. He progressed in this life. Heb 5 [8] Though he were a Son, yet *learned he obedience* by the things which he suffered; [9] *And being made perfect*, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Let's take another example -- the doctrine of the Nicene Creed, that the Father and the Son is a ONE substance entity. But Christ Himself refutes the "one substance entity" doctrine: --Not my will, but thine be done -- Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father (after the resurrection) -- The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. -- John 7 [16] Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. [17] If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. Christ was resurrected with a physical body of flesh and bones, and Historic Christians believe that God is a spirit. If they are ONE substance, which is it?? A body of flesh and bones or a spirit?

CRITIC Can you provide one scripture, which viewed through your particular lens, shows Heavenly Mother, Father, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit became Gods through progression? RESPONSE He who hath ears, let him hear. Heb 5 [8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; [9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Heb 1 [2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; John 17:19-23, specifically [22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: [23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Rev 3 [21] To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

It's Joseph Smith as leader of the Nauvoo Legion.

CRITIC "The Mormon God was once sinful man" RESPONSE This is not a doctrine of our church. We believe what Christ tells us, John 5 [19] Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but *what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise*. The Son is following the path of the Father, and both are sinless from eternity.

Chaperone for what? Normally an adult Melch priesthood holder. Put a mirror in front of his mouth, and if it fogs up, it means that he qualifies (he is breathing).

Ask the missionaries themselves, since their very lives, health and happiness depend on the answer. Otherwise I would check with a counselor in the bishopric, since the mission leader is a ward calling, NOT a stake position. If still in doubt, give it to the Relief Society's capable hands. ******** Do NOT give it to the Elder's quorum or HP **********

My wife and I were in a couple's ward at BYU. I don't know how many wards were sharing the building but our sacrament meeting started at 5:00 pm. Fast meeting was really tough.

CRITIC "My stance is that no religion has met it's burden of proof. Belief and faith are not evidence, they are on the same level as assumptions and opinions. " RESPONSE You have answered your own question with your assumption. While technically you are correct, your use of these words is like the person who hears "spooky interaction" (in quantum physics) and thinks this means talking with ghosts, or "string theory", and talking about stinging pearls on a string. You are saying "belief and faith"' as if you actually know what it means, based on how others have used these words. The very first step is to forget what others have told you about religion. Unfortunately, this topic goes beyond the scope of this forum. Here is something very basic that you may find helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SBxUcV1L7A

Go to this page and do a search for youtube. https://www.udemy.com/courses/ The are many courses which will help you and many of them are only $20-50.. Also check out skillshare. You can get a 3 month premium membership for 99 cdnts, and take every course. https://www.skillshare.com/search?query=youtube

CRITIC Racism RESPONSE The split between the Northern and Southern Baptist organizations arose over doctrinal issues pertaining to slavery and the education of slaves. At the time of the split, the Southern Baptist group used the curse of Cain as a justification for slavery. Some 19th- and 20th-century Baptist ministers in the Southern United States taught that there were two separate heavens; one for blacks, and one for whites.[22] Baptists have taught or practiced various forms of racial segregation well into the mid-to-late-20th century, though members of all races were accepted at worship services.[23] In 1995, the Southern Baptist Convention officially denounced racism and apologized for its past defense of slavery.[24] The curse of Cain was used to support a ban on ordaining blacks to most Protestant clergies until the 1960s in both the United States and Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_and_mark_of_Cain This was not a doctrine of the LDS church, but an expression of personal opinion by certain church leaders. Here is what the church teaches: see https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng

CRITIC JS was a treasure seeker RESPONSE And Paul persecuted the Christians and threw them into prison. God has His own particular idea on who will be His prophets. They may be mortal and flawed, but He really knows best.

CRITIC Science vs religion RESPONSE A scientist will consider the imponderable contradictions of quantum mechanics with reality, such as the Copenhagn effect, without wincing, but bring up similar issues regarding science and religion, there a loud howls of "intellectual dishonesty" and derision for anyone who is bold enough to be open minded on the issues.(cdowis) I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. ~Richard Feynman Quantum mechanics is perhaps the most successful theory in the history of science. It enables physicists, chemists, and technicians to calculate and predict the outcome of a vast number of experiments and to create new and advanced technology based on the insight into the behavior of atomic objects. But it is also a theory that challenges our imagination. It seems to violate some fundamental principles of classical physics, principles that eventually have become a part of western common sense since the rise of the modern worldview in the Renaissance. -- Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

CRITIC God does not change. RESPONSE Is God changeable? You have a problem here with the Bible, because the trinity god could never be Jesus a man, die and be resurrected with a body. He would not have been "made perfect" by learning obedience. He would not have a different "will" from the Father. Heb 5 [8] Though he were a Son, yet *learned he obedience* by the things which he suffered; [9] And *being made perfect*, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Luke 24 [39] Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for** a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have**. Christ to the Father Matt 26 [39]...let this cup pass from me: nevertheless *not as I will, but as thou wilt*. You know nothing about the nature of God

CRITIC The burden of proof lies on you to prove that the BOM is authentic. RESPONSE I have absolutely no interest in proving anything to you. That is something between you and God. Now if you want to convince ME that is is false, let's see what you got. You need to be able to explain etc etc

CRITIC God is unnecessary for the creation of the universe (revised) RESPONSE Divinity uses natural laws in the creation process, including gravity, evolution, etc. Matter and natural laws are eternal. "But why, dear fellow, is God necessary at all?" He is similar to an artist. He uses the materials and tools at hand, such as pigments, canvas, brushes, the principle of perspective, etc, to create his masterpiece. Creation is the process of ORGANIZATION of materials in chaos. The ability of raw matter to self-organize is very limited

Google earth shows shortcut to Mormon chapel.

CRITIC Mountain Meadows Massacre and BY RESPONSE This is the "proof" that Bagley presents for this theory, and a response to to Bagley's claim http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/fair-conferences/2003-fair-conference/2003-shining-new-light-on-the-mountain-meadows-massacre In the case of Will Bagley, he started with the premise that Brigham Young ordered it done and that’s been suggested for years.... As far as evidence, again, on the first of September Brigham Young met with a bunch of Paiutes; sub-chiefs brought up to Salt Lake by Jacob Hamblin. Dimick Huntington wrote in this journal (he was in the meeting) that Brigham Young said, ‘You can have the cattle on the California road.’ And Bagley makes a lot of that as a smoking gun kind of thing. In fact at one time he thought that was going to make his book. But as it turns out he also told the Utes that, he also told the Shoshone that. He was trying to get the Indians on his side in the coming Utah War; he thought there was going to be a big fight. Other than that, I don’t know of any verifiable evidence at all that Brigham Young ordered that. The only other piece of the story that might suggest that he did is that just before the massacre happened, George A. Smith was sent on a long speech-making trip through Southern Utah. We don’t know a lot of what he said in his speeches. We know about some of what he said but they were tough speeches about standing up to the army and the Americans and it was incendiary. And so, there are those who think that Smith was sent down there with that kind of invective and then when he got done with his speech, he’d pull a stake president or a few bishops aside and say, ‘And by the way don’t hesitate to kill anybody you can.’ But that’s all speculation. I think most scholars who are honest about this, the trail doesn’t lead to Brigham Young.

I am confident that the church studied the issue carefully before putting this policy into place. They may have discovered that memorization of scriptures among today's youth was a roadblock, and just understanding the scripture meaning was more useful. Many years ago, my son decided not to go on a mission, and one of his excuses was that he could not memorize the discussions, which was a requirement at that time. This was before the "Teach My Gospel" program, and this new policy is an extension of that practice. "Read, Explain, Understand".

CRITIC Can't natural phenomenons just occur, without any creator? Why would God be necessary for our universe? RESPONSE Natural laws are independent of Divinity, He did not create those laws and are subject to those laws. And matter itself is eternal, not created. Now, i assume you know the relationship between scientists (pure science) and engineers. In my analogy, the scientists describe laws (pure science), whilst the engineers apply those laws into practical applications. Divinity ORGANIZES (creates) using those laws, as an artist creates (organizes) his masterpiece. He does not "create" the canvas, brushes or pigments but uses these existing elements. Basically "creation" simply means to organize, using existing materials, laws, and designs, as does a product engineer. Simple.

Alma 10 [19] .....this people should be governed by their own voices -- yea, well did he say that if the time should come that the voice of this people should choose iniquity, that is, if the time should come that this people should fall into transgression, they would be ripe for destruction.

Unfortunately this forum is not following its own rule on political discussion. The title is completely misapplied to his comment, which merely was an observation of Romney and his failed campaign. In any case, the Washington Post is no friend to conservatives.

I have the modest goal of continuing to learn to play the piano, and playing at least one hymn in church. Then blues and jazz. I am self-taught, and have found some excellent courses online. My body is near the "expiration date", so I want to see how far my piano "career" will take me in the next few years. In a couple of years you may see me on youtube.

Recent debate between apologist and critic.

CRITIC Joseph Smith had 40 wives, some of whom were already married, and others who were 14 years old. (revised) RESPONSE "some were already married" There are two types of marriage -- temporal and spiritual marriages. Spiritual marriages are sealings for eternity only. These women already had another husband, in a temporal marriage, and their "marriage" to Joseph Smith were for eternity only. "14 years old" Permission was granted from both the father as well as the young lady. While unusual, it was permitted -- the King of England, Henry VII, was born to the queen when she was only 13 years old.