cdowis

The Maya began trading in the Pre-Classic period, about 300 BC, and continued to do so with increasing enthusiasm throughout the Classic period (A.D. 250-900). Trade intensified even in the Post-Classic period, when the culture was in decline, and only stopped completely when the Maya themselves ceased to exist as a political entity. The Maya traded both luxury items and objects designed for everyday use: feathers, gold, jade, amber and quartz, honey, animal pelts, manta, vegetable dyes, copal incense, herbal medicines, dried chile peppers and household ceramics. http://www.mayankids.com/mmkpeople/mksailing.htm

Joseph Smith bragged -- bragged greater than Christ RESPONSE John 14 [12] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

"spiritual eyes" -- Martin Harris 1. Stephen Burnett is repeating a story which he alone is a witness and is contradicited by every statement by Harris .In the very same year that he left the church. I find it interesting that you can give it any credibility. If Harris had indeed made such a statement IN PUBLIC, there should be many witnesses to such an "amazing" story. but NADA, NOTHING, NOBODY ELSE MENTIONS IT In this public meeting of members of the church he stands alone. 2. Gilbert's account was given many years afterward but pretends to give the entire conversation word of word. We can only guess the exact words that Harris said, but I agree he probably did use the phrase "spiritual eyes". 3. You missed these accounts "Well, just as plain as you see that chopping block, I saw the plates; and sooner than I would deny it I would lay my head upon that chopping block and let you chop it off.[1] George Mantle recalls what Martin Harris said while he was in Birmingham on a mission for the Strangites. This was well after Martin had left the Church: When we came out of the meeting Martin Harris was beset with a crowd in the street, expecting that he would furnish them with material to war against Mormonism; but when he was asked if Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, he answered yes; and when asked if the Book of Mormon was true, this was his answer: 'Do you know that is the sun shining on us? Because as sure as you know that, I know that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, and that he translated that book by the power of God.'[1]

GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!! Hidden cities in mesoamerica National Geographic has this article https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/02/maya-laser-lidar-guatemala-pacunam/ that uses new laser technology to see things through the dense vegetation and are finding interesting stuff. Among the things "In what’s being hailed as a “major breakthrough” in Maya archaeology, researchers have identified the ruins of more than 60,000 houses, palaces, elevated highways, and other human-made features that have been hidden for centuries under the jungles of northern Guatemala." " At its peak in the Maya classic period (approximately A.D. 250–900), the civilization covered an area about twice the size of medieval England, but it was far more densely populated. Most people had been comfortable with population estimates of around 5 million,” said Estrada-Belli, who directs a multi-disciplinary archaeological project at Holmul, Guatemala. “With this new data it’s no longer unreasonable to think that there were **10 to 15 million people there** ncluding many living in low-lying, swampy areas that many of us had thought uninhabitable.”

I go to the antiMormon videos n youtube and respond in the comments section. I handle frustration by giving the truth about the church.

> God is a man Well, let's see what the Bible says He was a spirit, he then was born with a mortal body, he then suffered physical death, AND then resurrected with a physical body. John 14 [9] he that hath seen me hath seen the Father Luke 24 [39] Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. [40] And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. Genesis 1 [26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: [27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Christ LEARNED obedience and was MADE perfect. He progressed in this life. Heb 5 [8] Though he were a Son, yet *learned he obedience* by the things which he suffered; [9] *And being made perfect* he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him

>Mormons believe Christ was a created being. STOP telling us what we believe. Let me ask YOU -- was He "created" when he was born to an earthly mother? Of course not because He existed for eternity before His birth. And that is precisely what we believe. He has existed or eternity.

del

Here is historical evidence for the Book of Mormon == Lehi's journey in Saudi Arabia Peninsula following the Frankincense Trail 1. NHM https://youtu.be/e6MVOV92cuA 2. VALLEY OF LEMUEL https://youtu.be/EyA3j_Ajqrw 3. JEWISH TEMPLES OUTSIDE JERUSALEM https://youtu.be/fjc6I9Fe0nk 4. THE "EASTWARD TURN" https://youtu.be/UI2As25Pz7w 5. LAND OF BOUNTIFUL https://youtu.be/Yemx2inwkHk https://youtu.be/PlqlZhot4iw 6. Metals and gold plates in mesoamerica https://youtu.be/z1sjlWgyG4M

Destruction in Third Nephi See also https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/04/110414-maya-volcanoes-eruptions-ash-tikal-science-volcanic/

thief on the cross -- baptism And where does it say he was NOT baptized? Clearly he immediately recognized Christ, and had been taught and baptized by John the Baptist earlier in his life. Now, what did Christ teach about salvation and baptism? Do you worship the Christ of the Bible or the Christ of the modern day Pharasees -- a false Christ.

Copy of youtube post I have born-again Christian friends who say to me, “You Mormons are trying to earn your way to heaven.” I say, “No, we are not earning heaven. We are learning heaven. We are preparing for it (see D&C 78:7). We are practicing for it.” They ask me, “Have you been saved by grace?” I answer, “Yes. Absolutely, totally, completely, thankfully—yes!” Then I ask them a question that perhaps they have not fully considered: “Have you been changed by grace?” They are so excited about being saved that maybe they are not thinking enough about what comes next. They are so happy the debt is paid that they may not have considered why the debt existed in the first place. Latter-day Saints know not only what Jesus has saved us from but also what He has saved us for. As my friend Brett Sanders puts it, “A life impacted by grace eventually begins to look like Christ’s life.” As my friend Omar Canals puts it, “While many Christians view Christ’s suffering as only a huge favor He did for us, Latter-day Saints also recognize it as a huge investment He made in us.” As Moroni puts it, grace isn’t just about being saved. It is also about becoming like the Savior (see Moroni 7:48). The miracle of the Atonement is not just that we can live after we die but that we can live more abundantly (see John 10:10). The miracle of the Atonement is not just that we can be cleansed and consoled but that we can be transformed (see Romans 8). Scriptures make it clear that no unclean thing can dwell with God (see Alma 40:26), but, brothers and sisters, no unchanged thing will even want to.

"BOM written in King James English." Actually, except for the quotes from the KJV, extensive analysis has shown that it was written in the language of early modern English -- about 100 years earlier than the KJV, using archaic words and phrases not found in the Bible. https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865609214/The-very-surprising-language-of-the-Book-of-Mormon.html https://youtu.be/6j-8nh3ctxk?t=31m15s see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Modern_English

Of course the Nephites and Lamanites lived in North America. In the Book of Mormon it was called "the land northward", but we currently do not have the records for this area.

>Mormonism is from Satan Which of these doctrines are from Satan? 1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. 2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression. 3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. 4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. 5. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

CRITIC -- Book of Mormon archaeology, population, hidden cities RESPONSE National Geographic has this article https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/02/maya-laser-lidar-guatemala-pacunam/ that uses new laser technology to see things through the dense vegetation and are finding interesting stuff. Among the things "In what’s being hailed as a “major breakthrough” in Maya archaeology, researchers have identified the ruins of more than 60,000 houses, palaces, elevated highways, and other human-made features that have been hidden for centuries under the jungles of northern Guatemala." " At its peak in the Maya classic period (approximately A.D. 250–900), the civilization covered an area about twice the size of medieval England, but it was far more densely populated. Most people had been comfortable with population estimates of around 5 million,” said Estrada-Belli, who directs a multi-disciplinary archaeological project at Holmul, Guatemala. “With this new data it’s no longer unreasonable to think that there were 10 to 15 million people there—including many living in low-lying, swampy areas that many of us had thought uninhabitable.”

I am using it as a very accessible blog of apologetic responses.

"Jesus and Satan are brothers". Both Satan and Christ existed for eternity, were spiritually begotten with spirit bodies, and Christ was then begotten in the flesh. So they are eternal, but spiritually begotten in time. Satan, in the Great Council , rejected the Plan of Father while Christ agreed to be the Great Sacrifice, to atone for the sins of man. Each of us were in this Council, and Satan convinced a third of those spirit children to follow him in his rebellion. You, me, Christ and Satan are all spirit children of Father, brothers and sisters. This knowledge was restored when Christ called a living prophet in our day. This knowledge was possessed by His disciples when they asked the question, "Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?"

CRITIC Joseph Smith bragging about keeping the church together better than Christ RESPONSE John 14 [12] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do;

Mormons are Bible believing Christians. We accept the words of Christ who taught Matt 7 [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Matt 28 [19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, *baptizing them* in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [20] Teaching them to **observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:**and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Mark 16 [16] He that believeth and *is baptized* shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. This is what Christ taught ==>> Your mouth cannot save you. You must be baptized to be saved. You must keep the commandments. Show less REPLY

Race and Priesthood -- " the Church claims to have prophets who talk with God himself." While the exact circumstances surrounding the restriction are unknown, it appears that it was based on scripture, viz. Abraham 26-27. There was speculation and various opinions expressed on the reason for the temporary restriction, e.g. the curse of Cain. These were expressions of personal opinions. See http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine Another example of a similar restriction was the statement of Christ that He was only sent to the House of Israel, and not to the Gentiles. No explanation. The restriction was later lifted with a revelation from God to Peter -- Acts chapter 10. The restriction on holding the priesthood was also lifted by inspiration and revelation from God. See "Removing the Restriction" section https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng

"Why does God.... blah blah blah" I have an understanding myself, but it is not for me to answer for Him to your demands. 1 Nephi 15 [7] And they said: Behold, we cannot understand the words which our father hath spoken .......... [8] And I [Nephi] said unto them: Have ye inquired of the Lord? [9] And they said unto me: We have not; for the Lord maketh no such thing known unto us. [10] Behold, I said unto them:..... [11] Do ye not remember the things which the Lord hath said? -- *If ye will not harden your hearts, and ask me in faith, believing that ye shall receive, with diligence in keeping my commandments, surely these things shall be made known unto you*

"cdowis your cult, excuse me, "church " changed it's stance because of political pressure, and the threat of losing your 501c status for discrimination. Please don't try to justify it." You pretend this is a documented fact. Let's see your proof rather than some antiMormon myth. YOU need to justify (prove) your assertion rather than blabbering incoherently about rumors and gossip. PS I have spoken to the person who admitted starting this rumor about Jimmy Carter's threat.

"Millions of people armed with swords, armor, chariots, and not one teeny tiny little bit remains? Not a coin, smelter, horse, elephant, DNA, it all disappeared? " 1.Their swords were not made of metal after about about 300BCE. They had no deposits of iron but using meteoric iron and so the supply of iron became so scarce, they considered it as precious as gold and silver. See Mosiah 11:8 Their weapons actually had edges of obsidian: Although the Maya had projectile technology, such as the atlatl and spear, much of the actual fighting was done at close range with "thrusting, stabbing, and crushing". Weapons were crafted mostly from obsidian and chert, obsidian being the sharpest (but more brittle) wiki 2. Same thing with armor. And of course, the Pre-Columbian civilizations made armor. Both the Aztecs and Incas sandwiched cotton between layers of cloth and leather and stitched the whole thing together, creating quilted vests and body suits. This cotton armor was very dense and could be two fingers thick, and it repelled arrows and spears almost as well as a Spanish steel breastplate. Plus, cotton armor was much lighter, cooler, and more flexible, which probably erased the breastplate’s advantage in toughness. **That’s why so many conquistadors fought in native armor** https://pintsofhistory.com/2011/08/10/mesoamerican-cotton-armor-better-than-steel/ 3. There is no mention of chariots nor horses used in warfare in the Book of Mormon, for the obvious reason that the typology of a rain forest, mountains and rivers made them impractical for warfare. It appears that the primary use of horses was for food rather than transportation. 4. Coins are not mentioned in the text of the Book of Mormon. This was an error in one of the chapter headings which has been corrected. 5. There are fossils of wooly mammoths in Mexico but predate the Book of Mormon. https://phys.org/news/2016-06-mammoth-uncovered-mexico.html