cdowis

Book of Abraham criticism This is not conjecture but scientific proof == the Bible tells us that the Universe was made in seven days, but science tells us that it was billions of years. Proof that Christianity is not true, BY YOUR VERY OWN WORDS AND LOGIC. You are a friend and supporter of the godless atheists and they thank you. Here is what Christ says to you and your friends, Peter gives his testimony of Christ, then Matt 16 [17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: *for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven*

There are those who declare that the false "another gospel" began with the visit of an angel of light -- that our mouth alone will save us. Paul gave TWO accounts of his vision and contradicted each other. How long afterward was his account written in Acts == many years later. Go back to the master of deceit and tell him that you have failed miserably. You are talking to a Bible believing Christian.

Matthew 7:21 -" Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Our mouth will not save us

"The nature of God" This is beyond the scope of this forum ==>> Christ said, “it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.” The first and primary question is whether Joseph Smith was called as a prophet and Christ restored His church == Heb.5 [12] For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. Addition and subtraction before calculus.

"stone to translate" Do Christians really understand that Moses used a magical staff (rod). It turned into a snake, just like the staffs of the magicians and then swallowed them. And the LORD spake unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Stretch forth thine hand with thy rod over the streams, over the rivers, and over the ponds, and cause frogs to come up upon the land of Egypt. And the LORD said unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Stretch out thy rod, and smite the dust of the land, that it may become lice throughout all the land of Egypt. And they did so; for Aaron stretched out his hand with his rod, and smote the dust of the earth, and it became lice in man, and in beast; all the dust of the land became lice throughout all the land of Egypt. 4. And Moses stretched forth his rod toward heaven: and the LORD sent thunder and hail, and the fire ran along upon the ground; and the LORD rained hail upon the land of Egypt. 5. And Moses stretched forth his rod over the land of Egypt, and the LORD brought an east wind upon the land all that day, and all that night; and when it was morning, the east wind brought the locusts. 6. But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it: and the children of Israel shall go on dry ground through the midst of the sea. 7. made water come out of a rock. Do you really understand what Moses was able to do with that magical rod. And you are complaining about a stone used to translate??

"Bible inerrant" -- revised Assuming it is indeed inerrant, but that is moot until we have an inerrant INTERPRETATION of the Bible. Satan himself quoted the Bible and then Christ provided the inerrant interpretation. Where do we find that today == from the theologians and scholars who debate even basic salvation questions?

"The Bible sez...." revised May I suggest that you read what the Bible says =>> 2 Peter 1 [20] Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. [21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God [prophets} spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. Eph 4 [11] And *he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets* and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; [13] *Until we all come in the unity of the faith* and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: [14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; The Bible says it, I believe it. The historic Christian church has replaced the apostles and prophets with theologians and philosophers. They debate and argue even over basic salvation doctrine -- grace, free will, baptism, etc. Revelation has been replaced by schools of learning, PhD, and rhetorical skills. I make note that you are adding words to the Bible and giving your private, personal interpretation. You then condemn the modern prophets for acting in their callings as prophets, with authority to teach the Gospel, especially when they disagree with the interpretations of the modern scribes and Pharasees.

Anti == trash talking Joseph Smith. Perhaps, but much of that is just unfounded gossip, and trash talk. Yes, he had a seer stone and was a treasure seeker, and ran with bad company. He admitted he had done some foolish things in his youth and prayed for forgiveness. But like Saul and Peter, the Lord saw past it and called him as a prophet. He can see things that we cannot see and we should not counsel God.

ANTIMORMON -- BOM copied from many other books. Let me understand, he had no typewriter, no copy machine, no computer .... and only did "part" of books. He was a subsistence farmer, but had time to do this by hand. Now THAT is truly a miracle, when you consider that he dictated this with his head in a hat for hours at a time -- the hat had no table, no candle, no manuscript (unable to turn pages). The antiMormons have poisoned your mind with their nonsense. They are idiots.

The *Smithsonian letter* on the Bible The Smithsonian's department of Anthropology has received numerous inquiries in recent years regarding the historicity of the Bible in general, and the Biblical account of Noah's flood in particular. The following statement has been prepared to answer these questions: Most Biblical scholars and Near Eastern archeologists and historians regard the Biblical story of the flood and Noah's Ark as a story handed down by oral tradition. This story has obvious relationships with the Mesopotamian account of a flood found in the Epic of Gilgamesh. The Biblical and Mesopotamian accounts differ in important details--The respective boats are of different sizes and shapes; the Biblical boat lands on Mount Ararat, the Mesopotamian boat lands on Mount Nisir--and both stories may go back to a still earlier common source which remains unknown to us today. Many people ask if the Biblical flood actually took place, i.e. a flood which literally covered the entire earth and wiped out all living things except those which managed to board the ark? The occurrence of a flood story in both the Bible and the Epic of Gilgamesh, as well as in other folk traditions, does hint that there may have been enormous flooding of river valleys in a far distant time. However, thus far, after literally hundreds of archeological excavations at different times in the Near East, no all-encompassing flood stratum has ever been found. During the 1920's, Sir Leonard Woolley found a six foot...:thick flood layer at Ur with evidence of earlier occupations below the flood layer and later occupations above it. We now know that this flood stratum was deposited by a change in the course of the Euphrates River that meandered rather widely over the flood plain, much as the Mississippi River once did before flood control measures were taken. Other sites near Ur display no such evidence of a flood stratum. Another difficulty in verifying the Biblical story is that the identification of the particular mountain now known as Ararat goes back to no more than a few hundred years, and, in fact, we have no idea where an ancient Mount Ararat might have been located. In addition, there is no hard evidence of an early ship resting on top of any mountain anywhere in the Near East. http://www.csnradio.com/tema/links/SmithsonianLetter.pdf REPLY

>The thief on the cross wasn't baptized You are adding words to the Bible. "And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom" He immediately recognized Christ, and was certainly a disciple of John the Baptist. You are risking salvation on something the Bible does NOT say and you are rejecting the explicit words of Christ.

>Joseph Smith claimed they had been written by Abraham's OWN HAND. I have the Book of Abraham "written by the hand of Abraham" published on a PRINTING press. Are you saying that this was was written by Abraham? Of course not. It is a *************************COPY********************* The antiMormons have poisoned your brain, and they have made you say something stupid.

The difference in doctrine always boils down to interpretation of the Bible. The same arguments by the anti-Mormon can be used to condemn Christianity in general. The same science that says no Mormon angel, no gold plates, no revelation from God, also says no parting of the sea, no walking on water, no resurrection from the dead. The same standard of proof, and argument, that says Joseph Smith was a conman and criminal, can be said about Jesus as well. Anti-Mormons are masters at kicking against the pricks. (posted on youtube)

dup

" the fullness of the everlasting gospel" What is the "gospel/doctrine" of Christ? 3 Ne 11 [31] Behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will declare unto you my doctrine. 3 Ne 27 [13] Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you Read to the end of the chapters on what constitutes "the gospel" The Book of Mormon gives us the fullness of the "gospel", While there are other doctrines, such as tithing, temple worship, sacrament etc they are left to modern revelation. Also, look up "fullness" in the dictionary. It does not mean what you think it means in this context.

Wiki -- Some 19th- and 20th-century Baptist ministers in the Southern United States taught the belief that there were two separate heavens; one for blacks, and one for whites.[22] Southern Baptists have either taught or practiced various forms of racial segregation well into the mid-to-late-20th century, though members of all races were accepted at worship services.[23] In 1995, the Southern Baptist Convention officially denounced racism and apologized for its past defense of slavery.[24] The curse of Cain was used to support a ban on ordaining blacks to most Protestant clergies until the 1960s in both the United States and Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_and_mark_of_Cain Official statement from the church on racism -- The Church unequivocally condemns racism, including any and all past racism by individuals both inside and outside the Church. In 2006, then Church president Gordon B. Hinckley declared that “no man who makes disparaging remarks concerning those of another race can consider himself a true disciple of Christ. Nor can he consider himself to be in harmony with the teachings of the Church. Let us all recognize that each of us is a son or daughter of our Father in Heaven, who loves all of His children.” Recently, the Church has also made the following statement on this subject: “The origins of priesthood availability are not entirely clear. Some explanations with respect to this matter were made in the absence of direct revelation and references to these explanations are sometimes cited in publications. These previous personal statements do not represent Church doctrine.” https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/race-church

Joseph Smith Death at Carthage by Mormons There have been conflicting reports about injuries to members of the mob during the attack, and whether any died. Shortly after the events occurred, Taylor wrote that he heard that two of the attackers died when Joseph Smith shot them with his pistol.[5]:v7,p102 Most accounts seem to agree that at least three mob members were wounded by Smith's gunfire, but there is no other evidence that any of them died as a result. John Wills was shot in the arm, William Voras was shot in the shoulder, and William Gallaher was shot in the face.[35][36] Others claimed that a fourth unnamed man was also wounded.[36] Wills, Voras, Gallaher, and a Mr. Allen (possibly the fourth man) were all indicted for the murder of the Smiths. Wills, Voras, and Gallaher, perhaps conscious that their wounds could prove that they were involved in the mob, fled the county after being indicted and were never brought to trial.[37] Apart from Taylor's report of what he had heard, there is no evidence that Wills, Voras, Gallaher, or Allen died from their wounds.[38] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Joseph_Smith The defining work in the area is " Carthage Conspiracy: The Trial of the Accused Assassins of Joseph Smith " by Dallin H.Oaks. See his biography at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallin_H._Oaks Anyway, the assertion that members of the church instigated and participated in the mob is nonsense. Even the professional antiMormons have made no such claim. An inconvenient truth ==>> The Illinois state attorney prosecuted members of the mob, and NONE of them were Mormon. The acknowledged instigator and leader of the mob was Thomas C. Sharp, owner and editor of the newspaper the Warsaw Signal. For example, he wrote: War and extermination is inevitable! Citizens ARISE, ONE and ALL!!!—Can you stand by, and suffer such INFERNAL DEVILS! To ROB men of their property and RIGHTS, without avenging them. We have no time for comment, every man will make his own. LET IT BE MADE WITH POWDER AND BALL!!![2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Signal After the mob killed the prophet, he wrote an editorial justifying the mob action.

Joseph Smith was married to Fanny, with her father's permission. You are just repeating gutter gossip. I have nothing to hide, but the internet is not necessarily a trusted source of information. It is a mixture of fact, rumour and biased interpretation of events. I suggest that you get the facts, ALL of the facts, and decide for yourself, as I have done for the past 30 years. Joseph Smith was a human and made mistakes, just as Peter made mistakes by denying Christ and almost killing a servant in the Garden with a sword. If you want to condemn them, then remember that God called them as prophets, and you will be judged by the same measure as you yourself judge, especially if you are not in possession of the facts.

"Not the work itself doing the saving. " Of course works do not save us. But faith without works is dead and dead faith cannot save us.

This is a film called "The God Makers" Here is from the Wiki article on this movie ==>> The film created considerable controversy in some of the communities in which it has been shown,[9] and was described by Truman G. Madsen, LDS professor of religion and philosophy, as "religious pornography".[10][full citation needed] The negative reaction came from both Mormons and non-Mormons. The Anti-Defamation League of the B'nai B'rith publicly presented their concerns of the film which they described as "Mormon bashing" and "invidious and defamatory".[11] Rhonda M. Abrams, Regional Director stated the following: I sincerely hope that people of all faiths will similarly repudiate The God Makers as defamatory and untrue, and recognize it for what it truly represents — a challenge to the religious liberty of all.[12][13] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Makers It is hate mongering propaganda full of misinformation and distortions of Mormon doctrine.

I wish all the best and thank you for fulfilling prophecy in my life, Christ said Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets Your hatred, your bitterness, and evil speaking == Praise God, I leap with joy! Hallelujah! Standing, standing. standing on the promises of Christ my Saviour....... (one of my favorites)

The Bible tells us that there are missing books ==>> book of the Wars of the Lord (Num. 21:14); book of Jasher (Josh. 10:13; 2 Sam. 1:18); book of the acts of Solomon (1 Kgs. 11:41); book of Samuel the seer (1 Chr. 29:29); book of Gad the seer (1 Chr. 29:29); book of Nathan the prophet (1 Chr. 29:29; 2 Chr. 9:29); prophecy of Ahijah (2 Chr. 9:29); visions of Iddo the seer (2 Chr. 9:29; 12:15; 13:22); book of Shemaiah (2 Chr. 12:15); book of Jehu (2 Chr. 20:34); sayings of the seers (2 Chr. 33:19); and some prophecies of Enoch, known to Jude (Jude 1:14). REPLY

Our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ called Joseph Smith as a prophet in our day. This is his testimony of Christ with Oliver Cowdery in the Kirtland Temple == ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened. 2 We saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit, before us; and under his feet was a paved work of pure gold, in color like amber. 3 His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying: 4 I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father. 5 Behold, your sins are forgiven you; you are clean before me; therefore, lift up your heads and rejoice. 6 Let the hearts of your brethren rejoice, and let the hearts of all my people rejoice, who have, with their might, built this house to my name. 7 For behold, I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here; and I will manifest myself to my people in mercy in this house. --------------------------------------- 11-12; Moses and Elias each appears and commit their keys and dispensations; 13–16, Elijah returns and commits the keys of his dispensation as promised by Malachi. The keys of the priesthood were restored to the prophet, which Christ had bestowed upon Peter. Matt.16 [19] And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/110.2?lang=eng&clang=eng#p1

"another gospel" Here is a warning from Peter 2 Peter 3 [16] As also in all his [Paul] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2 Peter 1 [20] Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation [21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God [prophets] spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost [revelation] And finally., Paul teaches us Eph 4 [11] *And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets;* and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; [12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: [13] *Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God*, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: [14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; The historic Christian church has replaced the apostles and prophets with theologians and philosophers. They disagree among themselves even on basic salvation doctrines, such as the necessity for baptism, faith vs works, etc. They teach "another Gospel" from the one taught by the prophets an prophets and God restored His Gospel through a living prophet. II wish you all the best

The Bible Gen.1 [26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. [27] So God created man IN HIS OWN IMAGE, IN THE IMAGE OF GOD CREATED HE HIM. Gen 3 [22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil John 17:19-23, specifically, [22] And **the glory which thou gavest me I have given them** that they may be one, even as we are one: [23] I in them, and thou in me, **that they may be made perfect in one** Rev 3 [21] To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. Rom 8 [17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and **joint-heirs with Christ** if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. Matt.16 Christ said to Peter [19] And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Matt 19 He said to the apostles [28] And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, **ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel** The Bible says it, we believe it. Mormons are Bible believing Christians. God has restored His Gospel and the priesthood authority upon the earth through a living prophet