tomasgreenro
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Posts posted by tomasgreenro
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On 12/14/2023 at 1:33 AM, zil2 said:
No, I've not gone off the deep end!
TL,DR: Has anyone actually read the original interpretation (by Michael B. Rush who appears to have originated it) of the vision contained in the apocryphal book 2 Esdras, chapters 11 and 12 about US presidents and used to predict the timing of the Second Coming? If so, do you have any thoughts?
(Above chapter 11 link is an old book on the google play store that was scanned. I trust its translation more as some make no sense and confuse matters more. Other good ones seem to be the Bible Gateway one and Bible Society one.)
Long Version:
A Church member (sister) I know has been reading some books and watching some videos by this fellow, including the book in which he details his interpretation (which he said is inspired, and explains when / how that happened in the book - and in the excerpt at the above link). Here is where he claims to be the originator (at same link) - at least, that's my interpretation:
Of course, brother Rush has written books and is selling them, along with making YouTube videos. This is the first time I've heard of him. And though I've heard the phrase "Ezra's Eagle" before, I had no idea what it was and never felt inclined to investigate.
Back to this sister. She said her adult children have been giving her a hard time because she's reading the guy's books and asked if I'd be willing to read some portion of them (or perhaps all) and tell her what I think. The short section on Ezra's Eagle (from the July 2020 edition of A Remnant Shall Return) was the first thing she wanted me to read. So, I took the book.
First thing I did was google this site, and then the web. I didn't find much in text (hate watching videos when I'm trying to learn details - wastes so much time). But I found that it's from a vision in the apocryphal book of 2 Esdras 11 and 12. So, I found that and read it. It meant nothing specific to me, so then I turned to the book. (Later, I went back and read some of the book of Daniel 2, 7 and 8, because it's mentioned in 2 Esdras, but I couldn't find any obvious relation between the visions - though I don't suppose there has to be.)
Useful notes about me:
- I'm not a history buff. I think the US education system I grew up in was explicitly designed to cause children to be disinterested in history, and it succeeded with me. I've only recently started changing my mind, so I'm ignorant as a stump.
- I'm not a "signs of the times" buff. I know the scriptures, I know the basics of these signs, but I've always figured the Second Coming for me was more likely to happen at my death than at the Second Coming, and either way, my preparation ought to be the same - live the gospel, follow the prophets.
- I'm skeptical about folks claiming to have figured out interpretations of scripture (or apocryphal writings) that are new to the world, so I figure that makes me a good candidate to give this sister a reasoned opinion.
- But I also believe firmly that secret combinations are real, in operation at this moment, and present a real threat to our peaceful and prosperous existence in this country. IMO, President Benson was no nut job.
- Back when Ordain Women was all over the news (but new to me), I decided rather than reading news stories about them, I'd go to their website and see what they said about themselves. As soon as the home page loaded, the Spirit communicated to me in no uncertain terms that this was a dangerous place. It didn't tell me to leave, just gave me a sense that I needed to be on my guard. That experience has led me to trust that this can happen, to be open for such guidance, and to be skeptical and cautious when researching such things. All this to say, I'm not in danger of going off the deep end after things like this.
Initial Impression
So, back to the book. I read the first chapter - which was more about him, what he's doing, and why. It raised some yellow flags (not orange or red, just yellow):
- Some phrases could be him setting the reader up to trust the author over prophets and over what they have already learned - maybe (or maybe they're just poorly worded - I would need to read more of his writings to figure out which).
- He seems to use scripture to discredit himself without realizing it.
- In the second chapter, he cites scripture that supports him, but skips over verses of the same passage that might encourage the reader to be skeptical of him (which makes me more skeptical).
- In some places, his wording is a bit condescending, assuming the reader doesn't know certain scriptures or understand their import, and telling the reader that he (the author) will educate the reader on these later. (This also made me wonder if he was trying to set up the reader to trust in the author more than themselves, prophets, the Church and its manuals, and/or the Holy Ghost - doesn't have to be the case, maybe the guy just thinks too much of himself, but it stood out to me.)
- And, when it comes to eagles as symbols, he doesn't even address Russia or Muscovy with its short-lived three-headed eagle (and I have no idea if there are others he missed). Not sure that matters, but still.
- Mr. Rush is also in serious need of a (better) proofreader, editor, and typesetter / printer. (There's a chart / graph that is clearly missing key elements, and even if those elements were present, it would be meaningless without pages of citation to give the data points meaning. It's kinda bizarre that it was left like that - and no fix or mention or anything on the website.)
Ezra's Eagle
And then I read the second chapter about Ezra's Eagle (have yet to read the third). When I was done, there wasn't really anything that screamed "apostate" or "nut job" at me (though Mr. Rush comes off as both a Trump fan-boy and someone prone to over-the-top (to the point of absurd - seems to have been removed in his latest version found in the excerpt on the website) predictions about what might happen with Trump's presidency - which was on-going when the book was published (2015) and updated (2020)). I didn't even find any particular reason to think he was wrong except (see the "mess up" comment next)...
After reading this chapter, wherein he seemed to mess up his counting of wings, feathers, and presidents - off by 1, I decided to go back to 2 Esdras and diagram what I read for myself, without regard for or consulting brother Rush's book.
For those who don't know, the vision describes an eagle which has 3 heads, 12 wings (or large feathers), and 8 feathers (or small or "under" wings). The interpretation describes the heads, wings, and feathers as "kings" that will rule the kingdom represented by the eagle.
Biggest problem - vagueness in sequence of the various wings/feathers ruling:
- Chapter 11 makes it clear that three of the larger wings rule first.
- After that, it suggests that the other 9 rule...
- But in v22 we see that the 12 wings (large feathers) and 2 feathers (little wings) are gone, so 2 of the 8 ruled in there somewhere, but that previous suggestion might make you think it was after the 9 wings.
- Then in chapter 12, in the interpretation, in v14 and 16, it says 12 kings - the 12 wings (large feathers) rule one after another.
- But then it says in v19 that the 8 "under wings" (little feathers) are kings who will reign for a short time. "And two of them shall perish, when the middle time approacheth: four shall be kept for a while until the time of the ending thereof shall approach: but two shall be kept unto the end." Which suggests that two of these kings who rule for a short time will be interspersed in with the 12 wings, despite it saying the 12 will rule "one after another".
None of that is insurmountable. I wouldn't even consider it unusual for an ancient prophecy to not have details in order as we might expect them today. One could be justified in arguing either way - 12 large rule, then the 8 small (forget the three heads for now); or 2 of the little are intermixed with the 12 large, then the rest of the little. Neither is unreasonable.
Technical problem: in 11:13-17, but especially v17, it says of the second feather which ruled for a long time, "There shall none after thee attain unto thy time, neither unto the half thereof." Brother Rush argues that this is FDR, who served 4 terms (but only 12 years, not 16). Other presidents since him have served 2 terms, 8 years, which is more than half of 12. And if you count 4 terms, they served 2, which is half as many, and the verse says they won't even get to half. Brother Rush overcomes this by saying that Webster's 1828 dictionary defines "attain" "as exceeding or surpassing". The Webster's 1828 website doesn't agree. (But, "gain, overtake, arrive at" is the definition in Johnson's 1828 dictionary - Webster includes overtake, but also as a secondary possibility, barely mentioned.)
Now, I'm taking brother Rush's assertion that the first wing to rule this eagle is Herbert Hoover (see the excerpt for why - secret organization), and starting there. For some reason, Rush himself screws up after wing #12 / president #14 (Barack Obama):
Duration President Wing / Feather 4 Herbert Hoover Wing 1 of 12 12 Franklin D. Roosevelt Wing 2 of 12 8 Harry S. Truman Wing 3 of 12 8 Dwight D Eisenhower Wing 4 of 12 2 John F. Kennedy Feather 1 of 8 6 Lyndon B. Johnson Wing 5 of 12 5 Richard M. Nixon Feather 2 of 8 45 years to the middle 2.5 Gerald R. Ford Wing 6 of 12 4 Jimmy Carter Wing 7 of 12 8 Ronald Reagan Wing 8 of 12 4 George Bush Wing 9 of 12 8 Bill Clinton Wing 10 of 12 8 George W. Bush Wing 11 of 12 8 Barack Obama Wing 12 of 12 1 Donald J. Trump Feather 3 of 8 3 Joseph R. Biden Feather 4 of 8 46.5 years since the middle Maybe he screwed it up because he was using one of the weird translations. Anywho, this screw up is why I stopped after chapter 2 and went back to 2 Esdras 11-12 to map it out for myself. Ignoring that, let us start with Obama, the last wing. At this point, all 12 wings and 2 of 8 feathers have ruled, leaving us 6 feathers. Here's what the vision says about those:
- 11:24: two of the 6 remaining go and move under the head on the right (presumably ally themselves politically). These are the two saved to the end (see above).
- Of the remaining 4, they wanted to rule (11:25)
- 11:26: (feather 3 of 😎 "there was one set up, but within a while it appeared no more" - this is no different from previous language. But the translation Rush is using says "there was one set up, but shortly it appeared no more." He takes the "shortly" to mean the presidency would be cut short - Trump's presidency. No, "shortly" hasn't been used before, but had he gone to the interpretation, that makes it clear that all the little feathers will rule for a shorter time (12:20). So Trump's rule didn't have to be cut short for "shortly" to apply. (Alternately, Rush somehow skipped this feather.)
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11:27: (feather 4 of 😎 "A second also, and it was sooner away than the first." This suggests that Biden's presidency will end before its full 4 years are up (if Rush's interpretation is correct, once his own error is fixed). Rush actually completely misses either feather 3 or feather 4 - it's impossible to tell which - if he thinks Trump is feather 4, he misses #3; if he thinks Trump is feather 3, he misses 4.
- Having jumped over one feather without addressing it, he goes straight to feathers 5 and 6 (and this is where he poses some absurd scenarios that I'm not even going to bother addressing - we're past that anyway with Biden being feather 4). Truly baffled that he could screw this part up even before Biden was elected.
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Note that feathers 3, 4, 5, and 6 are "kept for a while until the time of the ending thereof shall approach" (ending of the eagle). This would suggest we're nearing the end.
- Feathers 7 & 8 will be "kept unto the end".
Anywho, if brother Rush is correct (after I've corrected his mistake), here's what's going to happen:
- Biden's presidency will be cut short - shorter than Trump's.
- Feathers 5 & 6 - two folk who want to rule (11:28) will be "eaten up" when the three heads awake with the larger one ruling and the two smaller ones its allies.
- The large head rules "with much oppression" and more power than any of its predecessors. "For these (the three heads) are they that shall accomplish her (the eagle's) wickedness, and that shall finish her last end." (Whether this will be the next president after Biden or something else due to government collapse, heaven knows.)
- Suddenly the big giant head (sorry, couldn't resist) will die in its bed in pain (11:33 and 12:26)
- Then the right and left heads will rule together, but the right head will kill the left with the sword (11:34-35, 12:27-28)
- Then the right will also die by the sword (12:28) after being condemned by the Lord (11:36-12:2)
- Then the last two feathers (7 & 😎 will rule together "and their kingdom was small (likely means short), and full of uproar" (12:2)
- These two will be burned up along with the entire eagle (12:3, 29-33)
But don't worry, "For the rest of my people shall he deliver with mercy, those that have been preserved throughout my borders, and he shall make them joyful until the coming of the end, even the day of judgement, whereof I have spoken unto thee from the beginning."
Well, I guess I'll go read chapter 3 now. Final thought: If brother Rush is seeking to set himself up above prophets or to lead people astray, starting the book with an interpretation of a vision from the apocrypha, where there's nothing from any prophet to contradict him, is a clever move to gain the reader's trust in his authenticity and insight. (I'd be more convinced were it not for the glaring "feather 3/4 error" and the absurdities of what might happen if Trump's presidency were cut short.)
I remember when a child of my friends graduated from school and they were a little confused. Then I told them to read it https://edubirdie.com/examples/high-school-graduation-speech/ it's a really great resource. Modern education is constantly changing and we must change along with it. Therefore, by reading current information, we keep pace with modernity.
Anywho, FWIW, and curious if anyone else has thoughts. If you made it this far, you deserve a milkshake - go get one!
I agree with you. This is a really interesting post. Thank you!
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On 3/6/2024 at 7:00 PM, Traveler said:
Just a little bit of history – as I have experienced. In my college years I, with a few return missionary friends, embarked or a Church history vacation one summer. Our encounter with our religious LDS neighbors was bitter and disappointing and left a very bad taste in my mouth. In my youth, I blamed everything on who we called the Reorganites. Over the years this bitter relationship has softened.
One of the doctrines that has sustained some bitterness has been our stand on the priesthood being exclusively for men. The Community of Christ currently has women apostles. There was some bitterness over blacks and the priesthood. Not so much concerning the blacks and the priesthood but the Community of Christ suffered a great division over women and the priesthood. They have never been solvent economically since that division.
The LDS Church has financed the Community of Christ to maintain our common interest in historical properties. It was never sustainable – especially for the Community of Christ.
A few years ago, my wife and I (with some local friends) again made a trip through Church History. My personal encounter with the Community of Christ was like meeting with beloved long separated family members. I spent a day with one of their general authorities (president of the 70’s). I was privileged to go with him through their private vault of artifacts accumulated form the beginning and dating back to the time we were not separated. With their new focus on “The Community of Christ”, he tearfully confessed to me that they did not have the resources to maintain the artifacts of history. It was not just the finances but the human resources as well. We openly discussed the possibility of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints carrying this baton to the finish line when the Messiah comes.
The bitterness between our religious institutions seems to be the one factor no longer a concern. I am grateful that our brethren in Christ have carried this burden so well and nobly for so long. I am grateful that the properties will now be restored to what they need and ought to be – a treasure for the Saints to enjoy during the millennial reign. The years in college were really full, I remember how I constantly had problems with writing stories on various topics. I even had to use https://essays.edubirdie.com/assignment-writing-service to help me get through the task. If you have a similar problem, you can use this proven resource, which is staffed by eager professionals.
The Traveler
It sounds like your journey through Church history has been quite a rollercoaster of emotions, from bitterness to reconciliation. It's heartening to hear that the bitterness between your religious institutions has softened over time, allowing for collaboration and support in preserving historical artifacts. It seems like a hopeful step towards unity and mutual respect among believers. Thank you!
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On 12/31/2023 at 10:10 PM, Carborendum said:
Yes, you're probably right. But it does explain a lot of it.
A 3x factor is probably a local phenomenon. The national average has been just under 2.0
- Overall inflation alone (which is 100% the government's fault) will explain about a 1.5 to 1.6 factor over the course of 15 years.
- Building code requirements effect the land prices. A recent subdivision I designed ended up creating a cost of about $50k per lot above and beyond the price of the land originally due to development costs as mandated by the County. There was, of course a bit more cost due to the profit to the developer. But I'm not privy to that amount.
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Houses are required to have more construction requirements every three years. Most people aren't aware of the differences. But they incrementally cause more and more cost each year.
- When new homes cost more, existing homes will see their appraisals rise as well.
- Property taxes won't explain home prices. But it impacts the monthly payment (which usually escrows the property tax). The original point was about affordability, and the escrow amount is included in that.
- Insurance rates (also escrowed into the overall monthly payment) have gone up mainly due to government influences. And this gets a lot more convoluted when you consider broad based insurance companies (i.e. companies that do more than one type of insurance).
Not everything, I understand. But the market forces are something that the average person is well aware of. And that may be the difference between the 2.0 average and the 3.0 that you cited. Some places like CA are seeing their home prices plummet, while places like Texas and Florida are seeing things skyrocket. I, myself, saw the price go up over 40% in two years. Multiply that with the 2.0 average, and yes, it has tripled. But most of that was in the past 5 years.
We're at a peak right now. The next year or two will see home prices plummet. It is also very important to pay attention to payment methods when buying a house and in general payments on the Internet. I use Amazon pay casino quite often as I gamble and this is a great resource to find proven and reliable games. They also give a promo code there, with the help of which I won a fairly significant amount of money.
It's interesting that you mentioned the continual increase in construction requirements for homes. Do you think there should be more awareness about these changes among homeowners or potential buyers? Thanks for the reply right away!
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On 6/3/2022 at 5:06 PM, Carborendum said:
I am wondering what has been the common practice for wards in various parts of the country:
This Sunday will be the first Sunday of the month. It has been three weeks since the last Gospel Doctrine class. That means three weeks worth of reading and three chapters in the CFM manual.
Does your ward only cover the most recent week? All the weeks since the last class? Or just "pick one?" Or try to find highlights of the entire set? Or ???
I know a lot about it, as a child I went to it. Depending on local circumstances and needs, Sunday classes may cover different time periods and materials. We were taught there not to cheat, but when I grew up I broke this rule. Found a writing service, used https://papersowl.com/examples/ for this. It is also important to consider the characteristics of your group and the needs of the participants. Discussion with leadership or participants will help determine the most appropriate approach for your Sunday School.If it's been three weeks since your last session, there are several options to consider. Your chamber can focus on the last week to discuss in detail and delve into content missed during this time. Or you can choose one week out of three and focus on the main points and key teachings. You can also try to cover the main aspects of the entire set and do an overview of the past three weeks.
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On 3/6/2023 at 10:04 PM, Ironhold said:
Some media outlets are saying that these are "protestors".
They aren't.
They're anarcho-communists who believe that they are modern-day "anti-fascists" despite they themselves being the ones who use fascistic methods to get their way. Often, these people are actually from upper-class backgrounds, and I'm hearing reports that among those arrested in the assault on the facility here are an employee with the Southern Poverty Law Center and a professor from Canada.
A number of people have fallen for their propaganda, but everyone else who understands what's going on know that these people are domestic terrorists.
Attacking the police is an unacceptable and dangerous act that cannot be justified. The police play an important role in ensuring public safety and justice. Violence and aggression only exacerbate problems and destroy trust in society. I hear a lot about police brutality, I use https://edubirdie.com/examples/police-brutality/ for that. But if you figure it out, then people themselves bring it to this. The best way to resolve conflicts and protests is through peaceful communication, dialogue and compromise. I urge everyone to abide by the law, respect the right of others to safety, and assert their rights through legal and non-violent means. Only through mutual understanding and cooperation can we build a better and more just society.The media always talks a lot
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On 8/2/2021 at 12:45 AM, scottyg said:
The book is filth. It was not written to actually help anyone, but to create angst and foster division. The author will hide behind the guise of "love", "compassion", "tolerance", and "understanding". If this person is a member of the church, they likely won't be for much longer. Publishing a book talking about theology that differs from that of the church is an excellent way to be shown the door...they are practically daring the church to oust them. It is nothing but foul lies meant to further hurt those who are already struggling. Some of the BS in there is dangerous, and will canker our impressionable youth and members more than any disease ever could. There is no such thing as a "non-binary spirit", period. Those who openly teach such lies would not be allowed anywhere near my children, and I would have zero problem openly rebuking them in front of other ward members for doing so in a classroom setting. Everyone should stick to the scriptures and words of modern day prophets who have already given much wise counsel regarding those who deal with same sex attraction.
Generally, Mormons believe in the Book of Mormon as God-inspired scripture. The Queer Mormon Theological Book claims that its author received revelations from God that expand upon the knowledge presented in the Book of Mormon. I still want to study this issue in more detail, but first I'm on the path of federalism, I found a lot of information https://www.studydriver.com/federalism/ here. I might do the same with this book. I also know that anyone who wishes to study this book must independently and consciously take responsibility for their beliefs and actions based on this book.Thank you for the detailed explanation -
On 11/27/2022 at 9:11 PM, mordorbund said:
There’s something about mentioning pointers that makes it seem meta — or maybe it happens even before that. I “like”d your post to let you know that I saw what you did there, but I wanted you to know that I also saw what you did there.
😁
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On 12/9/2022 at 5:22 PM, Carborendum said:
Indeed. Have you heard of permaculture method known as a "forest garden"?
I agree with this opinion. You can't ask for more than that. I'm in college now and have found http://essaypapers.reviews/ to solve everything. Because I don't have enough time for my hobby. I think I'm not the only one who does this, I also hope there are many people in solidarity with me!
Nice video
Cameras in classrooms and protecting the innocent
in Current Events
Posted
The idea is good, but the children will feel awkward knowing that they are being watched.