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Exodus 20:3-17: verse 3 = commandment #1 - no other gods verses 4-6 = commandment #2 - no idols verse 7 = commandment #3 - don't take the name of God in vain verses 8-11 = commandment #4 - keep the sabbath day holy verse 12 = commandment #5 - honor father and mother verse 13 = commandment #6 - don't murder verse 14 = commandment #7 - don't commit adultery verse 15 = commandment #8 - don't steal verse 16 = commandment #9 - don't bear false witness verse 17 = commandment #10 - don't covet

You might find reading our scripture difficult. You can always use a different translation of the Bible, but the Book of Mormon is written in similar language as the KJV, but I don't think you'll find it (or the rest) as difficult to read as the KJV. And if you're going to pick one, pick the Book of Mormon. (Also, when people quote the Bible in talks or articles, it's almost always the KJV.) From the outside, it looks like what this picture shows (meant to demonstrate giving a blessing to a sick child): @Carborendum has explained further. Note how often in scripture the Lord calls on people to repent. Why repent if works don't matter? Note all the things in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John that the Lord told people to do (all the good works). Why give all those sermons if works don't matter? If works don't matter, how do you explain Matthew 7:21 (or NIV)? Works don't save us, not in the least - Jesus Christ, by his grace, does that. But works bring us to him. They show that we want to follow him. They change us into better people - the salt and leaven of the earth. They help us to avoid certain negative, painful, even dangerous situations. They bring a type of joy and peace that cannot be had otherwise. Mostly, they show that we are true disciples of Christ. Some people will claim they do. They don't. They add more understanding and clarify - in other words, they may change your understanding of what the Bible said. @Carborendum has answered the rest, I think.

Do it exactly the way you made this thread: 1. Go to the Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints forum. 2. Click the "Start new topic" button. (You can just click the link in my text there.) 3. Fill out the form and submit.

FYI, your first n posts have to be approved before we see them, so some things may appear out of sequence - in case that wasn't clear during the sign-up process.... Some people say we believe in "a different Jesus". They say that if one doesn't accept the Nicene creed, then one isn't a Christian. They say if one doesn't believe in the Trinity (which I can't even explain - @Carborendum has explained that we believe in three separate beings with one purpose), then one isn't a Christian. In other words, it's not enough for them that we believe in God the Father, his Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost - we also have to believe in various creeds (which are not part of the Bible and were formulated by men long after the original apostles were gone). Because we don't believe those, they say we aren't Christian.

Welcome, @Maytoday! Only one website matters, the Church's official one. Whatever you find elsewhere may or may not be correct or consistent with what the Church teaches. The 13 Articles of Faith might be a good place to start with what we believe - they were written by Joseph Smith, through whom the Church of Jesus Christ was restored. As @Grunt said, the Book of Mormon is another good starting point (and, there's an app for that ). What's to argue? We believe what we believe. We believe it because it is revealed by God through prophets and apostles. Whether you understand it or see reason or logic in it won't matter - we believe what we believe. People have been trying since the 1800s to "argue" us out of our beliefs - doesn't work. So what is there to argue about? If you don't understand what we're saying, OK, we'll try to explain it in different terms. If you don't believe the things we believe, that's your right and choice, but there's still nothing to argue about. How exactly is a religious document "proven true"? How do you prove that Jesus Christ is the son of God? How do you prove that he atoned for our sins and was resurrected? How do you prove that God is real? You can find our beliefs in our scriptures. Every April and October, the leaders of our Church expound on what you find in said scriptures - helping us to apply these things in our lives - in a meeting we call "General Conference". But you're not going to find us citing a creed or whatever. If you want to take a deep dive into early Church history, you could try the Joseph Smith Papers website. Other than all that, it might be best if you just start with whatever simple question you might have, and we'll have a go at answering. I will say that in my experience, this Third Hour forum is the one place on the internet where you will find faithful members of the Church who support the leaders of the Church (as opposed to many other forums where you'll find a mixture of that, wolves in sheep's clothing, people who want to destroy the Church, and heaven knows who else). Finally, perhaps @prisonchaplain can give you some tips on engaging with latter-day saints. (Should he have time and notice this.)

OK, I take that back. "They who kept their first estate" are those of us who came to earth. If Satan, et al, didn't keep their first estate - the state or condition in the pre-mortal realm, that would make a good starting point to argue that one day they will devolve and cease to be spirits. And perhaps those who "keep not their second estate" (the body) will also devolve. It seems contradictory (with all being resurrected and that being a permanent state), but then, it wouldn't be the first time God has kept the exceptions from his children. Alternately, these estates may not be "keeping one's spirit" or "keeping one's body" - perhaps they are "keeping one's place among the redeemed" or some such... Heaven knows.

Archaic language is the explanation, as far as I know. Webster's 1828 Can't think of anything special about the terminology beyond what the older definitions suggest.

I've heard some speculate that Zoram may have been a Levite, and thus able to facilitate living the law of Moses. But of course, we have no scriptural support for that.

We do what we can righteously do, and then we stand still and see the salvation of God as he fights our battles, shows to all that he is God, provides means for our continued action, comforts us, and reveals his arm. God is able to do his own work.

I have never understood how people can make this correlation. There is zero, absolutely zero logic to it.

You're making assumptions without sufficient detail, at least as regards me. But if you don't want to go into specifics, then there's nowhere to go. So all I can say is that you are falsely accusing me.

Wow. That was some dream. And it really does sound like your brain trying to process and resolve what's going on in your life. I'm sorry for all the trials you're having with your family. I cannot imagine how painful it must be. Jesus Christ is the answer, not Moloch (symbolic or otherwise). I can't guess at the details of how Christ is the answer in this case, but stay true to him and let him guide you. E-hugs, Jamie.

Lots of things I could say. The one that seems best is: I trust the Lord Jesus Christ. He leads the Church. This is outside my stewardship, so I will trust the Lord to deal with it properly in his own due time.

Thoughts on 1 Nephi 1-5 (not presented last time, as far as I can recall - certainly, not in my journal from last time): Chapter 1 v17: Nephi notes that he abridges his father's record. I assumed he did this on the large plates, but I suppose part of what we read on the small plates is an abridgement of Lehi's record. Abridging seems to be a very common thing not only among the Nephites but also the Jaredites... (Notes written with KWZ El Dorado (link for Jamie ) are not exactly easy on the eyes.) Chapter 2 v2: The Lord may ask you to give up your familiar, comfortable, secure life and go into the unknown (aka wilderness). This is almost guaranteed to require sacrifice (v4). Do it. The Lord leads us to the best things. Trust that! v11: Laman and Lemuel are like Lot's wife, longing for what they left. When the Lord calls you into the "wilderness", long for what's ahead, not what you leave behind. Chapter 3 v8 React in ways that cause others to be glad. v18: If you ignore the Lord's warnings, don't be surprised or upset when you suffer the things he warned you to avoid. v19-20: Focus on the future and promised blessings (and what's needed to make that future a reality). Chapter 4 v1-3:Know your scriptures. They can build faith and encourage you in hard times. v10-18: It's OK to double check that you heard right. It's OK to reason through what God asks you to do, to come to understanding. And you can do those things in faith, trusting God, with the intent to obey (as opposed to with doubt or skepticism). v15: Having the scriptures does us no good unless we study them and adjust our behavior accordingly. Chapter 5 v5: This is faith: to speak and act as if a promised blessing is already a reality. v8: Sariah believed after. Lehi and Nephi believed before. Laman and Lemuel refused to believe. Try to be like Lehi and Nephi. If you can't be, be like Sariah. Don't be like Laman and Lemuel. (Meanwhile, poor Sam, lost in the middle, rarely mentioned. Whenever he believed, he did believe.) v9: This was no speedy "thanks for the help" prayer. Burnt offerings would have required quite a lot of time. Only after this did they enjoy the fruits of their labors (studying the plates). That's some serious delayed gratification. Lesson: Give sincere and proper thanks first. Use and enjoy second. I think of things like tithing, fasting, service, etc. Do we do those later, after we've done things life requires or things we want? Do we put them off until it's convenient? Or do we do those first, and fit the rest in second? Verse 18 is interesting. The brass plates were to go to all of Lehi's seed. Perhaps once said descendants fell into apostasy, this promise was "put on hold" until such time as his seed would be worthy and receive the record. I can only assume that eventually this will happen. I suppose one could argue that the Bible is a near equivalent, but probably not near enough. v20-22: Sometimes it's good to reflect on your spiritual status, either for encouragement or for correction.

Changed the thread title, thinking we can make new threads for each month. Who knows, maybe some others will join in. Thoughts from the introductory material: Title Page The book itself is not magic, nor are its contents. Yet there are many prophetic promises tied to studying it and by living by what it teaches. During our last September-December study of the Book of Mormon, I've felt the Spirit come as I study - you might say, I've felt the "spirit of the Book of Mormon", but I don't really think there is such a thing. The Holy Ghost witnesses of truth, and the Book of Mormon teaches truth. These thoughts tell me that all those prophetic promises are tied to (1) receiving the witness of the Holy Ghost, and (2) living according to the things taught in the book - study will only help if that study then alters your behavior. The BofM is written for all people, by commandment of God, as guided by the Spirit. The "life" of this book has been in God's hands from day one. Perhaps that's true of all scripture, but it's quite evident in this book. Things we're meant to learn: 1. The great things God has done for our ancestors (I might say all people of the past) 2. The covenants of the Lord (that the remnants of the house of Israel are not cast off forever) 3. That Jesus is the Christ, and that he manifests himself to all nations. God works through mortals. Don't fault His work just because it was processed or executed by a mortal. Introduction Joseph Smith's comment about the Book of Mormon and getting nearer to God emphasizes that we must use it to alter our behavior - one cannot get nearer to a thing by standing still - we must act. Testimony of the Three Witnesses These witnesses heard the voice of God and an angel showed them the plates (in enough detail to see characters on the plates). They were commanded to bear record. I think that commandment extends generally to all of us - to bear witness of those things we have learned are true. Testimony of the Eight Witnesses These are the ones to whom Joseph Smith showed the plates. I suspect that back then, a person's word, published in this manner, carried more weight than it would today (though I could be wrong). Testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith I wonder about the mechanics of Moroni's appearance (I know, more important things, but I wonder). Was he there, or was it a projection or transmission or something? If he was there, why choose to seem to be standing in the air? As evidence that he wasn't a mortal? Was he standing on anything, or are resurrected beings able to position themselves wherever they wish without need for any support other than their own will? Why was the conduit visible on departure, but not on arrival? Perhaps this reveals something about the nature of this sort of travel. Perhaps the conduit looks different at the two ends. Perhaps it has something to do with the timing. The knee-jerk reaction to heavenly beings seems to be fear. Messengers from God call us by name (is this always true?). I wonder if they always give their name. Conversation with heavenly messengers can include some sort of direct-to-the-mind content (the place where the plates were). Resurrected beings appear to have perfect memory (makes sense; Moroni repeating his message precisely). God teaches through repetition. (Pay attention to things that repeat throughout scripture.) It would seem that "generation" is sometimes synonymous with "dispensation". Blessings and duties to God require a pure heart - no ulterior or even additional motives. Time is still required when dealing with heavenly messengers. I wonder what heavenly guidance Joseph Smith, Sr. had, to be so certain of the veracity of Joseph, Jr.'s account. Sometimes, the Lord gives you 4 years to prepare for an assignment. Don't be careless with sacred things. Brief Explanation about the Book of Mormon My understanding is that our Book of Mormon was translated from Nephi's small plates (through the Words of Mormon) and Mormon's abridgement of the large plates (Mosiah through 4 Nephi), plus Mormon's own history, Moroni's additions to that (book of Mormon), Moroni's abridgement of the Jaredite plates (Ether), and Moroni's own additions (Moroni). See here for further thoughts on plates and translation: My thinking of Mormon's compilation and abridgement is that it went like this: 1. Mormon abridges the large plates from Lehi to Omni (Lehi is possibly Lehi's own plates or Nephi's abridgement of Lehi's record (see 1 Nephi 1:17)). 2. Mormon searches for the small plates (probably because of what he'd read about them and promptings of the Spirit) and keeps them. Possibly, he writes Words of Mormon on the small plates at this point (Words of Mormon make it unclear to me whether it's before or after he abridges the rest of the large plates). 3. Mormon abridges the large plates from Mosiah to 4 Nephi. 4. Mormon writes his own history (part of Mormon). 5. Possibly, Mormon adds Words of Mormon to the small plates and puts said small plates in with his abridgement. Mormon gives his plates, the Jaredite plates, and the small plates to Moroni. 6. Moroni finishes his father's book (Mormon). 7. Moroni abridges part of the book of Ether (24 plates). Ether 4- it seems these plates also held the writings of the brother of Jared, from when he came down from seeing the Lord in the mount. (It's unclear to me if that's Ether's abridgement or the brother of Jared directly.) Whatever the case, Moroni sealed up what the brother of Jared wrote, so it seems we don't have that. I seen things that say these writings are part of the sealed portion of the plates Joseph Smith had. From Ether 1, these 24 plates are the Book of Ether, but they contain history all the way back to Adam and writings of the brother of Jared, so I have to assume all that is Ether's abridgement of other Jaredite records. Where those original records might be is beyond me. I don't know that we've ever been taught anything about them. 8. Moroni writes the book of Moroni. 9. I would assume that the book of Ether is part of the sealed portion of the plates Joseph Smith had, otherwise, Moroni would have had to hide those separately after abridging. So Joseph had, small plates + Mormon's plates + Ether's plates? I'm sure we learn this stuff in history, but middle school and high school convinced me to avoid history like the plague, and I'm still recovering... The end of my thoughts on the introductory materials. (I've never much been interested in all this "which plates were which" stuff - I have a testimony of the Book of Mormon as the word of God, so that part didn't ever seem terribly important to me, but for some reason, on this reading, I decided to dig a little deeper.)

The cited instagram account links to a website that appears to be his, and here's the about me page, which confirms it's the guy from the Deseret News article. Don't have an X account, so I can't see what's there.

If they were, @NeuroTypical was doing the universe a favor by driving over them by the thousands.

Well, it may just be me and you, but the link above takes you to the Come, Follow Me manual, which is divided out into each week of the year. This week's reading is 1 Nephi 1-5. Last week was the introductory material. I'm finding that because of how thorough I was in our previous reading, I don't have many new thoughts (sometimes none), but I'm happy to share them, and if you have questions or thoughts or just want to discuss, I'm game. Let's start here and make new threads, perhaps monthly.

I pulled PDFs of the LDS edition of the Bible (one for OT, one for NT) and searched the literal phrase "fear not", without footnotes or study aids. Same search in the BofM shows 10 (more in the index, but I didn't count that as it's just duplicating). Heaven knows what ChatGPT is counting.

62 (LDS edition, not including footnotes, TG, etc.) ETA: 48 in the OT; 14 in the NT.

You have to have 5 syllables in the first line, 7 in the second, and 5 in the third - that's a haiku. (Well, there are a few other rules if you want to get technical, but you have to at least get the syllable count right.)

How they determine Easter in Japan: Vernal equinox... A full moon follows after, Easter Sunday comes.

He's called perdition, yes. The phrase after the semi-colon could be interpreted either way, but the semi-colon separates it a bit too much... You'd think if that were the interpretation, others would have said something. Further, I don't believe anyone was sent here to fail. Your interpretation seems to suggest Cain was sent here to fail.

How do you get that out of the text? That's not how I read it. The "for thou was also before the world." isn't saying, "You were Perdition before the world." It's saying "You existed before the world - in the pre-mortal realms." Because Cain, like all of us, is an eternal being, his loss is a tragedy. Bruce R. McConkie may have interpreted it the way you do, though that portion of his talk was not delivered in General Conference (watch the video, he skips that and the following two paragraphs). I couldn't find anyone else who interpreted it this way. Anyway, I'm not seeing it. Meanwhile, read this thread - holy rampant unsupported speculation, Batman!

I went searching after I posted, and it appears there are folks in both camps. The difficulty I have with the "small plates" version is that it's too interspersed with things that are strictly Nephi's POV (Lehi not present), and never has anything that's not Nephi's POV (as far as I can tell). Things to look forward to.