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I know one young man who, on his mission, received a vision in a dream in answer to his prayer to better understand Joseph Smith's first vision. He had done all he could prior to this prayer to understand - lots of study and discussion and prayer, obedience and service. In the vision/dream, he was told he now had a duty to bear witness of what he'd been given (which is how I heard of it - in sacrament meeting). I'm not saying everyone will always get this kind of experience, but those willing to work hard, those who already believe God and whatever answer God will give (before receiving the answer - see Ether 3:11), those who are faithful and will continue forward no matter what, just might receive such a gift, if they work hard enough. And in this case, probably, if they're the sort of person willing and able to keep their mouth shut - in the previous example, it's something already testified to over and over - in this case, the Lord has chosen to remain silent. So if one wants personal revelation regarding it, one had better be prepared to keep it entirely to oneself to death (and that's no easy burden to bear).

I like it. Of course, Joseph Smith changed this to "ye never knew me" - which of course means they couldn't have been authorized, either. Not much, but for reference, an article on AskGramps.org.

Crowned with commandments.

Welcome, @keeperofthegate. So sorry for what you're going through. I have no experience that can help me offer direct advice, so I'll just say that step one has to be keeping your own testimony strong and increasing your own conversion. This will set the example and help you receive guidance from the Spirit. It may also help you strengthen the rest of the family. All the best to you and your family.

And the first and great commandment is to love God with all your heart, soul, and mind. Ergo, we are commanded to keep the commandments with all our heart, soul, and mind.

I hope you're pleased with yourself. I've spent the day trying to figure out exactly what a "spiritual" witch looks like! I give up.

Your prediction would be better founded. All scripture makes it clear that same-gender sex and marriage will never be approved by God - indeed, logic itself dictates the same.

Well, for Latter-day Saints, if you hope to go to the Celestial kingdom, yes, baptism and temple ordinances are required - they're just not the thing that gets you there. They are the things that show the Lord you are willing to do his will. They're the things that change us into the sort of people who want to live with God. This quote from a devotional entitled "His Grace Is Sufficient" by Brad Wilcox might help: HTH

It's always tricky answering these questions because it makes it sound like we believe works save us, but we don't. We do believe that Jesus Christ requires us to do things - to come, follow him. Part of that is repentance. So yes, we believe that if one wants salvation, one must repent. But it's not our repentance that saves us, it's just one of the things Christ requires - in a sense, it's like accepting salvation. Christ says, "here's salvation, if you'll accept it" and repentance in like saying, "yes, I'll accept it". (That's not literally what repentance is. I'm just making an analogy.)

There's an essay and study guide on this too. The short answer is that the spirit world is where the spirits of deceased mortals go to await resurrection.

Then why did Jesus say to repent? (Check it out - go read the Gospels - the call to repentance is all over them.) (Note that for LDS, repentance is between the sinner and God - we don't have anything like Catholic confession.) But Jesus taught us to repent - I think that suggests either (a) believing in him isn't enough or (b) those who believe in him will repent. Your "rewards in Heaven" would parallel our idea of different degrees or kingdoms of heaven. (And we agree, all are sinners.) I recommend reading the Book of Mormon. I also recommend reading the LDS version of the KJV which has Joseph Smith Translation (JST) bits referenced in the footnotes (either the correction is there, or it tells you to go to an appendix). I suspect you'd find that the changes are logical. One thing that Paul mentioned, but no other Christians believe as we do is those three degrees of glory (Celestial, Terrestrial, Telestial) compared to the sun, moon, and stars. See 1 Corinthians 15, especially 40-44 - speaking of the resurrection (footnote a of verse 40 has an example of the JST to bring verses 40 and 41 into correlation).

If you were getting the life beaten out of you because someone didn't like your definition of truth, you might be more concerned. This is the type of "diversity" which some people propose - the intolerance of tolerance, only our style of diversity is allowed, yours isn't. I believe that's the one extreme Traveler meant. The other extreme is the positive use of diversity Elder Holland explains in his talk. And current reality is somewhere in between.

A lot of people feel that the Old Testament portrays God as vengeful. Check out The Family: A Proclamation to the World. The family @Grunt was referring to is the fact that we are all spirit children of our Heavenly Father. In that family, there would be no divorce, step siblings, death and remarriage - just spirit children of heavenly parents. (Whether there'd still be that annoying aunt / sibling, I'll leave to individual speculation. ) (Welcome to the rabbit hole of the importance and eternal nature of the family unit.)

I was responding to the fact that @Traveler's two posts may have seemed to be saying opposite things. Diversity that creates or worsens divisions (especially to the point of violence or oppression) is evil. Diversity organized to accomplish a united end is a good thing. Where reality lines up is a whole other question.

Read Elder Holland's talk. Or, just think of a choir (or a band). The sopranos, altos, tenors, and basses (or the different musicians and singers in the band) are each singing / playing a different note / part, and yet when each does their part correctly, together they create a harmony that is (supposed to be) beautiful. I see this all over. When I was a programmer, we had our boss, who kept the department running well; the BAs, who helped document requirements and communicate with users as well as coordinate meetings and such; the programmers who wrote the code; the testers, who made sure all the requirements were met and the code functioned as expected; the report writers, who made sure the data collected by the software was output into useful formats for the users; etc. Different skills, different jobs, done separately, and yet all working to the same end - to produce an application that would help the users.

This essay on the Plan of Salvation might be a better thing to start with - it has links at the end that go down the various rabbit holes you might explore. ETA: That link is the overview, this link is the "Study Guide" which goes into more detail.

Please note that this is a pretty advanced topic and may not be the best place to start. It might be better to learn more about the basics of what we believe before exploring this. That said, you asked, so here's my answer. I may not have presented it in the best way - I don't know - so don't hesitate to ask questions. Also note that while the below may sound like our works save us, we do not believe that! But we do believe that our works demonstrate the kind of life we are willing to live, both now and in eternity - and we believe eternity will consist of living lives and doing work - namely, the work of God (which is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man). Now the answer... In Matthew 7, the Lord tells a parable about good trees bringing forth good fruit and corrupt trees producing evil fruit, ending with "by their fruit you will recognize them". He then says this in verses 21-23 (NIV): This clearly suggests that the lord will judge people not based on calling him their Lord, but on doing what God wants (good works). Matthew 12:36 says: What's the point of giving an account if your words don't matter - if you're saved by grace alone without regard for what you do? Finally, Matthew 16:24-27 (but especially 27): I don't know how it could be more clear that our reward will be for our works ("what they have done"). If this is the case, then one has to ask, where's the line? If there's exactly one sin of which I haven't repented, am I doomed to hell? If I performed exactly one good deed, is that enough to qualify me for heaven? If one isn't enough, how many are? I'm going to switch gears now while all that simmers on a back burner. The Book of Mormon is a work of scripture written by many prophets who lived in the Americas (before they were called that) from about 600BC to about 400AD (plus one group that lived long before then). This is similar to the Bible, especially the Old Testament, where different prophets wrote of their lives, history, and prophecies, each in a book named after him: Ezra, Nehemiah, Isaiah, Jeremiah; and in the NT: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, James, etc. And the books were then compiled (into the Old Testament, and the New Testament, and the Book of Mormon). The Lord revealed things to the Book of Mormon prophets just as he did to Biblical prophets. Among the things revealed to Book of Mormon prophets, was the future of the land in which they lived, including the days of Christopher Columbus and the settling of America by Christians who would bring with them the Bible. (Before you declare that absurd, consider that God is all-knowing and has always known these things. Therefore, it is God's choice whether, when, and to whom He reveals them.) When Joseph Smith was translating the Book of Mormon, he discovered that the text thereof said that "plain and precious parts" of the Bible would be lost. After finishing the translation of the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith began a new "translation" of the Bible (to restore some of what had been lost). This wasn't a linguistic translation, but receiving revelation about the parts that had been lost. My understanding (and I've looked for the documentation and haven't found it, but I know it's somewhere - perhaps someone else will be able to find it), is that during this process, Joseph had questions similar to those I raised above. If God is just, and rewards men according to their works, then a simple "heaven and hell" division doesn't seem to fit. Joseph inquired of God and received the revelation we know as Doctrine & Covenants 76, which explains that the state of people after the final judgement will be more nuanced than the simple division between heaven and hell. Rather, there are basically 4 divisions: Celestial - enjoy the presence of God the Father. For those who accept all of God's will and covenants - those here are said to be not just saved, but exalted. Terrestrial - enjoy the presence of Jesus Christ - these are those who were good people, but not valiant in the testimony of Christ, but accept his offer of salvation Telestial - enjoy the presence of the Holy Ghost - these are wicked people who suffer for their sins until the end of Christ's millennial reign, and then ultimately accept his salvation Hell (by the common terminology; also Outer Darkness, also Perdition) - this is reserved for those who reject Jesus Christ's offer of salvation with full knowledge of what they are doing - they absolutely refused to be saved. Depending on who you talk to, or the context, some people will tell you that all but the Celestial kingdom is a form of damnation. Others will say all but Hell is a type of salvation. In the end, it just depends on how you want to look at it. It's important to note that the Church spends almost no time talking about anything other than the Celestial kingdom. The purpose of the Church is to help people prepare themselves for life in said kingdom - for exaltation. Therefore, there isn't much point in focusing on the rest. HTH.

No worries. We'll figure it out - the two might take different paths, or one might die while the other gets lots of posts. It's all good.

I think this thread might really be the same answers as your Salvation through Atonement thread: This is just me posting a short reply to let other forum posters know I'm working on an answer. It won't exactly be fast.

Exactly! See "Songs Sung and Unsung" by Elder Holland (April 2017 GC)

I'm not saying by any stretch that works will save us from hard times or trials - often it's the reverse (persecution of Christians in a real thing). But, for example, if your works include honesty, you don't have to worry about getting caught and going to jail (for theft, fraud, etc.). If your works include fidelity in marriage (and abstinence outside of marriage), you don't have to worry about getting pregnant from a one-night-stand and a failed condom; and you don't have to worry about the difficulties of divorce or getting caught cheating. If you choose not to covet, you don't have to spend your life being miserable about what you don't have. Etc. I'm sure you get the idea. Sins often bring more than spiritual consequences - they bring physical (e.g. doing drugs, violence, etc.), emotional, and mental consequences, too.

Exodus 20:3-17: verse 3 = commandment #1 - no other gods verses 4-6 = commandment #2 - no idols verse 7 = commandment #3 - don't take the name of God in vain verses 8-11 = commandment #4 - keep the sabbath day holy verse 12 = commandment #5 - honor father and mother verse 13 = commandment #6 - don't murder verse 14 = commandment #7 - don't commit adultery verse 15 = commandment #8 - don't steal verse 16 = commandment #9 - don't bear false witness verse 17 = commandment #10 - don't covet

You might find reading our scripture difficult. You can always use a different translation of the Bible, but the Book of Mormon is written in similar language as the KJV, but I don't think you'll find it (or the rest) as difficult to read as the KJV. And if you're going to pick one, pick the Book of Mormon. (Also, when people quote the Bible in talks or articles, it's almost always the KJV.) From the outside, it looks like what this picture shows (meant to demonstrate giving a blessing to a sick child): @Carborendum has explained further. Note how often in scripture the Lord calls on people to repent. Why repent if works don't matter? Note all the things in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John that the Lord told people to do (all the good works). Why give all those sermons if works don't matter? If works don't matter, how do you explain Matthew 7:21 (or NIV)? Works don't save us, not in the least - Jesus Christ, by his grace, does that. But works bring us to him. They show that we want to follow him. They change us into better people - the salt and leaven of the earth. They help us to avoid certain negative, painful, even dangerous situations. They bring a type of joy and peace that cannot be had otherwise. Mostly, they show that we are true disciples of Christ. Some people will claim they do. They don't. They add more understanding and clarify - in other words, they may change your understanding of what the Bible said. @Carborendum has answered the rest, I think.

Do it exactly the way you made this thread: 1. Go to the Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints forum. 2. Click the "Start new topic" button. (You can just click the link in my text there.) 3. Fill out the form and submit.

FYI, your first n posts have to be approved before we see them, so some things may appear out of sequence - in case that wasn't clear during the sign-up process.... Some people say we believe in "a different Jesus". They say that if one doesn't accept the Nicene creed, then one isn't a Christian. They say if one doesn't believe in the Trinity (which I can't even explain - @Carborendum has explained that we believe in three separate beings with one purpose), then one isn't a Christian. In other words, it's not enough for them that we believe in God the Father, his Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost - we also have to believe in various creeds (which are not part of the Bible and were formulated by men long after the original apostles were gone). Because we don't believe those, they say we aren't Christian.