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Please state what you mean by "this". It seems like you mean "the priesthood ban for men of black African descent was not inspired". If that's what you mean, the "Race and the Priesthood" essay says no such thing. If you mean something else, I can't figure out what.

Well, good point, but on the other hand, I think the Lord goes to extremes to make it clear how to be one of those people and wants us to have the assurance that we're "on his good side", so to speak. My understanding (yes, LDS) of these events suggests that those who will be destroyed are those of a telestial glory or less (aka perdition). These are the truly wicked - those who love their wickedness. I won't enjoy seeing or hearing about the destruction of anyone really, but a world without the most wicked (murderers, child traffickers, and such) would be welcome. Destruction may not seem like love, but I'm betting it's the most loving thing that could happen to someone - that God never destroys someone before it's the best thing for them - so they can stop heaping coals on their own heads, so to speak. In the Pearl of Great Price we have an extension of Enoch's story compared to what's in the Old Testament: While there are scriptures that talk about God "hating", this one seems pretty clear to me - God loves even the wicked, and weeps at their loss, that they won't "choose [him], their Father".

Alma 8 v1: Rest is OK. (Sometimes we beat ourselves up over taking time to relax.) v3: But don't be lazy. v11-12: This really sounds to me like the equivalent of the snotty teenager saying, "You're not the boss of me." v15: "Blessed are thou, Alma..." Whether or not we're blessed does not depend on the choices of other people. Being rejected does not mean you failed. The Lord measures in different ways than we do. And that's a good reason to "rejoice". Also, imagine how Alma felt to learn / recognize that it was the same angel who had first called him to repentance. v16: We are given adequate warning. We have only ourselves to blame when we don't heed the Lord. v17: I wonder how often God has prevented our destruction (by destroying the would-be destroyers) and we never recognized it for what it was. Of course, I have to believe God was thinking of Amulek and Zeezrom and all the others who would believe, and sent Alma back for them, too. v18: Speedily obey the Lord. v20: Amulek's "I am a Nephite" response makes me think that the city of Ammonihah must have been populated by a mixture of -ites and perhaps the Nephites were in the minority... (Though chapter 9 suggests otherwise.) v31: Sometimes, the Lord allows bad things to happen so that you and / or others can recognize God's hand in delivering you. Alma 9 We change from third to first person here, suggesting that Mormon just copied what Alma had written. v1-7: Sometimes, you have to be brave. Don't get distracted by the heckling - you don't have to answer that, just deliver the word of God. v8+: The importance of remembering (just shown in reverse). Also, all the "do ye not remember"s suggests that it was common for folks to be taught their history. v19-23: The greater the knowledge and witness you have received, the worse it is to sin against that. So don't do it, or, repent. v25: "sent his angel to visit many of his people" - I wonder what this will look like whenever we finally get the record. It doesn't seem like Lehi had any formal standing, just that he was called to go and prophesy (back in his day). I wonder if this "scattered" approach wasn't because it was necessary to reach all the people in a timely manner. In our day, and even in Joseph Smith's day, we have the ability to communicate widely much more quickly than ever before - between the printing press and electronic communication, we're like lightning compared to scribes copying messages and runners carrying them to be read... PS: Repent! v26+: We are taught that the Book of Mormon was written for our day, and if I'm being honest, I always saw that as a combination of teachings we need to learn, and examples of the bad stuff that will happen before the Second Coming. But I read this verse and think, it's also showing the hopeful anticipation of the righteous for his coming. Of late, I find myself not just looking forward to when the world (aka the wicked) will end, but also to the Lord's coming - actually hoping to still be alive for it.

As I was praying last night and thinking about this discussion, the impression came to me that I should suggest that anyone who is struggling would be blessed by forming a habit of daily study from the Book of Mormon. Choose for yourself how long to spend or how to approach it, but form a habit of being in the Book of Mormon every day with a sincere intent to come unto Jesus Christ. It may not make sense, but my own experience is that doing this consistently and persistently brings blessings. So I encourage everyone (actually, everyone, whether struggling or not) to give it a try and see whether, in a year or two, things aren't better than they were before you started.

Yeah, well, this particular community would say that at best, they're just pieces of cardboard, at worst, they invite Satan's influence.

It's entirely possible that I'm too goofy for words. Love your drawing. Would you like to know what you got right / wrong, or do you prefer to maintain the flattering image? (Klaw and the pen are the perfect additions, though.) Well, there's that Icelandic woman, or a vortex to consider. Vort's first fountain pen was a charcoal grey Lamy Safari, should you wish to include it... (No idea if there was a second one.) Personally, I think he should be using Colorverse Vortex Motion (from their Astrophysics series) as his "signature" ink. It looks black or dark grey (depending on the pen), but it's actually a dark muted purple with serious green sheen (a metallic silvery green sheen that appears after the ink is dry and may require the paper to be held at the right angle to the light if the pen doesn't put down enough ink to make it easily visible). From a very wet pen, the ink may actually look like a dark green, but that's the sheen. Unfortunately, this ink doesn't have very good lubrication (meaning it's not going to make your nib feel smoother than it is) and Colorverse inks are rather expensive, but still, it seems to fit...

Just make sure your tattoo artist knows how to spell... And how to space the words:

Well, technically, if you root the device, you can, but that's not so easy, and then there may be dependencies with some apps... It's practically a career. But you can remove the shortcuts, install your own launcher app (or even your own homescreen app - some launchers do both) and then hide all the icons for things you don't want or need. FWIW.

I think we're beating a dead horse. Obviously reason comes into play (if the prophet tells us to go out and do something that's always been a sin, of course one isn't going to do that). Obviously consistency with established teachings (in scripture and from other prophets and apostles) comes into play. But if one is doing the best they know - if no one ever taught them that X was a sin - no one, ever - and they had no reason (scripture, prophets, the Holy Ghost) to believe something a sin, then why do we think they'll be held to count for it? But frankly, these examples seem far-fetched to me. What potential sin is President Nelon asking us to commit? What righteous deed is he asking us not to do? How is he potentially putting our salvation at risk if we follow him?

Alma 6 v1-4: I don't know how other churches do it, but The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is big on records, not just of who the leaders are, but of the members - one of the reasons our wards are geographic and folks don't just attend wherever / whenever they choose. I find that the Book of Mormon has the strongest scriptural support for this practice of basically keeping track of the members. I wish all members understood why that's so important. v6: We should remember to pray for those who don't know God. This doesn't seem like a common thing happening in public prayers in the Church, but perhaps it should be. v8: Our teaching should always include Jesus Christ. Alma 7 v5: Don't make people wade through sorrow to help you find joy in Christ; if you have to wade through sorrow to help someone else find joy in Christ, it's worth it. v6+: Given Gideon's character, it's not surprising the people of the city named for him are in a better state than those in the capital city. When you're in a better state, you get to hear hopeful and encouraging sermons (with some reminders to avoid sin and continue to repent), as opposed to the "hellfire and damnation" sermons that are sometimes necessary when folk have gone astray. v8: Alma, perhaps more than any prophet in scripture, is very careful to be clear about what he does and does not know, and we can see at least one occasion where he later learned something he previously didn't know. v8: "...but this much I do know, that the Lord God hath power to do all things which are according to his word." This is a good thing to know, and a good reason to study his word and align your behavior accordingly. v11+: We have every reason to trust and turn to Christ, the one person certain to understand. v14: "mighty to save" - I always liked that phrase. It's a good thing to remember. v15: "come and fear not" - no need to fear Christ. v19: "making his path(s) straight" - I hope one day to learn whatever cultural thing makes this idiom make sense. I've got a good enough idea what it means, but the literal meaning doesn't make logical sense to me. v20: Would have to say pretty much the same thing about "one eternal round". v23: I don't remember exactly when it was that the idea of "easy to be entreated" finally sank through my thick skull, but ever since it did, I have tried hard to change my behavior accordingly. @Jamie123, in the Church, it's common for there to be sign up sheets sent around for any number of things (bringing food to someone recovering from surgery, feeding the missionaries, signing up to work a shift at one of the Church's various welfare facilities, etc.). It's also common for the people responsible for such things to call up and ask someone to help. Anyone who's been in charge of the sign ups or assignments knows that it's often hard to get enough people to sign up / accept the assignment, and there are some people you come to dread asking because of the way they respond. I hope I was never the latter, but there's no doubt I was not always "easy to be entreated". I've worked hard to change that - even if I don't want to do whatever is asked, I try to make it easy for the person doing the asking and never let them know whatever negative, whiny, selfish reaction I have to the request. v23-24: A good set of virtues to pursue.

Too much text in this thread, not enough stick drawings, so you get one I made for FPN: (Here's the thing that makes this funny: Sailor is the brand, Chushu - sounds like Chew Shoe - is the ink.)

Welsh sounds like strangling on your own tongue.

Ah, I've heard Zhoe, not sure I've heard the J. I'll have to ponder, but yes, I get it now.

LL = Y. J = H. I'm confused. Yay-EE-mee? (ETA: No, I guess YAY-mee. It's been a long time.)

I assumed that, but since I can't draw a human (other than as a stick person), I thought to take advantage of the 123... Since that's a Spanish name, I always read it the Spanish way: HI-may. In order to come close to sounding like Jamie, we need another vowel at the end...

This has not been thought of here (or elsewhere that I know of, but perhaps so on drawing-related forums). Sounds great, though I can't draw better than a stickman. But then, after considering, the drawing doesn't have to be a person - just as mine is a fountain pen, other people's could be anthropomorphized objects. The 123 in your user name is now forcing me to imagine you as a keyboard, rotary phone, calculator. Or perhaps you're prisoner #123, or the 123rd Jamie at the "People Named Jamie Convention"...

Alien concept to life-long Latter-day Saints. Kicking yourself in the back of the leg?

I don't think I'd call it that, but the general principle is well-documented: 2 Nephi 4:6 Doctrine and Covenants 68:25 Ezekiel 33:2–9 Jacob 1:19 Doctrine and Covenants 88:81–82 I won't go dig them up unless someone needs me to, but there are also plenty of scriptures which indicate that those who died without knowing the law will not be held accountable to it. So if the prophet says X is a commandment from God (but it's not) and we trust him because he is God's prophet and do X, how is that any different from those who don't have the law? We didn't have the law. As for "against my judgement" - well, isn't that the reason we have prophets, to keep us from turning "every one to his own way"?

Yeah, I wish we did that, but it seems contrary to our congregational nature - we don't even shout the "we'll sing and we'll shout" part of "The Spirit of God".... Also, our organists and pianists almost always play the hymns slower than they're meant to be played. I don't like it, but until I can do better, I'm not going to do more than express my dislike here on the interwebs. (And continue to pray for them. ) Klaw says we have to go outside now...

We do when we sing the national anthem. And sometimes in stake conference or other long meetings where your feet lose feeling... Also, choirs stand to sing, just not the congregation. It's rare for anyone to belt out anything (except some Primary children). Sorry, Jamie. Prayers and best wishes for you. (And for the record, I've never wanted even one wife.)

The only ones I've seen do that have a cracked grip section. That either needs to be repaired or trashed. Nope. It all started with this comment. ("Guest" in this thread is @Carborendum's previous incarnation.) All instances of "sheathen" will (I think) relate. As I recall, we had quite a lot of fun and that's when I drew my avatar. (And doing this search reveals that we used to have a lot more fun around here. What in the world is wrong with us?)

Alma 5 v6: Remembering these and similar things is not to give the Lord bragging rights, but to help us remember him and trust him. v7, 12: Change of heart is the point - obeying is good, but if it doesn't change your heart, it won't help (much?). v9: "and their souls did expand". Here's a long quote from Hugh Nibley (Approaching Zion, Chapter 3 "Zeal Without Knowledge") about expansion that I love (emphasis mine): Brutal, but obviously true. v10-11: The words of God should give us hope. If not, time to ponder and figure out why not. v13: You must be humble and trusting in order for God to change your heart. Thereafter, be faithful to the end, or your heart will change in a bad way. v14: Multiple ways to describe "conversion" (IMO). v15+: What converted people do. v17+: Sometimes negative motivation helps one to recognize the need to change. v19: I sometimes wonder what Alma had in mind when he talking about "... having the image of God engraven upon your countenances?" I can come up with ideas, but I wonder whether they match his. Our faces express our mood, emotions, thinking, attitude, etc. Over time, they change to display things like time in the sun and wind, or continual anxiety or sadness, or happiness and ease of conscience. Some people describe having seen a "glow" or "light" in others' faces. So what does your face look like when the image of God is engraven there? Happy, humble, gracious, kind, welcoming, forgiving, gentle... v21: Christ is the only way. v22-24: Alma knows well the answers to his own questions. (v45+) v26: Conversion, testimony, repentance are not "one and done" sorts of things. They must be continually maintained (nurtured, as Alma will teach later). v27+: How to live the gospel. Also, repent already! v33-34: Gentle, merciful, welcoming, generous. (This is the Lord you want, not the one described next.) v36+: What not to do. v38: Christ is the only way. v46: Only through the Holy Ghost can we know the things of God, and sometimes it requires a lot of repentance, fasting, and prayer before we are able to receive what he wants to teach us. v49+: Repent already! v53+: More things not to do. v57+: More things to do. v60: Hearken to the voice of the good shepherd.

Here is my take: If you do not believe that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is Christ's restored church, led by Jesus Christ himself, then disregard everything else I have to say as it's irrelevant without that belief. If you do believe that, then you only need to trust in Jesus Christ. Because if he's in charge then: 1. He called the President of the Church and the apostles. 2. If they lead us astray in some way, then trust that Christ will stop them. (D&C 43:3-4, for example.) (You don't need to trust the prophet, you need to trust Jesus Christ.) 3. If they lead us astray and for some reason Christ doesn't stop them (yet?), trust that the sins will be on the leaders' heads, just as scriptures say the sins will be on the parents' heads if they fail to teach their children (or on Laman & Lemuel's heads for generations of their descendants - there's a staggering thing). (And just as the sins will be on the heads of priesthood holders if they fail to do their duty - think temple....) (Again, you don't need to trust the prophet, you need to trust Jesus Christ.) In other words, you can't go wrong following the prophet - if this is Christ's church. That does not mean you have to follow him blindly. You can compare his teachings to the whole of scripture from Genesis 1 to Article of Faith 13. You can ponder and pray about it for a testimony of its truthfulness. You can ask questions and work through difficult things (e.g. Nephi's working through the command to kill Laban). There's nothing wrong with any of that. The wrong comes when you start trying to lead others away from the prophet or publicly declare him not a prophet or some such thing. My testimony is that Jesus Christ lives. He is the Son of God. He loves us. This is his church restored to the earth. It comes with his priesthood, complete with its keys, ordinances, and covenants. Ergo, the prophet is led by him and if the prophet goes astray, Christ will deal with it and I don't have to worry about it because I trust Christ. FWIW.

Are you forgetting that the Lamanites are all the time attacking the Nephites? It would have been foolish not to have weapons and other things ready for use at the drop of a hat.

First, I understood what you meant, so it's all good. I would say that it's less "in the eyes" and more related to "on what did individuals have a profound impact" or "in what was the individual directly involved". I would hope that Mormon thought his wife had a profound impact, but since she wasn't directly involved in the politics, wars, or prophecies, he didn't mention her. Similarly, any woman who may have been mentioned in the records he was abridging was only included in his abridgement if her portion of the story related the points of doctrine Mormon was trying to teach us (not very likely given the roles of women in those days). Now, when it comes to generic history (as opposed to the Book of Mormon), then I'm fully willing to believe there were men both involved and writing the story who never gave women or their influence a single thought (though some might have - I'm sure it would depend on the man). But I would hope that the men of God have understood from childhood the eternal importance and influence of their wives and mothers. Yeah, I think this assumes facts not in evidence. (And I'm going to shut up now.)