puf_the_majic_dragon

I catch a ton of flack every time I mention that I voted for Obama (I'd have preferred to write in Arnold but Colorado's ballot has revoked that constitutional right). My dad won't disown me for it, but he appreciates if I don't bring it up - and I enjoy talking politics! The bottom line is that while the church is about your covenants and not the other people you sit in the chapel with, other people can make sitting there pretty unbearable. You have to decide whether you're going to tough it out for the Gospel and for your covenants, or keep moving until you find a congregation that is truly Christ-like and won't judge you (or a congregation of moderate progressives who agree with you ).

3 Nephi 11 "29 For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another." 2 Timothy 2 "24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient," Philippians 3 "2 Don't feed the trolls."

If it were not so, every prophetic vision in every dispensation of time would have been one heckuva hoax. Exodus 3 "4 And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I." God's spirit matter was substantial enough to call out to Moses. Joseph Smith—History 1 "15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon by some power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction." Satan's spirit matter was obviously substantial enough to prevent a boy prophet from speaking. So are you trying to get us to think critically? Or are you trying to get us to question our beliefs in order to justify your own insecurities? Either the scriptures are the revealed and true word of God (and "if there are faults they are the mistakes of men") or they are not. There is no middle ground. Since there is no obvious outlying scientific proof in either case, it's up to each of us to choose what we believe. What do you believe, Snow?

It works out pretty well on forums - but it's hard to get a girlfriend when you know more about Levitical Law than you do about sports. Be specific. Give me an example. In fact, give me any scripture you take issue with - or several.

Doctrine and Covenants 131 "There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;" Thank you very much, I'm here til Thursday. Try the veal.

He uses a high frequencey electromagnetic wave generator to remotely affect the electrical synapses between neurons in your cerebral cortex. By tuning the EM wave's frequency and amplitude he can pinpoint the appropriate centers of the brain and stimulate particular thoughts and ideas. I have read that wearing an aluminium foil helmet over your head can protect you from his intrusions. However, this has been tested by students at MIT and found to have been disinformation - the aluminium foil helmet actually amplifies the signal rather than attenuating it, making Satan's influence on your mind even stronger. :edit: Your best bet for preventing Satan from beaming thoughts into your head is to give up cell phones (often used as a source of the HF EM waves) and to live out in the mountains where standard radio signals can't reach you. Building an earth ship for a home is also a good way to prevent satellite signals from influencing your mind. As of yet there have been no improved helmet designs to prevent the EM waves from reaching your brain.

I wanted to vote for Arnold, but the state of Colorado has removed the blank line for writing in candidates in a presidential election (totally unconstitutional I might add). So I voted for Obama (you may now commence the vegetable throwing).

Maybe it's taking so long because God is giving you time to decide that you're going to stop avoiding it Stop worrying. If they call you, they call you and you accept and you do the best darn job you can. Who God calls, he qualifies. And if they don't call you, then "happy day, all is well" and back to routine. Ensha Allah. If God wills it. Que sera, sera. Whatever will be, will be. P.S. I would ask why you don't want to be bishop and give you a few pages of free psycho-analysis, but I spent all morning on the phone with my sister so....

All very good suggestions :) You can also ask on here, but I can't guarantee every answer you get will be worth anything. I for one am almost 26 and preparing for a mission. We're a minority, but there are older more experienced missionaries out there. Why don't you ask this question of the missionaries you've spoken to? Maybe they know someone who can help.

Doctrine and Covenants 85 Oh yeah, take that! When enforcing the Law of Consecration in this dispensation, the Lord prescribes a punishment far worse than death to those who keep not the law: They and their ENTIRE FAMILIES (ancestors and descendants) are blotted out from the Book of Remembrance. If all God did was kill them, Annannias and Sapphira got off easy. Compare to the Ark of the Covenant. It was law punishable by death that only the tribe of Levi ordained in the priesthood could touch the ark. 2 Samuel 6 Uzzah touched the ark (well-intentioned as he was) and broke the law and was struck dead instantly for it. It's the same for the Law of Consecration: the higher the law you are asked to live, the greater and more immediate the consequences for breaking (or living!) that law.

I think there is definitely a power in being verbal. Note the first verse of St John "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God," or the JST "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God." Also note Genesis 1: "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light." In priesthood blessings, the blessing is given vocally (would the blessing still be effective if the giver only "thought" it?). Topical Guide: Word Ezekiel 12 "For I am the Lord: I will speak, and the word that I shall speak shall come to pass; it shall be no more prolonged: for in your days, O rebellious house, will I say the word, and will perform it, saith the Lord God." Moses 4 "For as I, the Lord God, liveth, even so my words cannot return void, for as they go forth out of my mouth they must be fulfilled." Doctrine and Covenants 132 "I am the Lord thy God; and I give unto you this commandment—that no man shall come unto the Father but by me or by my word, which is my law, saith the Lord."

Just found this thread, it looked interesting. You know for some of us - we read the scriptures and truth and light and understanding and faith just leap off the pages. I guess it all depends on what you're looking for. "Seek and ye shall find." /me shrugs

True enough, I suppose. But that person is/was a prophet of God, a person with in depth and first hand knowledge of the situation which would qualify them as an "expert witness" -whose testimony is considered evidence in a court of law. Soooo yes, scripture is evidence. And the great thing about the Gospel is that you can seek and study and pray and ask and gain your own personal testimony - making YOU the "expert witness". Now if you're not willing to accept scripture as a satisfactory source of information when having a spiritual and doctrinal discussion, then you probably have a pretty weak (or nonexistent) testmony (a situation with which I am intimately familiar) and you should start your own thread about that rather than hijacking this one.

Um I'm not sure I buy into that. Find me some references that support that theory.

1: Doctrine and Covenants 77 "...that which is spiritual being in the likeness of that which is temporal; and that which is temporal in the likeness of that which is spiritual; the spirit of man in the likeness of his person, as also the spirit of the beast, and every other creature which God has created." 2: Combine 1 with the scriptures below regarding his "Network". Seriously, how could Satan (or any of his followers) tempt us save he could see and hear and thereby know what was going on in our lives and what our weaknesses are? Joseph Smith—History 1 "...It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom..." 3: Can't happen. Doctrine and Covenants 6 "Yea, I tell thee, that thou mayest know that there is none else save God that knowest thy thoughts and the intents of thy heart." 2 Corinthians 12 "And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure." Doctrine and Covenants 10 "Pray always, that you may come off conqueror; yea, that you may conquer Satan, and that you may escape the hands of the servants of Satan that do uphold his work." Satan CAN put thoughts in our minds: Doctrine and Covenants 10 "And, behold, Satan hath put it into their hearts to alter the words which you have caused to be written, or which you have translated, which have gone out of your hands."

First of all - your original question of "why we believe Jesus Christ is Jehovah" has a simple answer: Because he IS Jehovah. It's like asking why we belive the sky is blue - because it IS blue. But if you feel like you're blind and can't see the sky for yourself, you have the testimony of all the prophets telling you that it's blue, and they could see. Secondly, if you look at all of the references in the Topical Guide under "God the Father - Jehovah" they ALL are still talking about Christ. Read Mosiah 15 with the understanding that it is talking about Christ, not the entire Godhead. Go back and read that article posted by Just_A_Guy yesterday, it explains it all very well and very detailed and very clearly. And after that if you still don't think you understand, pray about it. I hate to sound harsh but you have more than enough material here to study and have a clear understanding and a clear answer to your question, so if you've read it and studied and you're still having trouble understanding it, then you need to ask for spiritual help: pray about it.

No, 12 months isn't long enough. But it might be long enough for his wife to get a divorce and take his daughter (and other children?) to somewhere very far away from him.

I like the Tokyo Rose analogy :) very clever. Now throw in that each of those Tokyo Rose personalities had actually personally known every soldier before they left for the war. Satan can not read our minds. BUT he has not had the veil pulled over his mind and he knew us all in the premortal existence. He knows each of us better than we know ourselves and he knows our weaknesses. But in the end he gets far too much credit. We often blame him for sins that are really of our own choosing. "The natural man is an enemy to God" and the natural man is an innate part of all of us - we tempt ourselves. In most cases Satan and his followers only give us a nudge when we're already leaning in the wrong direction. That article Generally_Me posted pretty well sums up the answer whether Satan can read our thoughts. But I feel it important to warn that he DOES have great power, especially when we submit to his will. Satan's power was manifest with Job - he had the power to destroy his family and property and to cause sickness and death. Which means he also has the power to save lives and prevent sickness and death - or to find you a job or to take your job away. However his power to act in relation to us is directly proportional to our righteousness - Satan could not afflict Job without God's permission because of Job's righteousness. That does not mean that Job (or the righteous us) are not subject to the natural perils of this life, but righteousness can protect us from Satan's influence on us and our surroundings.

Topical Guide: Jesus Christ - Jehovah Guide to the Scriptures: Jehovah 1 Corinthians 10 Moroni 10

Now if only I had a way of taking it with me on my mission!

Actually Moses did speak to God the Father (of our spirits). Or at least Elohim was present at the burning bush incident. See Exodus 3:6 "6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God." Hebrew transliterated: 3:6 VY'aMUr 'aNKY 'aLHY 'aBYK 'aLHY 'aBUrHM 'aLHY YTShChQ V'aLHY Y'yQB VYSThUr MShH PhNYV KY YUr'a MHBYT 'aL-H'aLHYM. The "aLHYM" at the end is Elohim. The word El for God is also present transliterated above as "'aLHY". Thus the verse can be translated in English to read: "6 Moreover he said, I am the God (El) of thy father, the God (El) of Abraham, the God (El) of Isaac, and the God (El) of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon Elohim." However in previous and subsequent verses, most of the interaction between Moses and God is between Moses and YHWH (Jehovah/Christ). Actually, Elohim can be seen to make appearances all throughout the chapter - Verses 4, 11, 13, 14, and 15. Also the whole conversation takes place on the Mountain of Elohim (verse 1). God the Father was also present in a vision given to Stephen: Acts 7 "56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God." And in the first vision given to Joseph Smith: Joseph Smith—History 1 "17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him! " LDS.org: "Because Adam and Eve transgressed this command and partook of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they were cast out from the presence of the Lord." Also, in D&C: Doctrine and Covenants 29 "41 Wherefore, I, the Lord God, caused that he should be cast out from the Garden of Eden, from my presence..." It's plain here that A: the spiritual death refers to our removal from the presence of God and does NOT mean a complete absence of God from our lives. And B: that the God who's presence we are separated from is the God speaking in the D&C - that is Jesus Christ. Then learn Hebrew :) That's what Joseph Smith did. Also, the website I linked to above has the paleo-Hebrew, modern Hebrew, latin, and 8 English translations. So you can read it in English then cross-reference the Hebrew and Latin Vulgate. A great resource for the pseudo-scholar :)

Dude that article is way cool..... That's one to print out and tuck in your scriptures.

W00t for Stargate!!!! And no, I was being serious. Way too sarcastic and rude, but serious. Anywho, I think we all understand each other now, so it's all good :)

Try reading the Old Testament in Hebrew. No seriously, it makes things a LOT more clear. Parallel Hebrew Old Testament Elohim is the plural form of the word Eloh, which is POSSIBLY a derivative of the word El which means "God". While latter-day prophets have told us this is the name of God the Father, it may be more applicable as a title than an actual name. El is used regularly throughout the scriptures in names - IsraEL, LamuEL, SamuEL, IshmaEL, NathaniEL, etc. Jehovah is an Anglicized version of the German word Iehovah, translated from the Hebrew tetragrammaton YHWH (YHVH), most likely pronounced as Yahweh and most likely a derivative of the Hebrew phrase "I Am", a first person point of view statement of existence. The original pronunciation and meaning of YHWH is lost due to a Hebrew proscription against speaking (and eventually against writing) the name of God. First off, God the Father has ALWAYS used YHWH as his intermediary with this earth, even before the fall. Even in the creation, YHWH did the actual work on behalf of the Father. Secondly, The fall of Adam was not a complete separation from God (YHWH), but a removal from the presence of God. The best analogy here might be parents kicking their adult child out of the house. You don't live with them anymore, but you still get phone calls (prayer) whenever you want and the occassional holiday get together. Also, there are several instances throughout scripture where God the Father comes to visit - Steven in the NT and Joseph Smith among others. Therefore the "seperation" wasn't a complete and total seperation from any and all contact with the Father (or with YHWH), but was a removal from His presence. Where before the fall Adam had the full-time companionship of YHWH, after the fall he (and we) could only have the full-time companionship of the Holy Ghost. The translators of the Old Testament were men and did not have spiritual revelation to help them in their translation and many of the punctuations are largely arbitrary. In many instances where the name of God (YHWH) was written in the original texts, it was replaced with the word "Adonai" by Hebrew scribes (due to the proscription mentioned above). "Adonai" was then translated into the KJV as "Lord" (usually with caps, but not always). Therefore most instances of the word "Lord" in the OT refer to YHWH aka Jehovah. Occassionally in the OT the word "Lord" refers to earthly kings and occassionally (often written as "The Lord God") refers to God the Father where it was translated from the Hebrew "Elohim", but the KJV translators weren't always consistent. So read the OT in the original Hebrew. That way you can see where Elohim and YHVH are used and know which verses refer to which member of the Godhead. I would also suggest doing a search on LDS.org for articles that mention the names Elohim and Jehovah, I know there are tons of expositions by modern prophets regarding just this question. And lastly, you should read Jesus the Christ by Apostle James E. Talmage - the guy was probably one of the most scholarly of modern prophets. Oh, and finally. As far as where our beliefs concerning Jehovah and Jesus Christ come from, visit the LDS.org page on Jesus Christ and read the additional materials and references they list there. Also read the D&C, as that is just chock full of Christ himself answering your question.

Several prophets and general authorities have said that a person should die before sacrificing their virtue (you can see this illustrated in Abraham 1:11 regarding the daughters of Onitah). While there is forgiveness with true repentance, the Lord says to those who don't stray "...thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine." And Anatess: kudos :)