puf_the_majic_dragon

Revelation 11 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. 11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.Zechariah 4 11 ¶ Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? 12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? 13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.2 Nephi 8 17 Awake, awake, stand up, O Jerusalem, which hast drunk at the hand of the Lord the cup of his fury—thou hast drunken the dregs of the cup of trembling wrung out— 18 And none to guide her among all the sons she hath brought forth; neither that taketh her by the hand, of all the sons she hath brought up. 19 These two sons are come unto thee, who shall be sorry for thee—thy desolation and destruction, and the famine and the sword—and by whom shall I comfort thee? 20 Thy sons have fainted, save these two; they lie at the head of all the streets; as a wild bull in a net, they are full of the fury of the Lord, the rebuke of thy God.Doctrine and Covenants 77 15 Q. What is to be understood by the two witnesses, in the eleventh chapter of Revelation? A. They are two prophets that are to be raised up to the Jewish nation in the last days, at the time of the restoration, and to prophesy to the Jews after they are gathered and have built the city of Jerusalem in the land of their fathers.I see nothing in these verses that says that these witnesses will be LDS. The phrase "Raised up to the Jewish nation" implies to me that they will be born and raised there and fore-ordained to this calling only - so not an apostle pulling "double duty". There's also a lot of symbolism in terms of the olive tree references which suggest a direct relationship to the house of israel. The candliestick references imply a relationship to "the true source of spiritual light" (13 - Exodus 25 - 30 ; 35 - 40 - The House of the Lord in the Wilderness). The oil would symbolize the Holy Ghost and thus suggests the outpouring of the Spirit from these two prophets; likewise the olive branches would symbolize the source of that outpouring. Pretty cool stuff, but nothing conclusive regarding whether they'll be LDS or not. Finally, the Institute manual for the New Testament says this regarding the witnesses: 55 - "The Kingdoms of This World are Become the Kingdoms of Our Lord""The Kingdoms of This World are Becom the Kingdoms of Our Lord" “Suffice it to say, the Jews gather home, and rebuild Jerusalem. The nations gather against them in battle. Their armies encompass the city, and have more or less power over it for three years and a half. A couple of [B]Jewish[/B] prophets, by their mighty miracles, keep them from utterly over-coming the Jews; until at length they are slain, and the city is left in a great measure to the mercy of their enemies for three days and a half. The two prophets then rise from the dead and ascend up into heaven. The Messiah comes, convulses the earth, overthrows the army of the Gentiles, delivers the Jews, cleanses Jerusalem, cuts off all wickedness from the earth, raises the Saints from the dead, brings them with him, and commences his reign of a thousand years; during which time his Spirit will be poured out upon flesh; men and beasts, birds and serpents, will be perfectly harmless, and peace and the knowledge and glory of God shall cover the earth as the waters cover the sea; and the kingdom and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the saints of the Most High.” (Pratt, A Voice of Warning and Instruction to All People, pp. 49–50.) :)

So you're saying that you believe that all killing murder, and therefore all killing is wrong? Nobody has a golden ticket. What we're discussing here is Doctrine and Covenants 137 and verses 7, 8 and 9, I believe, still apply to children (verse 10). That is that "7 Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me, saying: All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; 8 Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom; 9 For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts." Or in simple terms - even babies that die still get judged on whether they would have accepted the Gospel if they had lived. No free rides. Also, parents who lose children will receive them in the resurrection "just as they laid them down": LDS.org - Support Materials Chapter - Words of Hope and Consolation at the Time of Death giving those children an opportunity to exercise their agency during the millenium. So I was at family home evening with my singles ward last night and the lesson was over and we started talking about activities and this group wanted to play a card game and that group wanted to play volleyball and the other group wanted to eat the treats and I shouted out that anybody who wanted to read the scriptures could join me. I'm so disapointed, not surprised at all, but so disapointed that nobody took me up on that

I had an idea I discussed with my roommate a while back about linking tax rates to property values - higher property values pay a higher tax. I'm still not sure I understand completely what he was talking about, but my roommate said it would lead to a similar problem - the lower income rural areas supporting the infrastructure. In any case - a state/municipal level flat tax based on income (ie everybody pays 10% regardless of how rich or poor) would be fine by me. If the federal government taxes the states - a flat tax based on the state's income (ie 10% of what the state brings in from taxes) could work satisfactorily well. If it were not going to be flat, I'd make the tax rate follow a parabolic curve based off a simple quadratic equation.

Hukt on foniks wurkt for yu! Sure he does. Didn't you see the scripture in First Nephi I quoted? Let me quote it again: "Behold the Lord slayeth the wicked to bring forth his righteous purposes. It is better that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief." You're still thinking of death as a bad thing. I thought my allegory of the friend's house was pretty good, so I'm at a loss for a better way to explain things. In any case, it may be unjust for you or I or any man to kill a child of his own accord - but that is because, as I said, we do not have the right to take away another person's agency. Wicked parents take away their children's agency by denying them the chance to choose right and good - these children, if they're allowed to grow up, will then undoubtedly follow in their parents footsteps and condemn themselves accordingly. If God decides it's better for them to die before the age of accountability and to be given a chance in the millenium, then who am I to question his judgement? He is, after all, the ultimate judge. True enough. There must needs be wickedness to tempt us, else there would be righteousness in being good. The converse is also true, there must needs be righteousness or else there would be no sin in doing evil. Children born and raised in a "ripe for destruction" wicked society never have the chance to choose right, and thus they have lost their agency. It CAN be loving to kill. At least for God. So we don't have to feel bad about the Inca, or Mayans, or the Cherokee or slavery. Duh. Guilt is one of the primary causes of PTSD. Eliminate the need for guilt (by making your killing God-sanctioned) and your soldiers stop going nuts on the battlefield. It worked for the crusades :)

Question. Why are we paying federal tax just to have it turned around and given back to the states? It's like paying your dad rent, then asking him to borrow some money to make your car payment. Except you don't live with your dad, he just charges you rent for the heck of it. Have I pretty well summed it up? Cancel federal income tax. Increase state taxes. States pay a federal tax per capita. States receive no federal aid (except in emergencies ie Katrina). Sounds good to me. Then again, I wouldn't be opposed to reincorporating the Articles of Confederation into the Constitution. Oh, and as far as red vs blue - studies show that blue tends to interpreted by people as a more passive, soothing color while red tends to be aggressive and dangerous. Hence why the most popular color for the walls/stalls in public bathrooms is blue while the most popular color for sports cars is red.

Sorry for the multiple posts - still catching up on the last several pages. I know! God's a woman! OR We are given mortal laws for a mortal existence. We are commanded not to kill because killing takes away another person's agency 110%. However, since God gave us agency, He can also take it away (likewise with mortal life). And as has already been discussed, we are often the instruments God uses to bring to pass his will. Love and death are not mutually exclusive states of being. Killing can be an act of compassion (as has been discussed regarding the flood). Turning the other cheek does not negate justice (eternal justice or mortal justice) nor due process of law. Killing can be done as a just and right sentence for a crime without being done out of vengeance - and can even be done with love and forgiveness. Well his grammar and spelling is quantitatively better than yours :) But not by much (sorry max). And that's not an ad hominem attack, just a jocular tease :)

Except that your point lacks any eternal perspective. Life is a vacation, death is going home. If your kid went over to a friend's house and got into trouble, tell me you wouldn't call him home? It show's God's love for us that he gives us a chance to make things right before making us come home and be disciplined for our trouble-making. But he's said many times if we cause too much trouble: "The Lord slayeth the wicked.."

Wow, like 6 pages of nonsense since my last post. Must have been an exciting weekend for some folks. Um.. Christ did, actually. You're forgetting we were also talking about biblical events, not just Book of Mormon events. Now, if you'd like to dismiss the only existing accounts of these events as "hearsay", go for it. However, since you're the one disputing the accepted "dogma", the burden of proof is on you. I hereby move for dismissal. Cute :) Kind of reminds me of third grade. Why not? Since teens and children and infants are subject to the instruction of their parents - if parents are giving evil instruction, then their children are necessarily going to only know evil. I'm sorry if psychology 101 wasn't on your itinerary when you vacationed in college.THINK-BEFORE-YOU-POST ® Reading THAT gave me a headache.... You must, necessarily, define these words. 1 Murder: the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. Therefore if the specific conditions are not covered by God's law as murder, then the act of killing is not murder (under God's law). Your task is to determine how murder is defined by God's law, and then you can say whether scriptural killings (ie Laban) were murderous or not. 2 Stealing: to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force Since God, by definition, is the creator/owner of all things (in this Earth), he retains the right to grant permission to take any thing by any means. 3 Rape: the unlawful compelling of a woman through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse. God, by definition, is the giver of law, and thus the giver of all EXCEPTIONS to law. In addition, he granted His permission to take what he created (cr 2). To summarize what you didn't articulate explicitly - there are times when killing is not morally wrong (or unlawful) and therefore does not fall under the definition of murder. Snow's use of the word "murder" is a clear cut example of the expert use of equivocation. Snow is also an expert of the fallacy of many questions (aka the "loaded question"), and has shown excellent skill in using presentism. However, you yourself are guilty of using a false dichotomy (as Snow pointed out in another post). But you only did so because Snow's "loaded question" pushed you into it I know there's a fallacy for what you're describing here, but for the life of me I can't remember what it is. I think it may be an argument from fallacy, but I can't recall for sure. In any case, I believe your assertion that "once God orders it, it isn't murder" requires a supporting argument. Thankfully, I gave you one up above :)

Anything's possible, that's exactly my point. The Lord has raised up prophets among other nations and other peoples and even other "churches", so why do we assume the two prophets in Jerusalem are going to be LDS?

I'm sorry if I missed this earlier but who/where does it say that they will be LDS Apostles? Who's even to say that they'll be LDS at all? If I recall my scripture references correctly, the most likely scenario is that they'll be native Israelis and then most likely Jewish.

SINNER!!! YOU CAN'T DRINK CAFFEINE!!!!! Sorry, but the urge to be ironic was too strong to resist I usually drink water but occassionally indulge in the rare mountain dew :)

Where you run netstat from makes no difference. If it shows no data then she's probably not connected to a network (ie the internet) at all. Or ZoneAlarm is blocking it. Make sure that ZA is turned off, this will ensure that netstat will work and that the trojan will be connecting to his computer. Netstat (ie Network Status) shows all of the current connections that your computer has to other computers. The /b and /v parameters tell it to show more information about which programs are making those connections. Command line programs, by their nature, can be a bit confusing. You're probably best starting out with the Hijack This log Mahone suggested, since running that program and saving the log should be pretty straightforward. And the more I think about it, the more I think prosecuting him for computer crimes isn't a bad idea. You can ask the District Attorney to give him a deferred adjudication (plea bargain with no conviction record) and the weekend of jail time should scare him enough to get his act together. I got into a fight with my little sister when I was about 15 or 16 and my parents had me locked up for assault for a weekend - and I haven't gotten angry since (not counting road rage ). So yeah, maybe it'll be good for him.

Right, my desktop is behind the NAT, but the server is directly connected and the messengers run on the server. I originally set it up to run an ftp server cause I got tired of fighting with forwarded ports and passive connections. 2003 doesn't even support UPNP (too much of a security risk). Lol, not to mention teenagers working in IT have a bad reputation (I don't think it's warranted, people just don't want to believe a teenager knows more than they do), especially when they own the company . Hmmmm. I apologise about the derailed thread. I promise we'll get right back on track as soon as we get an update! That and 16 year olds usually don't have much business sense - ie fees, billing, invoices etc. And a lot of teenagers think they know more than they really do. I laugh when some kid says they know HTML because they copied and pasted some premade code into their myspace layout. But then there are teenagers that really do know what they're doing - and they suffer from the prejudices imposed by those who don't. Anywho - while we wait for an update, I'm going to go do more homework on methane powered cars.

Well the advantage of Windows is that it lets me run my instant messengers going through a bunch of connection hassle. MSN Messenger is notoriously difficult to get to cooperate through NAT connections (unless your router supports UPNP). I toyed with Linux in high school - felt so special when I compiled my own kernel. But the one thing where Windows has always had an advantage is in the user interface. I tried installing Debian once a few years ago but after spending 6 hours fighting with the installation (kept getting CRC errors >.< ) I gave up and reinstalled 2003 and within 45 minutes of starting I was up and running and configured. Actually I started when I was 16 but I don't really count that since I really had no clue what I was doing. I graduated high school with a CCNA so by 18 I did have a clue. But like I said - I never made money with it. Too much work advertising and too little return. And always the temptation to work for free when the client bats her eyes all cute like.

FYI I haven't read all the other replies. I think it's because people who go to those sites go expecting to discuss controversial issues (just look at the site names!). People who come here come expecting to chat about the weather and never have their opinions called into question - so when somebody does ask a question people get defensive. I'm also going to say that some people here expect that anybody who asks a question is either an investigator that they can convert or a detractor looking to cause trouble, and so they taylor their responses to fit within one of those two paradigms. Besides. We're Mormon, which means we ARE self-righteous :)

Hence why I never made any money running my own business for 7 years Never got any dates out of it either Regarding hardware firewalls - software firewalls can also do everything you specified. After all, a hardware firewall is also a software firewall really - just in the form of firmware. So the primary advantage is that it is seperated from her workstation. I solved this issue at home by taking an old workstation and installing a corporate firewall operating system on it (check out Welcome to Express 3.0! - SmoothWall.org). It's free, has the same advantage of a hardware firewall and runs on old hardware it effectively acts as your router like a hardware firewall would. My previous post referred to basic NAT home routers (which also usually have very basic firewall functionality built in) as you quite rightly stated real hardware firewalls are generally too expensive for home users. That's one reason I have a w2k3 router. It also eliminates the problems NAT can cause for instant messengers and file sharing clients. And it frees up resources on my desktop for games :)

A good hardware firewall can provide additinal security from known hacker attacks and block IP ranges pretty effectivel - it basically adds a layer of obfuscation specifically designed to prevent intrustion (as opposed to a NAT router that does nothing but what you said). However, a decent hardware firewall is a bit overkill and a bit expensive for the average home user. Right. But I'd rather spend those few minutes hitting on some pretty girl

So you don't consider the testimony of eye witnesses - even a confession from the perpetrator himself! - as evidence? I'd LOVE to see you on CourtTV, you'd make for some good laughs :) You didn't see my little quip about siccing Laman and Lamuel on him? Why not? All the men can be evil but women and children are intrinsically innocent? That sounds sexist to me. Besides - if one man can be evil and deserve death, why can't two men? Or two men and a woman? Or 20 men and 20 women and 10 children? How does increasing the number of people make them any less sinful? Can you, 2500-3000 years after the fact, with only the testimony of "an anonymous author from over 2500 years ago" honestly say that these actions were UNjust? Tell me how you can justify such an assumption when the only accounts of the event explicitly state that it was just? What reason do you have to "spin" it as evil?

Some viruses can also rewrite BIOS information - but if he had done that your computer would probably not boot at all. There are boot sector viruses that don't get caught with a standard format as well. But Mahone's suggestions are far more plausible for your typical teenager. DITTO!!!!!I'm not a big fan of ZoneAlarm. I used to use it a decade ago but have since moved on to Symantec Endpoint Protection (previously Symantec Client Security), which I believe provides better defense. I also run PeerGuardian on my w2k3 server/router and I'm still looking for a decent unified threat management program that provides subnet and workstation level bandwidth monitoring. Anywho - what I'd really like to see is the full results of a netstat /b command: start > Run > CMD type "netstat /b /v" minus the quotes When it's finished, click on the "c:\" icon in the blue title bar of the command window and select edit > select all Press enter. Open Notepad (start > programs > accessories > notepad) and press ctrl + v (or go to edit > paste) Save the file and send it to us. If the command window isn't wide enough to show everything clearly, click on the icon in the title bar and select "properties". Click the "Layout" tab. Change the "width" for both "Screen buffer size" and "window size" to something like 100 or 200. Click OK. Try to get this while or immediately after she gets one of her wonky popups or poltergeist attacks. It might be useful to have the command window set up and ready so that when it happens she can just hit enter to get the screen. Hijack this is also good - but I've never spent the time to figure it out.

You DO recall that before Pharaoh freed Israel, the firstborn of EVERY Egyptian family was killed? We're talking millions of people, old, young, bond, free, male, female - all killed in an instant by God himself. We are told over and over in Sunday school that God uses us to answer prayers - we are His instruments in helping other people's lives. Why is it so hard to believe that we can also be His instruments in taking them? You do also recall the whole flood story? An entire WORLD (not just a city or a nation) was whiped out that time - and yet it was one of the greatest acts of compassion demonstrated in the Old Testament. With an "eternal perspective" these things are truly of little consequence to those supposed victims - but potentially of gigantic consequence to those spirits awaiting to come to mortality. The living Amorites had already exercised their agency - and in doing so they were taking away the agency of any children that they would have; they were committing the unforgivable sin on an unprecedented level. The same with the whole Earth in Noah's time. Had these nations continued to flourish, their descendants for generations - billions of souls - would have come to this world and never been able to choose righteousness, defeating the entire plan of salvation and making the Savior's atonement meaningless. Point blank - Satan would have won.

Since the porn and cyber issues are related, it may be that you haven't fully repented of either yet. Mention it all to your bishop and once you've gone through the repentance process make sure that you don't forget to forgive yourself!

You're right - that is a common scenario. However, if we assume that he did not install a trojan when he in fact did, and all she does is change her passwords - the problem is not solved. If we assume he did install a trojan even if he didn't - we still change her passwords and her computer is only more secure.And if he's a wannabe who's pretending to be cooler than he is, that's all the more reason to mess with him Hyperbole. Exaggeration for effect.

He told her he left an "angel" behind to keep her company. That's practically an open admission of guilt (installing a trojan). EVERY trojan has a key logger which is how he got her e-mail password in the first place. And since he has the trojan on her computer if she changes her password, he'll still be able to get it and cause more trouble. And btw marshac - sub7 is OLD old school. Like LOD era old school. There are a LOT of much better, much newer trojans available now. My personal favorite (back in the day) was "The Beast". Rather feature packed with a microscopic server. It was one of the first that let you build a small server and then remotely inject additional features once it was installed.

Isn't that what He told Nephi to do? Kill Laban, deceive his servant into letting you steal the brass plates, kidnap the servant so he doesn't tell the guards.... At least God's consistent :) -- on a side note - I'd have thrown the unconscious Laban over my shoulder and carried him out of the city and back to our cave and then pulled the "good cop bad cop" routine - "if you don't hand over the plates I'll let Laman and Lamuel have their way with you" The real question isn't whether or not God commanded these things. The question is why did he do it. The answer to Nephi's situation is in the scriptures - it's better that "one man should perish than a whole nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief". I think the same answer applies en masse to the Israelites utter destruction of those nations already residing in Canaan when they showed up. As far as God's instructions regarding the cities that are "very far off" - the "why" is probably there somewhere but I haven't searched for it. So now we know WHY God chose to command some of these things. Your next step is to decide whether or not you're going to let those reasons interfere with your faith.

Doctrine and Covenants 84 40 Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which he cannot break, neither can it be moved. 41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come. So no. For a woman, perhaps. But for a priesthood holder apparently not. The priesthood comes with significant additional covenants that apparently have a pretty weighty consequence for breaking them - the same conseqence as for blasphemers and murderers. That being - no forgiveness. If he has received the Melchisedec Priesthood and then leaves the church he's screwed unless he repents in this life. At least that's my take. Please people feel free to discuss this more - I hate having a one sided scripture discussion.