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Everything posted by rameumptom
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Yes. God and man are of the same species. Therefore, logic and reason are attributes of both. However, as Vort noted, God is able to logically reason better than most mortals.
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KJV is only available in English. Other versions found in other languages, such as the Reina Valera in Spanish.
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Ask them what they have planned for that night. If they have nothing, then ask them if they'll go and visit your home teaching families with you. This is especially good if they are less active. Invite the families to take the missionary discussions from the elders again, and that you will be glad to attend or have the discussions in your own home.
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The Holy Ghost can visit any person that is ready to receive it. The Gift of the Holy Ghost as a constant companion comes to us by laying on of hands. The Lord may make exceptions to this, as with his own baptism, and perhaps with those in Cornelius' house. But it later became the standard for most occasions, and in our day, as well.
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Have a nice ring ceremony performed by the bishop. Invite them to that ceremony.
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While the LDS Church uses the KJV as its "official" book, it does so primarily for standardization reasons. There is nothing wrong with using other versions, such as the Septuagint, in one's study and research.
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Stephen and everyone else, While I believe the LDS Church has many great truths revealed to it, many of which were lost long ago, I also believe the Catholic Church to be filled with many wonderful Christians. I cannot think in history since the medieval times of many greater Christians than Mother Theresa, St Francis of Assisi, or John Paul II. I think there is a great reward awaiting such great people in heaven. I also believe there is great reward for Joseph Smith and other great LDS prophets and others, who have served God to the best of their ability. Perhaps the only difference is in the covenants we make that can make a difference in how our final reward may end up. I believe there is more to unite us than to divide us in Christianity. I would hope we would first seek to be united as the children of God through Christ.
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The reality is, all religions have highlights and lowlights in their history. The Catholics have had some issues with Inquisitions, the Southern Baptists supported slavery and the KKK, and the LDS once believed blacks were cursed and were involved in the Mountain Meadows Massacre. The Catholics also started the first schools, via the Jesuits. The first hospitals, promoted science and lots of charitable activities in the world. The LDS church has also done and taught some wonderful things in its short history. History does not prove whether a Church is approved of God or not. We cannot prove the apostasy. But Stephen cannot disprove it, either. It is a belief, based upon one interpretation of history. History can support it, just as history can possibly support the idea of papal succession. There are both things for and against both propositions. As a historian, I will say that I do not have a testimony of the history of the LDS Church. But then, Stephen shouldn't have a testimony of the history of the Catholic Church, either. We both should have a testimony of the teachings of the Bible, of Christ, and the good teachings coming from our spiritual leaders.
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Tell her that you need her to communicate better. Then explain that for you to function in your calling, you will need x number of days heads up for practice, x number of days to practice a piece, etc. If you are not given what you need, you will not be at practice, as you want to do a great job at your calling, and not just muddle through it because you did not receive what you needed to succeed in your call.
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The NT is talking about resurrection. Sadduccees asked Jesus about a woman who had 7 husband/brothers, which one would be her husband in the resurrection. Jesus knew the Sadduccees did not believe in resurrection, and was teaching them that a Sadduccee would not be married in heaven, because their marriages aren't for eternity (they do not believe in an after life). Now, a discussion that is specifically about marriage is the one where it says, let no man put marriage asunder. As for the prophets getting paid, they do get a stipend, or living expense. It is not a salary. It is paid for out of the Church's investments, and not from tithes, unlike other churches where the priest is paid from the donations of the Church. A big difference here is that there is only a handful of people out of a church of almost 15 million getting a stipend so they can serve full time. Yet the hundreds of thousands of stake presidents, bishops, quorum and auxiliary presidents, etc., do not get paid. Meanwhile, in pretty much all other churches, every priest or pastor gets paid for their services.
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With the sealing, you promised to love and be devoted to your spouse. Love is a choice, not just an uncontrollable emotion. Lust or attraction are emotions. We can always imagine that the one who got away was Ms Perfect, but in reality, no one is perfect. So, choose your wife. Choose her totally and completely. Be glad for your choice. Instead of focusing on what you do not have, focus on the blessings you do have. Eventually, the desire for the other woman will go away, as attractions do not last without real love. Focus on the why you love your wife. Only you can convince you that it is real. It will take time to rewire your brain to fully accept the concept, but if you spend time each day thinking about how wonderful your wife is, and how she loves you, and how you do not deserve her, but are lucky to have her, your love will grow for her. And eventually, you will not want anyone else.
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BTW, asking the average bishop for proof of the apostasy can be problematic. First, proof is very hard to establish. Evidence is a better term to use, as there is no way to prove most things via history, except basic facts. For example, prove whether Arius or Athanasius was correct by more than just the voting of the council. It can't be done, especially if both are incorrect. Second, bishops and most members are not theologians. Mormons tend more towards orthopraxy than orthodoxy. Had you asked the bishop for information on the commandments or how a certain process in Mormonism should work, he probably could have given you a good discussion regarding it. Unlike Catholic bishops or evangelical pastors, who spend years in training on orthodoxy, we take our bishops off the streets. I've had bishops who have been brick layers, carpenters, lawyers, grocers, military, insurance agents, doctors, prison workers, machinists, etc. Never have I had a theologian for a bishop.
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We believe that all people who seek to follow Christ and the teachings in the Bible are good and honorable people of God. Here, we invite those who wish to, to hear the higher teachings given via modern prophets, and to add upon the good they have learned in their previous Christian churches. You may continue rejoicing in Christ with your family and friends, as you also may share the greater truths and light, which Christ wishes us to share with those around us.
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First, the Great Apostasy does not equate to a complete and total blackout of truths and light. This is often a straw man set up to knock down the concept that there was a falling away. Second, history shows that there was lots of competition in early Christianity for the soul of the main Church. Prof Bart Ehrman has written several books related to this, all excellent. He explains that scripture was being modified by both Gnostics, proto-orthodox and others, trying to prove their version of scripture was correct. The Comma Johanneum is an example of a proto-orthodox interpolation. Ehrman notes that of the ancient New Testament texts currently available that were written before the printing press, there are more changes/differences than there are words in the New Testaments. Yes, most of these are minor, but many are very significant, as well. That Origen taught that the Godhead was the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, with the Son and Holy Ghost "subordinate" to the Father was accepted in his day as a defender of the proto-orthodox Church, is undeniable. That a couple centuries later, St Augustine, Jerome, Athanasius and others denounced him as a heretic, is also true. So, we see a change in the earlier doctrines to newer beliefs later on. Councils such as Nicea and Chalcedon were established to settle doctrines that could not be decided within the Bible. At Nicea, two different doctrines were discussed about the Trinity, though a third doctrine Origenism, was also present. The concept of whether the Godhead was one being, but three persons; or whether they were three physically separate persons/beings was disputed. Athanasius' Trinity won the day, but almost lost over the ensuing century to Arianism. Eusebius of Caesarea and others were followers of Origen's view that the three were separate beings, Christ subordinate to God, but all were Gods in a Trinity. Bart Ehrman writes that the Bible was eventually closed by the proto-orthodox Athanasius and Jerome, because they wanted to end the varying arguments over what constituted doctrine and what constituted scripture. Many extra-Biblical books were used for centuries as scripture: Shepherd of Hermas, Enoch, Odes of Solomon, Gospel of Barnabas, etc. These were all rejected, because there was no strong evidence that they were actually written by its claimed author. We almost lost Revelation and Hebrews for the same reason, except the Western Church insisted they remain if they were going to accept the canon. Eventually, the closed canon defeated Gnostics and others, leaving us with a proto-orthodoxy to run things. In closing the canon, they closed the book on future prophets and future scriptural revelation from God. In his treatise and dialogue with the Jew Trypho, Justin Martyr explained that Judaism had lost its way when they rejected continuing revelation, and if Christianity ever did the same, the religion would be as dead as Judaism. Today, most Bible scholars believe that 1/2 of Paul's letters were not written by him. The Gospels were not originals, with the exception of Mark. Matthew and Luke are both derivative works from Mark. The epistles of Peter, James and John are also suspect. So, closing the canon did not give us what Jerome was looking for. Do LDS believe the New Testament and Bible to still be inspired? Yes. Do we believe it is complete? No. Almost 70 years ago, archaeologists found the Dead Sea Scrolls. In it, we find all the books of the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament), except Esther. We also find hundreds of other books that were considered inspired words of God. One book is thought to be another book of Moses! Some foresee the Messiah, describing a baptism akin to John the Baptist's, and a Sacrament of bread and wine. What do we do with all of those writings? Should the Old Testament be opened up to accept them? The New Testament quotes or references statements from the Book of Enoch about 39 times. The biggest quote is found in Jude. If Christ and his apostles quoted Enoch, then why did Jerome reject it and not include it in his Bible? The same can be said of some other early books, as well. Also about 70 years ago, a cache of Coptic Christian books were found in Nag Hammadi Egypt. While many of the books are Gnostic in nature, there are several that are believed to have been used by most early Christians. Why are those not included in our Bible? So, the Great Apostasy is a loss of some ancient teachings and concepts. It is a loss of prophets, who can add to the official scripture whenever God commands. It is a loss of authority, as apostolic authority and power were replaced with philosophies of men in the councils. For those who insist on a God-breathed text, these evidences show the Bible is not perfect, nor complete. We believe it to be inspired of God, regardless. And we're amazed at how well the Lord's teachings were preserved in it. Still, the creeds that came out of a variety of uninspired councils affected many key issues of Christianity that needed to be restored. For this reason, we believe in an apostasy, and in a Restoration of lost truths, revelations, and authority from God.
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Bishops do an annual accounting of tithes paid, usually in December. This is where the person declares if he/she is a full or part tithe payer or not. This helps the bishop to determine the worthiness of a person to hold certain callings or attend the temple. Most bishops do not harp on people about tithing, except to encourage them to keep the commandments necessary in order to have the blessings of the temple. Since bishops are not paid, it isn't like this is affecting their paycheck or anything. It is only a concern that the person may be failing in keeping covenants made at baptism, and failing at progressing spiritually. It may be there is one bishop out there that may do this. But several? Highly unlikely. I'm guessing she has a bone to pick with the Church, and is exaggerating (yes, even lying) to seek others to support her against the mean old Church. It is all a matter of perspective. For you, tithing settlement is not a bother. For her, it is an intrusion into her personal life.
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We cooperate with other religions on many levels. Much of our offerings for the poor are used in conjunction with Catholic Charities and other religious organizations in many nations, as there is no need to have two organizations doing the same thing in the same place. In many areas, we have ecumenical discussions. For example, in Nauvoo Illinois, they have a monthly ecumenical discussion, which include leaders from the Catholic, LDS, Evangelical and other religions in the area. I know in our area, we reach out to other religions. I'm on a speaker's bureau, where I've explained Mormonism to other groups, including one of the major Catholic churches here. It definitely helps in us seeing that we have more in common than not.
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Would you date a young widow?
rameumptom replied to SerenaB's topic in Young Single Adults, College and Institute
You just teach the kids that they have two fathers, one biological and one sealed, and that both will be in their lives here and in the next life for eternity. That's all there is to it. The relationship doesn't end, simply because there is no direct sealing. We are all sealed to God, and therefore related. Those loving relations will continue, well into the next life. -
One other item to add to Vort's list is child molestation. It is becoming a very serious problem within the Church and elsewhere. If a young man has molested a child, he must have the First Presidency's approval to serve a mission, which is unlikely to occur, given the gravity of it. It would be very sad to have a missionary abuse a child on his mission, don't you think?
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Finrock, but your description still defines a difference. It is God who gives us divinity and all of His gifts. We do not become gods (whether subordinate to him or equal - whatever that means to divine beings) on our own. Even if God gives us all his knowledge, power and ability, we would still owe Christ for the atonement, and God for bestowing us with such an endowment of grace. In many ways, we still would not be equal to the Godhead, even as they welcome us to be one with them.
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The Church raised its standards for going on a mission, because they found too many missionaries were having problems in the mission field and then being sent home. It set a very bad example for those members and non-members in the mission field, to see missionaries having immorality issues with local girls. So, the standard is higher now. Some can go, even if they previously had immorality issues, but only after a period of at least one year for repentance, etc. I'm guessing your family member did not want to wait a year, or do the things necessary to go on a mission. It is possible that your family and friends are not giving you all the information regarding these things.
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Just remember that those who speak in Sacrament and those working in the temple are not theologians, nor are they necessarily well read in the doctrines of the Church. People misunderstand many tenets of the gospel, and in this the sister was wrong. The Bible teaches that we are "heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ" and that through Christ we may receive all the Father has. But he will always be our God, and we will forever worship him. The day will come when we are in the real Celestial room of God's heavenly temple, and when we see him, we will all fall down on our knees. We are told that every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. There will be an appropriate time to kneel, and that is when we are literally in God's presence. This Celestial room is a place for quiet prayer, but not distractions from the Holy Spirit, as her kneeling would have caused.
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Would you date a young widow?
rameumptom replied to SerenaB's topic in Young Single Adults, College and Institute
Trust in the Lord, and he'll prepare the way for you to find a wonderful man for the rest of this life. This life is really such a small bit of our existence that we should not consider 2 years or 50 years a long time to dwell with one person. As for the sealing, it seals us to the family of God. Any and all righteous spouses you have, will still have some form of relationship with you and your children into the next life. Example: When called as an apostle Heber J Grant at the young age of 25, he wanted to know why he was called at such a young age. His biological father was Jedediah Grant, who died 9 days after Heber was born. His mother was sealed to Joseph Smith. In praying to know why he was called an apostle, Heber saw both fathers at the bar of God, pleading to have him called an apostle. IOW, relationships do not die, nor are they ended in death, although they may be different than what we imagine them now. -
While your mom grew up in the church, it doesn't sound as if she knows the church as well as she may have thought. She viewed it from a child/teenager's eye, and not the eye of an adult. And she would not have understood it from an adult's perspective. Perhaps the two of you need to talk with the missionaries, and have them share the discussions with you as a starting point. For example, it seems your family members do not understand how merciful God is. He will give to all of his children the maximum amount of blessings they truly desire. One does not have to be sealed to be in the Celestial Kingdom or share family relations with others. Those relationships cannot reach their maximum potential without the sealing (providing future children, etc). Now, we have to truly desire it more than anything else. We have to decide whether smoking, using drugs or sleeping around is more important to us than keeping the basic commandments, so we can obtain the greatest blessings. But the requirements for the temple are not that stringent, nor complex. If a person believes in God and Christ, and in the restoration through Joseph Smith; if a person will follow the living prophets and apostles; if a person will attend church meetings, live the Word of Wisdom, tithe, be chaste, and strive to be honest with others, then that person is worthy of a temple recommend. We are not expected to be perfect. The requirements for the temple is we have to be living a Terrestrial level life, and not a telestial/wicked one. With some effort, most people can qualify for it.
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Perhaps if you lived further away from temples, it would have meant more to you. Our groundbreaking for the Indianapolis temple is at the end of the month, and we'll have 18 months or so until our open house. Having the nearest temples several hours away, makes this a choice experience, not a drudgery.