Gain Revelation from the Evil One?!

[tubaloth]

Reading about Judas conspiring to offer up Christ for 30 pieces of silver, Elder McConkie writes this:

All things are governed by law. Through obedience and righteousness men are able to receive revelation from the Holy Spirit; through disobedience and wickedness (which course constitutes conformity to the laws which govern in this field) men are able to receive impressions, guidance, and even revelation from the Evil Spirit. Judas was in this latter category; he had descended to that depth of spiritual depravity where he consorted with and was subject to the will of evil spirits. There is no curtailment of agency in either of these courses; both are pursued by deliberate choice.

(Bruce R. McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 3 vols. [salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1965-1973], 1: 702.)

I found that amazing for two main reasons.

1. To some degree the Laws that govern Revelation, are still in effect (to some degree) all way through out the spectrum of Righteousness even to the other side to Evil.

2. That in following Evil you are in a sense become “in tune” with it. So much so that you gain guidance, and revelation from the Evil one. I found that pretty amazing!! But in a way that explains how Cain, Judas, even Korihor all ended up listening so much to the Evil spirit.

I have always realized that people can loose the light of Christ, or even become bound by Satan as we listen to him. I just never thought of Satan’s temptations, was like gaining revelation from Satan.

[skalenfehl]

Interesting. I also thought of Cain and Korihor and also Sherem.

[skalenfehl]

Alma 30: 12, 23, 36, 43, 48, 50-52, 56-58

12 And this Anti-Christ, whose name was Korihor, (and the law could have no hold upon him) began to preach unto the people that there should be no Christ. And after this manner did he preach, saying:

• • •

23 Now the high priest’s name was Giddonah. And Korihor said unto him: Because I do not teach the foolish traditions of your fathers, and because I do not teach this people to bind themselves down under the foolish ordinances and performances which are laid down by ancient priests, to usurp power and authority over them, to keep them in ignorance, that they may not lift up their heads, but be brought down according to thy words.

• • •

36 And Korihor answered him, Yea.

• • •

43 And now Korihor said unto Alma: If thou wilt show me a sign, that I may be convinced that there is a God, yea, show unto me that he hath power, and then will I be convinced of the truth of thy words.

• • •

48 Now Korihor said unto him: I do not deny the existence of a God, but I do not believe that there is a God; and I say also, that ye do not know that there is a God; and except ye show me a sign, I will not believe.

• • •

50 Now when Alma had said these words, Korihor was struck dumb, that he could not have utterance, according to the words of Alma.

51 And now when the chief judge saw this, he put forth his hand and wrote unto Korihor, saying: Art thou convinced of the power of God? In whom did ye desire that Alma should show forth his sign? Would ye that he should afflict others, to show unto thee a sign? Behold, he has showed unto you a sign; and now will ye dispute more?

52 And Korihor put forth his hand and wrote, saying: I know that I am dumb, for I cannot speak; and I know that nothing save it were the power of God could bring this upon me; yea, and I always knew that there was a God.

• • •

56 And it came to pass that the curse was not taken off of Korihor; but he was cast out, and went about from house to house begging for his food.

57 Now the knowledge of what had happened unto Korihor was immediately published throughout all the land; yea, the proclamation was sent forth by the chief judge to all the people in the land, declaring unto those who had believed in the words of Korihor that they must speedily repent, lest the same judgments would come unto them.

58 And it came to pass that they were all convinced of the wickedness of Korihor; therefore they were all converted again unto the Lord; and this put an end to the iniquity after the manner of Korihor. And Korihor did go about from house to house, begging food for his support.

Jacob 7:1,2, 13-20

1 And now it came to pass after some years had passed away, there came a man among the people of Nephi, whose name was Sherem.

2 And it came to pass that he began to preach among the people, and to declare unto them that there should be no Christ. And he preached many things which were flattering unto the people; and this he did that he might overthrow the doctrine of Christ.

13 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Show me a sign by this power of the Holy Ghost, in the which ye know so much.

14 And I said unto him: What am I that I should tempt God to show unto thee a sign in the thing which thou knowest to be true? Yet thou wilt deny it, because thou art of the devil. Nevertheless, not my will be done; but if God shall smite thee, let that be a sign unto thee that he has power, both in heaven and in earth; and also, that Christ shall come. And thy will, O Lord, be done, and not mine.

15 And it came to pass that when I, Jacob, had spoken these words, the power of the Lord came upon him, insomuch that he fell to the earth. And it came to pass that he was nourished for the space of many days.

16 And it came to pass that he said unto the people: Gather together on the morrow, for I shall die; wherefore, I desire to speak unto the people before I shall die.

17 And it came to pass that on the morrow the multitude were gathered together; and he spake plainly unto them and denied the things which he had taught them, and confessed the Christ, and the power of the Holy Ghost, and the ministering of angels.

18 And he spake plainly unto them, that he had been deceived by the power of the devil. And he spake of hell, and of eternity, and of eternal punishment.

19 And he said: I fear lest I have committed the unpardonable sin, for I have lied unto God; for I denied the Christ, and said that I believed the scriptures; and they truly testify of him. And because I have thus lied unto God I greatly fear lest my case shall be awful; but I confess unto God.

20 And it came to pass that when he had said these words he could say no more, and he gave up the ghost.

[Guest Xzain]

*Shudder*

I truly believe it. Being a spirit, Satan and his angels have no physical power, but they can intice their followers to use unkown (to us) powers to work evil in this world.

As a friend once told me, Satan, not being behind the veil, knows secrets of the Father that we are not ready to understand.

I'm grateful that the Holy Ghost acts as a protector and a shield from the evil influences of the adversary.

It is interesting to realize that even Satan, kind of like the embodiment of the antithesis of Truth, still must abide by laws to reveal his secrets.

[A whole bunch of neatly layed out scripture citations.]

Skalenfehl, where do you get your scriptural references for copy/pasting? I like how easily they're layed out.

[Guest Username-Removed]

The thing about Satan is that if you do get revelation and direction from him, its only because you disire it. The sad thing is that his only desire is to see men fail. There is no protection - in fact he leads you into a trap so that you can not listen to spiritual guideance. Unfortunately, the only way back is through intense humility. Then the spirit can influence again. I have many friends outside the church and thier lives are full of dead ends, with no direction. There was a time in my life were I didnt have the spiritual direction that I have today. Its incredible to be an actual part of his gospel on earth. What a wonderful calling to be able to influence others to come back. Its funny, all the things that the world thinks are great, simply arent in comparison to actually living the gospel. Some might think that I am deluding myself, but I've been in their shoes and I know exactly what its like on the other side. I've stood in that spacious building. What a waste of time!

[Jenamarie]

The thing about Satan is that if you do get revelation and direction from him, its only because you disire it. The sad thing is that his only desire is to see men fail. There is no protection - in fact he leads you into a trap so that you can not listen to spiritual guideance. Unfortunately, the only way back is through intense humility. Then the spirit can influence again. I have many friends outside the church and thier lives are full of dead ends, with no direction. There was a time in my life were I didnt have the spiritual direction that I have today. Its incredible to be an actual part of his gospel on earth. What a wonderful calling to be able to influence others to come back. Its funny, all the things that the world thinks are great, simply arent in comparison to actually living the gospel. Some might think that I am deluding myself, but I've been in their shoes and I know exactly what its like on the other side. I've stood in that spacious building. What a waste of time!

The bolded sentence stood out to me. I wouldn't exactly call myself spiritually depraved, but just today I had a very recognizable (in hindsight) "spirtual prompting" of the Advisary, trying to lead me into a trap, and it scared my spiritual pants off! It was amazing how quickly he acted on my weakness and tried to take me further from the Spirit!

This is from my blog today:

My husband and I had a rather heated disagreement before church started this morning. I was filled with all sorts of negative feelings about him, and a look he gave me during Sacrament meeting had me trying to come up with a list of grievances to throw at him when we got home.

When it came time for Sunday School I felt really really strongly that I needed to leave. My emotions were high, and the idea of just going home and having a good cry sounded really appealing. But I thought about how it's most likely not what the Lord would want me to do, so I tried to calm myself down as best I could and sit through the lesson.

The very first thing the teacher said was "What are some truths you take to be hard?" Some of the people mentioned things like "you need to read your scriptures", while others mentioned being told by their kids that they're doing the very things they've told their kids not to do. The teacher then went on to explain how defensive we sometimes get when we're told things we don't want to hear. Which was essentially what I was planning to do to my poor husband when we got home. Throw a bunch of "truths" at him about all the things he was doing wrong, and probably setting us up for another huge argument.

I don't remember much of the lesson past that point, I was too busy thinking of how to more lovingly express to my husband the concerns I had about our marriage, and dropped several things from my "list of things to mention" that he was doing wrong, because it would only put him on the defensive and would not be productive at all.

I recognize now that that prompting to leave Sunday School was the adversary trying to catch me in my anger, and prevent me from having my eyes opened to a better way of dealing with my angry feelings towards my husband. He would like nothing better than to see my marriage fail!

[bert10]

tubaloth - Yes it is amazing isn't it. From my point of view...there are not that easy.

It is a little more complex from what people think. God shall allow the light and the darkness to be equally presented before men.

It is our choices that determines which path we are setting our feet on. And most are sleep walking and do not know that they are being led by the forces of wickedness.

For example did you know that most people pronounce the name of Pagan gods more often than the Name of the Lord in righteousness?

Did you know that the days of the week and the months are named after pagan symbology? The deceptions and the illusions of Satan are massive. And only they who pray to have their eyes opened shall be awakened from their sleep.

Satan does not need to bother with those who are asleep. They are already being deceived and led down the paths that lead to destruction.

To Get to the point where Satan shall appear as an angel of Light or simply come as he is...one has to be Spiritually where Moses was at the time. One of the heavenly laws is that Satan cannot attempt to deceive men and tempt men with powers and forces more than they can be bear.

Unless ones gives himself up to Satan or become so wicked...he will not receive revelations from satan. We can only receive revelations from Satan when we are able to distinguish if is from Satan or from God.

Also when one has the true Light of Christ one does not loose the light of Christ...one must actively and knowingly chose the darkness over the Light.

I hope this help.

Peace be unto you

bert10

Reading about Judas conspiring to offer up Christ for 30 pieces of silver, Elder McConkie writes this:

I found that amazing for two main reasons.

1. To some degree the Laws that govern Revelation, are still in effect (to some degree) all way through out the spectrum of Righteousness even to the other side to Evil.

2. That in following Evil you are in a sense become “in tune” with it. So much so that you gain guidance, and revelation from the Evil one. I found that pretty amazing!! But in a way that explains how Cain, Judas, even Korihor all ended up listening so much to the Evil spirit.

I have always realized that people can loose the light of Christ, or even become bound by Satan as we listen to him. I just never thought of Satan’s temptations, was like gaining revelation from Satan.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I find this interesting, especially regarding Judas. Was not the betrayal part of Heavenly Father's plan? Did Judas regret having betrayed his friend and therefore commit suicide in despair?

[Hemidakota]

Reading about Judas conspiring to offer up Christ for 30 pieces of silver, Elder McConkie writes this:

I found that amazing for two main reasons.

1. To some degree the Laws that govern Revelation, are still in effect (to some degree) all way through out the spectrum of Righteousness even to the other side to Evil.

2. That in following Evil you are in a sense become “in tune” with it. So much so that you gain guidance, and revelation from the Evil one. I found that pretty amazing!! But in a way that explains how Cain, Judas, even Korihor all ended up listening so much to the Evil spirit.

I have always realized that people can loose the light of Christ, or even become bound by Satan as we listen to him. I just never thought of Satan’s temptations, was like gaining revelation from Satan.

It is not just revelation that was being given to those men but allowing those promptings becoming actions. The sin is not the promptings but when you complied with actions of offense. You will find, in the Heavenly abode, there is no more promptings by the evil one.

[Hemidakota]

I find this interesting, especially regarding Judas. Was not the betrayal part of Heavenly Father's plan? Did Judas regret having betrayed his friend and therefore commit suicide in despair?

He had his free agency to chose. I think it was done out of guilt on what transpired. There was no Holy Ghost to testify to them directly that He surely was the living Christ.

Let me add some additional tidbit, his glory will be given to another - Apostleship.

[Hemidakota]

tubaloth - Yes it is amazing isn't it. From my point of view...there are not that easy.

It is a little more complex from what people think. God shall allow the light and the darkness to be equally presented before men.

It is our choices that determines which path we are setting our feet on. And most are sleep walking and do not know that they are being led by the forces of wickedness.

For example did you know that most people pronounce the name of Pagan gods more often than the Name of the Lord in righteousness?

Did you know that the days of the week and the months are named after pagan symbology? The deceptions and the illusions of Satan are massive. And only they who pray to have their eyes opened shall be awakened from their sleep.

Satan does not need to bother with those who are asleep. They are already being deceived and led down the paths that lead to destruction.

To Get to the point where Satan shall appear as an angel of Light or simply come as he is...one has to be Spiritually where Moses was at the time. One of the heavenly laws is that Satan cannot attempt to deceive men and tempt men with powers and forces more than they can be bear.

Unless ones gives himself up to Satan or become so wicked...he will not receive revelations from satan. We can only receive revelations from Satan when we are able to distinguish if is from Satan or from God.

Also when one has the true Light of Christ one does not loose the light of Christ...one must actively and knowingly chose the darkness over the Light.

I hope this help.

Peace be unto you

bert10

That hammer sure hit the nail squarely...

For those who had the Light of Truth revealed, will suffer at their own hands in where the atonement will have no effect on them if they truly seek no repentance.

[Hemidakota]

The thing about Satan is that if you do get revelation and direction from him, its only because you disire it. The sad thing is that his only desire is to see men fail. There is no protection - in fact he leads you into a trap so that you can not listen to spiritual guideance. Unfortunately, the only way back is through intense humility. Then the spirit can influence again. I have many friends outside the church and thier lives are full of dead ends, with no direction. There was a time in my life were I didnt have the spiritual direction that I have today. Its incredible to be an actual part of his gospel on earth. What a wonderful calling to be able to influence others to come back. Its funny, all the things that the world thinks are great, simply arent in comparison to actually living the gospel. Some might think that I am deluding myself, but I've been in their shoes and I know exactly what its like on the other side. I've stood in that spacious building. What a waste of time!

Not all promptings from the evil one is a desire but them knowing your own weakness and using that to bring about your downfall. As President B.K. Packard spoke often about thoughts entering into one's mind; "..for me, when these thoughts enter my mind, I would quickly sing a song..." I done this many times or just utter a prayer of gratitude to our FATHER.

[Guest Xzain]

I find this interesting, especially regarding Judas. Was not the betrayal part of Heavenly Father's plan? Did Judas regret having betrayed his friend and therefore commit suicide in despair?

I heard once that those who fulfill the prophecies found in the scriptures that require evil acts- i.e. Judas' betrayal of Jesus, the many abominations against the Jews in order to gather them, the wicked cunning of men to bring about the Apostasy- all these are prophecied because they will happen, not necessarily because they must. The Spirit tells of things 'as they really were, are, and will be'. Every human being that ever lived acted in perfect accordance with his/her agency and received the due consequences, including emotions and feelings, of their actions.

To shed some more light on your question- Judas did feel remorse for betraying Jesus, as most of us do after letting Satan gain a foothold in our spirit. He even attempted to pay back the Pharisees what they had given him in exchange for the Savior's life.

I heard that Joseph Smith said (this is officially a third-hand source; if anyone knows a quote it would be great ) that Judas' death was actually a sentence issued by Peter to the purpose of saving Judas' soul from eternal damnation for such grievous sin.

[skalenfehl]

Skalenfehl, where do you get your scriptural references for copy/pasting? I like how easily they're layed out.

Scriptures

You can type anything in the search box and it will bring up any and all available references. I simply typed in Sherem and Korihor in this case. You can also type in a scripture and it will post the exact verse(s) that you type in. For example, type 1 Nephi 3:7 in the search box.

I also go to the options menu and disable the "hide footnote indicators". This eliminates the a, b, c's, etc tags.

[Guest Xzain]

I also go to the options menu and disable the "hide footnote indicators". This eliminates the a, b, c's, etc tags.

Ah, thank you! I have also been using the lds.org online reference library, but this golden bit of information is what I really need (I hated always deleting the tags from the citations).

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Reading about Judas conspiring to offer up Christ for 30 pieces of silver, Elder McConkie writes this:

I found that amazing for two main reasons.

1. To some degree the Laws that govern Revelation, are still in effect (to some degree) all way through out the spectrum of Righteousness even to the other side to Evil.

2. That in following Evil you are in a sense become “in tune” with it. So much so that you gain guidance, and revelation from the Evil one. I found that pretty amazing!! But in a way that explains how Cain, Judas, even Korihor all ended up listening so much to the Evil spirit.

I have always realized that people can loose the light of Christ, or even become bound by Satan as we listen to him. I just never thought of Satan’s temptations, was like gaining revelation from Satan.

There is a difference between being tempted and receiving revelation from Satan. Just as obedience to the laws of the Gospel can yield revelation from God, disobedience to those laws can yield revelation from Satan, however that revelation is not always necessarily 100% truth.

The worst cases, however, I think are those where they ARE 100% truth. Very often we don't always get answers to some of our questions right away from the proper sources, and Satan is more than willing to use those opportunities to our disadvantage by giving us those answers immediately.

[Hemidakota]

Welcome back.....:)