Good LDS Men

[MorningStar]

I don't know the reason for it, but I know way more people who have broken up due to the man's actions than the woman's. When I was in Provo, I was surprised by how many guys were commitment phobic (including my husband until I talked some sense into him - ha ha ha ha ha) and I knew guys who changed their minds after they were already married. They suddenly wanted to live the bachelor life again. I couldn't believe my ears when my old friend got married and two weeks later her husband said he didn't really want to be married, he just wanted to date her again. Not long after that, she caught him on BYU campus without his wedding ring on, chatting up other girls.

A good friend of mine, her daughter has no interest in getting married again because her husband decided shortly after they were married that he wanted to start drinking and playing video games all the time, constantly hanging out with the guys, and ignoring her. He just decided he didn't want to be responsible after all. Now she feels like any guy who is interested in her only wants her for her looks. She dated her husband for a long time and she doesn't trust her own judgment anymore.

I do have a female relative who ran off and had an affair for a couple weeks and also left her kids for a few days. Her first marriage ended. She claims her husband constantly nagged her about her weight, but that's no excuse for what she did. Then her second marriage ended because she was sick of her husband being drunk, stoned, and cheap.

[checkerboy]

checkerboy...on these on-line sites where you sent messages to women, what information/pictures did they have to go off of to see if they were interested in replying back to you?

Ok I think everyone is forgetting the tongue in cheek part of this thread. I am in no hurry to get remarried. Seriously. I may act like I am desperate to meet women but I am not. I want to meet people in general and have fun. I have put myself out there as a decent, God fearing, respectful person. If someone wants to talk to me then fine but I figure I need to spend some time working on myself before I can worry about someone else. That is what doomed my first marriage. I didn't spend enough time become perfected in Christ and lost my vision as to how awesome marriage can really be.

Anyway my hope is that if there is anyone out there that are having problems in their relationships that they would take a good long look at themselves and figure out what their problems are before they go pointing fingers. You can only change yourself.

[skalenfehl]

Ok, alright, I just gotta ask. Are you a Duran Duran fan?

[Guest Kamperfoelie]

Currently not wed so no right to speak, but... ive got an opinion anyway

It sounds like your sitting back and counting on a numeric advantage to bring girls to you. Something about that seems to jar with me. See: men hunt, women gather. That's nature (God-given nature, for those who wanna nit-pick).

Sitting back and expecting girls to hunt is to expect them to play 'your' role. In short: as a man you're supposed to be the hunter. its part of the role you were put here to play!

And Im talking about a proper hunter too: one that prepares for the hunt, chases and will occasionally go flat on his face, but still carry on.

(not saying that girls dont do most the work anyway, but they're so much better than us at making it seem it was all our idea)

Hmm i forget now what the point is i was trying to make, but I hope you realise that sitting back is not the way to go.

[checkerboy]

Currently not wed so no right to speak, but... ive got an opinion anyway

It sounds like your sitting back and counting on a numeric advantage to bring girls to you. Something about that seems to jar with me. See: men hunt, women gather. That's nature (God-given nature, for those who wanna nit-pick).

Sitting back and expecting girls to hunt is to expect them to play 'your' role. In short: as a man you're supposed to be the hunter. its part of the role you were put here to play!

And Im talking about a proper hunter too: one that prepares for the hunt, chases and will occasionally go flat on his face, but still carry on.

(not saying that girls dont do most the work anyway, but they're so much better than us at making it seem it was all our idea)

Hmm i forget now what the point is i was trying to make, but I hope you realise that sitting back is not the way to go.

Let me refer you back to post #23 in which I make it clear that I have been hunting. But at what point does the hunter say well I am not catching anything so maybe it is time to become a farmer? Anyway I will keep being the man and when I feel like the time is right I may start hunting again, only this time I will be more careful so that I am not tricked by my prey again. Otherwise I am gonna tend to my little garden and if anyone should come knocking I won't turn them away.

[RachelleDrew]

Let me refer you back to post #23 in which I make it clear that I have been hunting. But at what point does the hunter say well I am not catching anything so maybe it is time to become a farmer? Anyway I will keep being the man and when I feel like the time is right I may start hunting again, only this time I will be more careful so that I am not tricked by my prey again. Otherwise I am gonna tend to my little garden and if anyone should come knocking I won't turn them away.

A farmer? Are you going to grow a wife in a test tube or something? Lol.

[Guest Kamperfoelie]

Well good on you for keeping trying CB!

[checkerboy]

A farmer? Are you going to grow a wife in a test tube or something? Lol.

Oh if only, if only.

[the Ogre]

. . . I was once told that there are at least 7 worthy LDS women for every one worthy LDS man . . .

Man, do I doubt this knowing the sisters in my ward's relief society. They are so competitive and clique-centered that many young-marrieds refuse to attend our Orem ward and go to a BYU one instead because the RS is so heartless and cold to people who don't fit in with their own socio-economic class.

I'm lucky I guess as a single male (I do have custody of my kids however) in that I don't have to boot out really rude, snobby visiting teachers. My home teachers are great, but like me are fringe members of the ward even if one is a seminary teacher and the other a lawyer (he's black however).

The church is true, but my ward's RS is the kind of evil that scares people away or out of the church.

[the Ogre]

Here's a massive generalisation:

Society on the whole is less tolerant of women who screw up and more vocal when men screw up.

BAH . . . !

[the Ogre]

to the OP: why are you waiting for your door to be beaten down? shouldn't you be out there doing the looking?

What the . . .

No!!! The searching needs to be equal. My bishop has made me commit to stop being a jerk (he doesn't care what I do in the virtual world), shave, wear white shirts to church, stop mocking the ward alpha-female, and consider going on a diet all so I might remarry, but does he make the same requirement of the single women in our ward? I doubt (I still love my bishop though, he is a nice guy trying to make things nice in my ward and doesn't need a guy several thousand dollars under the poverty level with kids making life hard for the beautiful and socially acceptable) it.

I don't make an effort so I don't expect one. But if I start and still no interest, why should I bother? I'll finish college, raise my kids, finally move up like the Jeffersons after grad-school is complete (and after my sons finish their missions), buy my own house and bother the bishop in that ward by being the one dude who will not conform with the concept that only the man may chase by being available, but ignoring all the women who refuse to reciprocate.

The chase must be equal and fair, if not who needs it?!?

Aaron the Ogre

[the Ogre]

There isn't a week that I have to ask this question when members want to repent [males].

BAH!!!

[the Ogre]

Currently not wed so no right to speak, but... ive got an opinion anyway

It sounds like your sitting back and counting on a numeric advantage to bring girls to you. Something about that seems to jar with me. See: men hunt, women gather. That's nature (God-given nature, for those who wanna nit-pick).

Sitting back and expecting girls to hunt is to expect them to play 'your' role. In short: as a man you're supposed to be the hunter. its part of the role you were put here to play!

And Im talking about a proper hunter too: one that prepares for the hunt, chases and will occasionally go flat on his face, but still carry on.

(not saying that girls dont do most the work anyway, but they're so much better than us at making it seem it was all our idea)

Hmm i forget now what the point is i was trying to make, but I hope you realise that sitting back is not the way to go.

Man,

The feminist in me is wanting to just go nuts. What's up with this hunter/gather stuff? We live in the information age, not the stone age. Roles are what you make of them not the other way around.

If a man doesn't what to hunt but would rather gather friends about him and than find one who is the best friend to marry, what is wrong with that? Nothing of course.

There is nothing wrong with ignoring both those roles and seeking another direction. Do I have top be a caveman just because my nom-de-plume is the Ogre? No! I am my own person and that is how everyone should be not expecting to live up to the fake standards some people have.

Grow-up and out of the ice-age!!!

[VisionOfLehi]

What the . . .

No!!! The searching needs to be equal. My bishop has made me commit to stop being a jerk (he doesn't care what I do in the virtual world), shave, wear white shirts to church, stop mocking the ward alpha-female, and consider going on a diet all so I might remarry, but does he make the same requirement of the single women in our ward? I doubt (I still love my bishop though, he is a nice guy trying to make things nice in my ward and doesn't need a guy several thousand dollars under the poverty level with kids making life hard for the beautiful and socially acceptable) it.

I have a friend who says you know you have a good Bishop or not depending on whether he approaches you about wearing white shirts to Church instead of colored ones. lol

We'll see how that goes. I, for one, am not going to just buy a bunch of white shirts. I need new shirts for Church that fit, and I'm getting some color.

It annoys me to hear that people are judgmental about that. The missionaries taught me, and still tell me, to come in what I can. A cheap pair of dress pants, and a nice shirt, that's what I've got. Sometimes there's no tie. I've worn white about 50% of the time. No one in my ward has a problem with it, but I've been told out in the Bubble they're uptight about it.

[the Ogre]

The missionaries taught me, and still tell me, to come in what I can. A cheap pair of dress pants, and a nice shirt, that's what I've got. Sometimes there's no tie. I've worn white about 50% of the time. No one in my ward has a problem with it, but I've been told out in the Bubble they're uptight about it.

Vision:

I'm with you. It doesn't matter. I think church attire should be respectful and clean, but pushing the white stuff is a little much (note: I haven't worn a tie made out of hemp or depicting drug-use like many of the young men, ever, but I do have many Tasmanian Devil ties that some of the sisters disapprove of). I however live in Utah, and the Bish thinks I ought to marry as soon as possible (we've been negotiating what he means by ASAP--I think an Asian view of time is fine, but I don't think he agrees).

[Fiannan]

I have to say I am married to a very good man.

I think a big problem is Pornography. More men are addicted to it than women. And that leads to other sins. Now if something was to happen to my dear husband, I have to say I wouldn't date a person with this problem. I have watched too many of my girlfriends cry over this issue in their marriage. I know I could not handle it. So I guess there are sins that a person could do in the past that would make me not date them.

I am not sure pornography has affected men as much as it has women nowadays. I agree that many practices have become more common probably due to porn (from full body hair removal to experimentation with activities that were once frowned upon or even illegal) but I think the affect has been more pronounced in the female gender as younger women explore internet porn at levels equal to males.

The days of just assuming your teenage son was the one you had to worry about in regards to dating and standards has evolved to where now you probably need to warn your son as much as couples in the 1950s were warning their daughters about boys.

[Palerider]

I am not sure pornography has affected men as much as it has women nowadays. I agree that many practices have become more common probably due to porn (from full body hair removal to experimentation with activities that were once frowned upon or even illegal) but I think the affect has been more pronounced in the female gender as younger women explore internet porn at levels equal to males.

The days of just assuming your teenage son was the one you had to worry about in regards to dating and standards has evolved to where now you probably need to warn your son as much as couples in the 1950s were warning their daughters about boys.

I don't totally agree with you.....while serving as a Bishop we often had Bishops training meetings and as Bishops we mentioned the amount of Men who are having porn problems on the internet.....the amount of women was nill if any at all.

[Fiannan]

I don't totally agree with you.....while serving as a Bishop we often had Bishops training meetings and as Bishops we mentioned the amount of Men who are having porn problems on the internet.....the amount of women was nill if any at all.

Well that's interesting because I read an article about teens in Utah and the one thing that caught my eye was that while male teens were more likely to have visited porn sites than females (not really a huge statistical difference though) females who visited them were more likely to go back. That indicates regular use. And please, don't say that this probably was due to non-members being the ones giving these answers.

Perhaps most female LDS would never dream of telling a male official of the Church that they were viewing porn. Maybe they rationalize in many ways why it's not as bad for a female to view this sort of thing. Tell you what, ask a group of young females who Jenna Jamison is -- bet you'll be surprised with how many know the answer. And before anyone makes any hasty judgements on me I can just say that the reason I know is due to working with someone who asked me to watch a debate she did on O'Reily..

[Truegrits]

I can absolutely see how a young (even an older) female might be embarrassed and unwilling to talk to a Bishop, or any male, on the subject.

So, statistically, the numbers on female 'participation' may not be accurate.

I can see the young, male or female, being curious and checking a site out; I am not convinced however, that females are "returning" viewers.

Satisfying curiosity, yes; returning, no.

Who is Jenna Jamison?

[Fiannan]

Statement: Viewing pornographic materials (such as magazines, movies, and/or Internet sites) is an acceptable way to express one’s sexuality.

Agree

• Young men: 66.5%
• Young women: 48.7%
• Fathers: 36.6%
• Mothers: 20.4%

Disagree

• Young men: 33.4%
• Young women: 51.3%
• Fathers: 63.4%
• Mothers: 79.6%

During the past 12 months, on how many days did you view pornographic material (such as magazines, movies, and/or Internet sites?

Every day or almost every day

• Young men: 21.3%
• Young women: 1.0%

1 or 2 days a week

• Young men: 27.1%
• Young women: 2.2%

2 or 3 days a month

• Young men: 21.0%
• Young women: 7.1%

Once a month or less

• Young men: 16.8%
• Young women: 20.7%

None

• Young men: 13.9%
• Young women: 69.0%

BYU News - Release

This is one study done by a BYU professor -- I do not know the religious or regional backgrounds of the people researched. While porn use is higher with men, and while frequent consumption is higher with men, women are both accepting of porn as well as using it. Perhaps in the areas Palerider is dealing with if females are using porn occasionally, and only a small number are using it daily, they don't consider it a problem while those males who want to use it every day see it as a problem.

Results of another survey:

In a poll of 1,000 respondents, 50 percent of Christian men and 20 percent of Christian women were found to be addicted to pornography. Conducted by ChristaNet.com, a popular Christian marketplace website, the poll asked visitors about their personal sexual conduct.

Porn Addiction Flooding Culture, Church | Christianpost.com

[the Ogre]

In a poll of 1,000 respondents, 50 percent of Christian men and 20 percent of Christian women were found to be addicted to pornography. Conducted by ChristaNet.com, a popular Christian marketplace website, the poll asked visitors about their personal sexual conduct.

This is very interesting. I think as a whole our society of Mormons is unwilling to admit this is a problem, but as the options are opening and as the taboos the world accepts erode this stat will only increase in both categories. It is hard to think of this as a problem, but it is. I hate to think my daughter could be looking at porn, but both my sons have at school and at friends houses (even on this computer, but my reporting tools let me know what was going on and that is how I found out how extensive the problems were--we spent a lot of time working on it).

It is a subject we as LDSs need to address more often even with the girls.

[checkerboy]

Alright Fiannan and everyone else can we not try to turn this into a pornography debate, please? There are plenty of other threads to do that in.

[the Ogre]

Alright Fiannan and everyone else can we not try to turn this into a pornography debate, please? There are plenty of other threads to do that in.

CB: I don't think people are connecting porn with you, but it's an indication of problems in our society as a whole.

Other posters have shown how it has destroyed their or friend's marriages.

LDS men view porn and obviously it is important to show that women do too (though not as much, certainly). One of my favorite quotes is: "Every tragedy begins with marriage" (Laura Hamblin Ph.D. English Poetry). I don't know if this is necessarily true, but so many of the tragedies in marriage have started over porn, money, WoW violations, LoC violations--we have to be honest about this. It can not be ignored.

[StrawberryFields]

Checker is there any chance of you getting back with the mother of your children?

[checkerboy]

Checker is there any chance of you getting back with the mother of your children?

I have thought that it would be nice. She absolutely refuses to spend anymore time then is necessary with me though. She can barely even look me in the eye. I am sure she has my picture up on a dartboard.

At this point I am sure that only a miracle will change her mind. She has stopped keeping her temple covenants so that would have to change before I would even consider it. But I would consider it just for the boys sake. I am not in love with her though so that would have to change. And she would have to stop hating my guts. Stranger things have happened I know, but at this point I am just hoping to meet someone that will respect me and actually want to be with me.