The drugs debate

[Hemidakota]

Now, don't blame me because your addiction , when I enter into the 'energy drink market’ with my "Turbo Patch".

[skalenfehl]

Redbeard, you asked me for proof of the negative effects of legalizing (or loosening the laws of) drugs. Here are a few references for you. Legalization/decriminalization especially affected the teenagers, which gets to the heart of my complaint--drugs reach our youth.

Mr. Andre-Watson was waiting at a bus stop recently when a pair of teenagers lit up in front of an elderly lady. ''I said, 'Do you know that it's actually still illegal?' '' the pastor recalled. ''And they said, 'Everbody's doing it, and no one's doing anything about it.' ''

He and other residents complained so bitterly about drug dealing that after negative newspaper stories, the police finally sent officers this month to clear the streets.

But how long the stepped-up presence will persist is anybody's guess. When London as a whole relaxes its marijuana policy under the new legislation, people in Brixton are predicting that the open-air dealers will be back, at the busy subway station and up and down Coldharbour Lane.

Indeed, until this week, there were dozens of opportunities to buy pot on a Brixton street crowded with families and stores. Few people were under the illusion that marijuana was the sole product being offered.

Easing of Marijuana Laws Angers Many Britons - New York Times

What these legalization advocates do not talk about are the disturbing problems that people in Lambeth lived with every day. They ignore the sad misery of young people addicted to drugs. They ignore the serious problems that countries such as the Netherlands are experiencing -- problems that are leading them to reconsider their own liberal drug laws.

cannabisnews.com: Drug Legalization Doesn't Work

In 1975, Alaska's Supreme Court held that under their State Constitution an adult could possess marijuana for personal consumption in the home.

The court's ruling became a green light for marijuana use. A 1988 University of Alaska survey showed that the state's teenagers used marijuana at more than twice the national average for their age group. The report also showed a frequency of marijuana use that suggested it wasn't experimental, but a well incorporated practice for teens.

Fed up with this dangerous experiment, Alaska's residents voted in 1990 to recriminalize possession of marijuana. But 15 years of legalization left its mark-increased drug use by a generation of our youth.

Never Mind: Alaska's Failed Legalization Experiment

Other countries struggle with the realities of permissive drug laws:

The Netherlands: A Return to Law Enforcement Solutions

Portugal: Decriminalization of all Illicit Drugs

Zurich, Switzerland: Needle Park

The bottom line is that legalizing and decriminalization did not prove to solve the problem. it only created more/different problems.

[Redbeard]

I am getting so fed up with my internet browser.... Twice now I have written up a big long response and it has crashed both times I hit post... GAHH!!!! you get the short and sweet this time.

Redbeard, you asked me for proof of the negative effects of legalizing (or loosening the laws of) drugs. Here are a few references for you. Legalization/decriminalization especially affected the teenagers, which gets to the heart of my complaint--drugs reach our youth.

Yes they do, they reach the youth now and it is illegal, I am saying that if they were legalized drugs would be regulated and we wouldn't have dealers out on the street trying to push drugs on kids when they could go to a gas station and get it without worrying what the drugs are laced with. Hope that made sense, I'm typing fast...

Other countries struggle with the realities of permissive drug laws:

Grr, stories didn't quote-

1st story- preacher complaining about the lack of enforcement of drug laws, don't see how that proves your point, marijuna sales are still illegal there...

2nd story- It's a reporters opinion, and it was supported by the DEA... Hmmm... the same agency that would be out of purpose if drugs were legalized?! really!?

3rd story- I lived in fairbanks for 4 years. I loved it, but when I got older my elder brothers told me "It sucked living up there, people our age had 3 options, drugs, drinking, or sex." And that story is old, alaska decriminalized marijuana for personal use again in '99. obviously something worked

The Netherlands: A Return to Law Enforcement Solutions

Portugal: Decriminalization of all Illicit Drugs

Zurich, Switzerland: Needle Park

All stories from the DOJ and DEA? These are groups that make financial gain on the fact that drugs stay illegal... these are the same groups that put out the "gateway effect" despite arguments from doctors and sociologists. No thank you.

The bottom line is that legalizing and decriminalization did not prove to solve the problem. it only created more/different problems.

I disagree

As it sits right now, there are only a couple countries in the world where cannabis has been completely legalized. Other countries (including the US) have only legalized (in certain areas) the personal use of the drug.

Speaking of the US, do most of you realize that marijuana wasn't even illegal until the late 1930's? Before that time many people smoked and used cannabis all over the country. And here we are today, still alive and breathing Marijuana was sold in pharmacies as a headache cure!

Anyway, I hope I touched on everything, and if this doesn't work I give up

[skalenfehl]

I am getting so fed up with my internet browser.... Twice now I have written up a big long response and it has crashed both times I hit post... GAHH!!!! you get the short and sweet this time.

Hmm...very interesting.

All stories from the DOJ and DEA? These are groups that make financial gain on the fact that drugs stay illegal...

Forgive my ignorance. DOJ? Please cite your source. Would it make the documented stories less valid?

And that story is old, alaska decriminalized marijuana for personal use again in '99. obviously something worked

When you say personal use, do you mean for medicinal purpose only or as personal consumption in the home as was passed in 1975 and failed? Please cite your source.

[Redbeard]

Hmm...very interesting.

Not so interesting as it is well.... Frustrating beyond all belief

Forgive my ignorance. DOJ? Please cite your source. Would it make the documented stories less valid?

DOJ= Department of Justice

And not so much of actual support for my side, but it's a little more biased than I prefer, You are talking about the section of our goverment that gets patted on the back for prosecuting and imprisoning the majority of drug users. If drugs are legalized then the majority of the people in our prisons were put in there for reasons we would then see as rediculous, therefore slandering the DOJ and DEA. They have investments in keeping drugs illegal. And our government is already pretty good at making up stories without evidence. The DOJ and DEA have been critizised multiple times by different groups for putting out unverified information.

United States Department of Justice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Go down to the Corruption, Dissent, and Criticism section for more info

Drug Enforcement Administration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is all my opinion BTW, but I feel it's pretty well supported... Anyway, just my thoughts.

When you say personal use, do you mean for medicinal purpose only or as personal consumption in the home as was passed in 1975 and failed? Please cite your source.

No no no, I'm sorry, the 1975 ruling is what allows alaskans to have marijuana plants and carry in small amounts without prosecution, I'm sorry, I totally messed up my sources, thank you for bringing that up!

From Places that have decriminalized non-medical marijuana in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"With the 1975 Ravin v. State decision, the Alaska Supreme Court declared the state's anti-drug law unconstitutional with respect to possession of small amounts of marijuana, holding that the right to privacy guaranteed by the Alaska state constitution outweighed the state's interest in banning the drug.[2] Despite a 1990 initiative statute and a 2006 legislative statute contradicting the Ravin decision, Alaska courts continue to follow Ravin, voiding laws which criminalize possession of small amounts of cannabis.[3][4][5] This allows possession of less than 25 plants in your residence or home"

The Seattle Times: Local News: Judge rules against Alaska marijuana law

LOL, you are entirely in the right, If I am going to ask for sources it is only fair that I provide them as well

[wokie]

Wanderer,

I smoked for years. Put it down cold turkey and never picked up another one. However, chewing tobacco.... quiting that was that hardest thing I've ever done. I'm now tobacco free now for years! YOU CAN DO IT!!!!

It's easier to give up the heroin than giving up the cigarettes/tobacco going cold turkey

[Guest Username-Removed]

I have an aquantance that has used Cocaine for years. He also chews tobacco. He found out I quit and told me it was easier to put down cocaine than quit chewing tobacco. He wanted to know how I did it. I tried to help him by telling him what I did with the patch. Believe it or not, the patch really worked for me. I did read a lot of scriptures and really asked for Heavenly Father to help me with it. In three months I was tobacco free. However, for him, he did quit for a while, but I have noticed he is chewing again. So, I think there are other factors when one wants to quit.

[skalenfehl]

Thanks, Redbeard.

It also goes on to say:

The new law makes possession of 4 ounces or more a felony. Possession of 1 to 4 ounces is a misdemeanor punishable by up to a year in jail. The part the court ruled against was that less than 1 ounce would be a misdemeanor punishable by up to 90 days in jail.

So, yes, it is legal only for under an ounce. Furthermore the consequences to the original ruling (legalizing/decriminalizing) were documented:

Norton (Colorado's Lt. Governor Jane Norton) joined the opponents in expressing concern about the impact passing the amendment could have on children.

She pointed what happened in Alaska when small amounts of marijuana was legalized. "What we saw was an increase of at least 50 percent of use among teenagers," said Norton.

"So when society says it's okay for adults there's somehow this repercussion that is a trickle-down with younger people," she said.

cbs4denver.com - Opponents Take Aim At Marijuana Amendment

The Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) has claimed that marijuana decriminalization will lead to increased marijuana use and addiction in the *un-sourced pamphlet entitled "Speaking Out Against Drug Legalization". The pamphlet states in 1979, after 11 states decriminalized private marijuana use, marijuana use among 12th grade students was almost 51 percent and in 1992, when stricter marijuana laws were put in place, the usage rate reduced to 22 percent. The pamphlet also states that when Alaska decriminalized marijuana, the marijuana use rate among youth rose twice as much as the youth usage rates nationwide; even though the law did not apply to anyone under the age of 19, the pamphlet explains this is why Alaska re-criminalized marijuana in 1990. Save Our Society From Drugs (SOS) has also stated that decriminalizing marijuana will increase usage among teenagers, citing an increase in Alaskan youth marijuana usage when marijuana was decriminalized.

Decriminalization of non-medical marijuana in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*While the DEA's claims are un-sourced, they seem to support Norton's analysis that it created greater access to youth and caused a greater addiction among them. I also looked up many more sources. Pro legalization sites have what seem like biased sources to back up their claims and anti legalization sources seem to do the same. It's natural to see this. I suppose I can either take these claims as fact or judge that they have been exaggerated. I can only go back to my experiences as an active part of my community where I have volunteered in a few cities and have seen the effects among youth especially as an adoptive parent and a scout leader.

I won't begrudge anyone who chooses to decide for himself. I will continue to draw the line when it comes to the greater risk to children being exposed and I believe I have provided enough evidence to support my stance that they are at greater risk with legalization/decriminalization. Whether or not it "improves" the drug problem is definitely another issue. We haven't even touched on crystal meth, cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, and the latest big problem--over the counter prescription medicine, which has been making its way into the hands of boys and girls in elementary schools, middle schools and also high schools for some time now. Parents, lock up your meds!

I don't think I can really add any more to this. In closing, I just want to emphasize what I said in another thread:

I personally choose to exercise my Constitutional right to believe our prophet and adhere to the church's official stance on any subject, especially "The Family-A Proclamation to the World."

...God does not compromise the Law of Chasity because some people would rather be unchaste as long as they aren't hurting someone else. God does not compromise the Law of Tithing because there are people who are not willing to sacrifice. I will not compromise my belief that wrong things should be legal, but I will not deny another person's right to believe otherwise and lobby, petition and vote accordingly. I do not actively participate against gay rights movements and rallies, but I simply vote no when the time comes.

...As mentioned previously, people are capable of reason, but I question how far they see reason through, for history is replete of societies that have self destructed or have been destroyed because they did not see reason through to conclusion. We are heading toward that same fate, not only as a country, but as a world. I personally want to do what I can to slow it down as much as possible.

[Redbeard]

To skalenfehl,

Thank you for the fantastic and well thought out debate, it has been one of the best debates I have taken part of on this site!

Just wanted to say that, but I don't think I'll be adding more, I think we have both said all that can be helpfully said!

Anyway, I wish all the debates on this site were as helpful... but hey...

[ruthiechan]

You are supposed to have good overall brain activity on a surface brain scan. This is the bottom/underside surface view of what your brain is supposed to look like.

*

This is what it looks like after 10 years of mostly weekend use (underside surface view) of someone who was 28 years old when this was scanned. Notice the significant difference between the two brains. . .

*

CLICK HERE and you will see more samples of different marijuana users and the effects of other drugs on the brain including the legal ones (eg alcohol). This is why you will never convince me that these drugs are ever a good idea.

Note: These images were downloaded from amenclinics.com and uploaded unto ruthiechan.net to avoid bandwidith stealing. Images belong to amenclinics.com.

Edited June 21, 2008 by ruthiechan