Bible question

[hordak]

I have been reading the Bible lately. The old testament and the new testament at the same time and they seem to be so different the could be ( and kinda are) books for 2 different religions. If they were not printed together they would be as similar as the Torah and Qur'an IMO. So this made me wonder is the God of the old testament the same God of the new?

Is Jesus who atoned for us and taught the beatitudes the same God who hardened pharaohs heart and killed all the first born?

[Justice]

If you study the translation of the Old Testament, you will see that it wasn't God who hardened Pharaoh's heart, but that God allowed his heart to be hardened. It would have been easy for God to change Pharaoh's heart and have him let the Hebrews go. That would have been much easier than to let him harden his heart and perform all those miracles and bring about all those deaths.

It is a great testimony that God will not force a man to change his heart, not even to bring about His own purposes. If you really ponder and pray about it you will come to the conclusion that God allows all men to accept or reject Him, just as He did Pharaoh.

I assure you it is the same God in both testaments. The thing people have the hardest time with is understanding why some things were done. The unknown is always the hardest.

[tubaloth]

Its the same God Speaking to different people! One group were "hard harted" and needed that side of God to be show. The new Testament brought for a Higher Law and relfects this.

[prisonchaplain]

It is essential to take the Bible as a whole. My retort to "New Testament Christians," is two-fold:

1. The New Testament Christians didn't even have the New Testament to work with.

2. I'm a Bible Christian.

The Old Testament demonstrates the fury, the justice, the holiness, and the messianic prophecies of God. The New Testament shows the fulfillment, the sacrifice, the love, and the universal appeal of God. We need both.

[Snow]

I have been reading the Bible lately. The old testament and the new testament at the same time and they seem to be so different the could be ( and kinda are) books for 2 different religions. If they were not printed together they would be as similar as the Torah and Qur'an IMO. So this made me wonder is the God of the old testament the same God of the new?

Is Jesus who atoned for us and taught the beatitudes the same God who hardened pharaohs heart and killed all the first born?

The bible is the history of man's dealings with God - from man's point of view. The men who authored the Old Testament had a particular point of view - for example, they blamed God for their acts of violence, claiming that God instructed them to do all sorts of things - like attack and kill their enemies, kill the women of their enemies if they were not virgins, kidnap the virgins as sex toys, kill or steal their cattle and kidnap and enslave the children.

[hordak]

If you study the translation of the Old Testament, you will see that it wasn't God who hardened Pharaoh's heart, but that God allowed his heart to be hardened. It would have been easy for God to change Pharaoh's heart and have him let the Hebrews go. That would have been much easier than to let him harden his heart and perform all those miracles and bring about all those deaths.

It is a great testimony that God will not force a man to change his heart, not even to bring about His own purposes. If you really ponder and pray about it you will come to the conclusion that God allows all men to accept or reject Him, just as He did Pharaoh.

I assure you it is the same God in both testaments. The thing people have the hardest time with is understanding why some things were done. The unknown is always the hardest.

I don't have a problem understanding why. I was just wondering if the old testament was mans dealings with Heavenly father, then the reigns were passed Jesus in the new?

[Adeipho]

I don't have a problem understanding why. I was just wondering if the old testament was mans dealings with Heavenly father, then the reigns were passed Jesus in the new?

It seems to me that you may feel God the Father is more harsh than Jesus? Just something to keep in mind, the Father is the one who sent His son to suffer and attone for us. Snow has a good point that the OT is more of a history lesson filled with symbols and lessons for us to take from it. And not so amazingly all those lessons and symbols point right at Jesus Christ.

The NT on the other hand is more of a direct angle at instructing us and teaching us the gospel of Jesus Christ first by Himself and then through His chosen apostles.

Christ is the God of the Old Testiment. After all, ALL gospel testiments are of Christ. Even the Book of Mormon is Another Testiment of Jesus Christ.

[hethathathears]

I would say that the God of the Old Testament is indeed the same God as the New. We have a very caring and loving God. One of my favorite books of the Old Testament is the Book of Hosea. That is where Hosea was commanded to marry a girl that the Lord new would cheat on him with other guys. In fact, she had like 3 different children from 3 different fathers. When I asked my newly married son how he would feel if his beloved wife cheated with another man, he said that it would utterly destroy him inside. And that is what the Lord Almighty was trying to tell us through the symbolism of the Old Testament. For hundreds of years the Lord blessed his people. He fed them with manna, for 40 years. He poured out blessing for those who chose righteousness, and curses on those who like a unfaithful wife went chasing after other gods. I would say that 40% of the Old Testament is story or history, while the other 60% is the Lord calling his way ward bride back to repentance. Sadly, they didn't listen, but as a result, the rest of the world got to learn about God. Question is, what do you see, a loving father in Heaven or a vengeful warmonger God wanting to crush us the minute we step over the line.

With the God of the Old Testament walking amongst us, he spent a majority of his time teaching love and mercy that is the core of the gospel. Somewhere alone the line, the scribes and Pharisees hijacked the true gospel of mercy and love and loving the Lord with all of our heart and put in it's place a stringent set of rules and policies that they believed would bring the people closer to being holy. Such rules were that they could only take so many steps on the Sabbath or you had to wash your hands before means or you would defile yourself.

So the first 4 books of the New testament are the Gospels, eye witness accounts of the Savior's life. Then we have acts- or the Acts of the Apostles that transpired after the death of Jesus. Then the next 16 letters were written by Paul, starting from the longest being Romans to the shortest being Philemon. Hebrews is also though of to be written by Paul as it has his fingerprints written all over it, however, we don't know for sure. And the reason for many of these letters was to encourage the various churches to endure until the end, and the other half was to put out the fires that the Judaizers were sturring up around the region. Again, the major part of Paul's work was to love the Lord with all of our heart through faith instead of the empty observance of a bunch of rules that had evolved over the last 500 years. And then Peter and John spoke encouraging words on love and commitment, and again, enduring to the end. Again, there is the fingerprints of a Loving Heavenly Father, but again, which do you see.

[Justice]

Jesus claimed to be the God of the Old Testament, this is why the people of His day tried to kill Him over and over.

Exodus 3:

13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Interestingly enough, I Am is literally translated from Jehova. This is the name Moses took back to the Hebrews who did not know God's name.

Jesus answers a question in the New Testament this way:

John 8:

52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

59 Then took they up stones to cast at him:

The Jews knew exactly what Christ was claiming, to be the God of their fathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, or that He was Jehova. This is why they took up stones to kill Him. If they understood it any other way they would not have tried to stone Him.

[Ankh]

Greetings Justice,

Jesus claimed to be the God of the Old Testament, this is why the people of His day tried to kill Him over and over.

Exodus 3:

13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Interestingly enough, I Am is literally translated from Jehova. This is the name Moses took back to the Hebrews who did not know God's name.

Jesus answers a question in the New Testament this way:

John 8:

52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

59 Then took they up stones to cast at him:

The Jews knew exactly what Christ was claiming, to be the God of their fathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, or that He was Jehova. This is why they took up stones to kill Him. If they understood it any other way they would not have tried to stone Him.

Exactly Justice. Did you notice what Jesus says in verses 54 & 55? Here all along the Jews must have been thinking the GOD of Israel was the Father, but, Christ tells them even though you guys say the Father is your GOD (John 8:41), you have NOT KNOWN HIM. So know wonder they picked up stones to stone him (Jesus) when he said to them, "Before Abraham, was I AM"... claiming to be just THAT, the "God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob"

Know wonder they asked Christ in John 8:25, "Who art thou"

Just my thoughts.

Ankh

[Justice]

Very good observation about why Jesus might have said that. I always understood that He said it because they didn't even know His name, nor did they really obey His voice very often. But, it seems much more clear and in line with what He was trying to teach them when you also understand your comments.

Thank you.

[hordak]

It seems to me that you may feel God the Father is more harsh than Jesus? Just something to keep in mind, the Father is the one who sent His son to suffer and attone for us. Snow has a good point that the OT is more of a history lesson filled with symbols and lessons for us to take from it. And not so amazingly all those lessons and symbols point right at Jesus Christ.

The NT on the other hand is more of a direct angle at instructing us and teaching us the gospel of Jesus Christ first by Himself and then through His chosen apostles.

Christ is the God of the Old Testiment. After all, ALL gospel testiments are of Christ. Even the Book of Mormon is Another Testiment of Jesus Christ.

I believe the old testament is more harsh.. Because I believe the Father and Son to be to different beings i can see them as having to different ways of doing businessmen so to speak.

Kinda like how your earthly father might say "get to your room and finish your homework or your grounded" then your older brother says "you need to pass that class to get into U of M"

They both want the same thing for you but have different ways . With the old and new testament being so different it would make sense to me if they were different. However someone pointed out some verses that show it to be the same.

[Traveler]

There is a difference in the covenant of the Old Testament (Law of Moses) and the covenant of the New Testament (the covenant of peace and mercy). To better understand how covenants play - one leading to Christ and the other the covenant of the mediator Christ - I suggest one read the Book of Mormon which explains the covenants quite well.

The Traveler

[hordak]

There is a difference in the covenant of the Old Testament (Law of Moses) and the covenant of the New Testament (the covenant of peace and mercy). To better understand how covenants play - one leading to Christ and the other the covenant of the mediator Christ - I suggest one read the Book of Mormon which explains the covenants quite well.

The Traveler

Been working on that as well. Just been bogged down in 2nd Nephi. The Isaiah part is slow going.

Though i have read the entire children's version;)