i am trying to learn

[Islander]

I talked with a Catholic preist yesterday. He told me about RCIA classes. Do you know alot about RCIA?

NY - Did you get to meet with the missionaries?

[NewYork1975]

NY - Did you get to meet with the missionaries?

they were really nice, and hungry. They are going to come back next week.

[Islander]

they were really nice, and hungry. They are going to come back next week.

Good deal. Let me know if there are any questions you may have.

A suggestion I have for you. I understand your urgency and diligence in trying to reach God and the truth. Do it systematically and do not rush or overwhelm yourself. Take it slow, read and pray and the Spirit will open your eyes and show you the way.

Look forward to hearing from you about your search. Take care my brother.

[NewYork1975]

Good deal. Let me know if there are any questions you may have.

A suggestion I have for you. I understand your urgency and diligence in trying to reach God and the truth. Do it systematically and do not rush or overwhelm yourself. Take it slow, read and pray and the Spirit will open your eyes and show you the way.

Look forward to hearing from you about your search. Take care my brother.

I will thanks for your advice.

[NewYork1975]

Yes, I know much about RCIA Classes.

I would encourage you to talk to the priest you mention about such classes. Many have found them helpful. As this is an LDS site, my guess is that you, like myself are exploring the LDS faith as well. May our Heavenly Father bless your efforts as you seek truth.

Thanks for everything from eveyone on this site. I have decided to go to RCIA at the Catholic Church. I was really glad for everyone being so nice. Thanks to eveyone.

[Misshalfway]

Thanks for everything from eveyone on this site. I have decided to go to RCIA at the Catholic Church. I was really glad for everyone being so nice. Thanks to eveyone.

Neat! I have never been to something like that. I would love to hear what it is like.

[Islander]

Thanks for everything from eveyone on this site. I have decided to go to RCIA at the Catholic Church. I was really glad for everyone being so nice. Thanks to eveyone.

Keep me posted on how you are doing. I wish you well my brother and be safe.

I hope you find what you are looking for.

[Traveler]

I have been told alot of different things about Mormons.

1-they have more then one wife.

2-they don't like black people

3-when they die they can become Gods

4-They are not considerd Christian by any Christian Church.

I have a friend that I meet here in Ney York that is becoming Mormon and it sounds really good but I have heard things like I listed above that bother me.

There are reasons not to learn about anyone from someone that has bias against them. This best way I can think to make this point is by indicating the foolishness of learning about blacks (and other minorities) from the KKK. Thanks for making the effort to seek out "Mormons" for comment.

If you are from New York city you ought to consider a visit to the Mormon temple down town.

The Traveler

[NewYork1975]

Keep me posted on how you are doing. I wish you well my brother and be safe.

I hope you find what you are looking for.

Hello Islander, I am having the missionaries come back this week. I seem to be drawn to them for some reason. Anyone thanks I will let you know how it goes.

[Islander]

Hello Islander, I am having the missionaries come back this week. I seem to be drawn to them for some reason. Anyone thanks I will let you know how it goes.

I am glad to hear that. In the mean time should you have any questions shoot me a line or a PM if you prefer. Remember, this is an spiritual endevour so you must put time and energy into reading and praying. As you do so, some question will arise and that is what we are here for!!

Good luck and keep us in the loop.

[NewYork1975]

I am glad to hear that. In the mean time should you have any questions shoot me a line or a PM if you prefer. Remember, this is an spiritual endevour so you must put time and energy into reading and praying. As you do so, some question will arise and that is what we are here for!!

Good luck and keep us in the loop.

Thanks man I will.

[NewYork1975]

Where you born LDS?

[FayetteIA]

There is an LDS Temple in Manhatten. I am sure they have a visitors center. It is usually maybe an hour or so tour and there will be many people there who will answer all your questions "up-front-and-personal" They will have several films about the church. It might be worth a ride there. I love the visitors centers of the temples, I go every time I have an opportunity.

Welcome here..we are so glad you joined us. If you are seeking the truth, you will find it..the Lord knows your heart..ask Him to show you where the Truth can be found.

Joni

[NewYork1975]

I am glad to hear that. In the mean time should you have any questions shoot me a line or a PM if you prefer. Remember, this is an spiritual endevour so you must put time and energy into reading and praying. As you do so, some question will arise and that is what we are here for!!

Good luck and keep us in the loop.

Islander thanks for all your help. i have decided to go to RCIA. I have read alot about both churches and I seem to be more drawn towards the Catholic faith. Thanks again

[evangelical]

I have been told alot of different things about Mormons.

1-they have more then one wife.

2-they don't like black people

3-when they die they can become Gods

4-They are not considerd Christian by any Christian Church.

I have a friend that I meet here in Ney York that is becoming Mormon and it sounds really good but I have heard things like I listed above that bother me.

Some Mormons do have more than one wife (just watch the news) but Mormons that are also LDS no longer practice plural marriage. They believe in the idea, at least in the after life, but they no longer practice it here. LDS (who are probably most, or maybe all) of the Mormons here at lds.net do not, I believe, consider polyganist Mormons to be real Mormons. They do not have the true keys of authority, according to LDS theology.

Black people were forbidden from the preisthood until the 1980's. Non-Mormons often take this as racism. The color of their skin was cursed, according to Mormon Scripture, for sins they are said to have commited.

The Mormons do believe that they can potentially become Gods when they die though sometimes they seem reluctant to admit this at first. I believe they see it as an advanced theological truth but an investigator (such as yourself) is, I think, often presumed to be ready for only "milk". The book "Gospel Principles" talks briefly about eternal progression to godhood. That is a Mormon Sunday School book available digitally on lds.org. That is a good book to learn directly from Mormons their basic beliefs. Other Mormon sources to look into on this account are the "King Follett Discourse" and the Lorenzo Snow Couplet. Actually, I can give you that right here. It is short enough (I hope I don't misquote it) "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become." If one is a Mormon and does certain specified things in this life, then in the afterlife you will go to the celestial kingdom and eventually progress to godhood and rule over your own planet. But it is difficult (and impossible?) to know when one has done enough good to make it into celestial kingdom godhood.

The LDS consider themselves to be Christians but all Protestant and Roman Catholic Churches often tend to regard them, it seems, as heretics. This is not a derogatory label but a descriptive one. In other words, LDS people deny the cardinal truths Christians have always believed. These cardinal doctrines where ironed out by intelligent church theologians during the first 4 ecumenical councils. One such important doctrine, in the eyes of the non-Mormon, is the doctrine, of the Trinity. These councils took place during the time which Mormons regard as "The Great Apostasy." They have the doctrine that from about the close of the New Testament times (say 100 AD) until the 1800s, the true church had fallen off the face of the planet. In any case, the idea of the Great Apostasy is that there where no apostles on the Earth to interpret the Bible correctly and authoritatively for the church. That is, until Joseph Smith became a modern day prophet and apostle, according to the Mormons.

When he was a teenager he prayed about which church to join and God is said to have told him not to join any of them for they were all an abomination to Him. Then he received some gold plates which he is said to have translated using the urim and thumim. The result was the Book of Mormon. Mormons want investigators to pray about the Book of Mormon to find out if it is true. They'll even quote from the Bible where James wrote, "if any of you lack wisdom, pray to God." While I persnally believe in the Bible whole-heartedly, it is my own conviction, as a non-Mormon, that prayer is usually a very poor test for truth. I am an armchair epistemologist, too, by the way. God can certainly give us wisdom in answer to prayer. But truth can never contradict truth. I accept the Bible as truth (Mormons do too, "insofar as it is correctly translated"). I cannot reconcile the Bible as I understand it with other Mormon Scripture. Of course, the Mormons can and do. What would you decide if you compared the Bible with, say, the Book of Mormon. I cannot say before hand. But I would encourage you, if you continue to investigage LDS or some other Mormon sect to compare what you are hearing there to the Bible. Remember, truth cannot contradict truth. If the Bible is true, and it contradicts certain Mormon teaching (this is a big if) than those Mormon teachings cannot be true. Please also remember that it is a basic rule of interpreting anything, even the Bible, to pay close attention to context. One can make the Bible, or anything else, say anything they want it to, by interpreting verses out of context. It doesn't hurt, in my opinion, to check the older (hence more easily misunderstood) KJV translation of the Bible against a newer (hence somewhat more difficult to misundertand) Bible translation. Perhaps the TNIV, or Today's New International Version, would be helpful here. It is available for free, while you remain online, at biblegateway.com The KJV is also available there. lds.org even has a downloadable, free, KJV Bible (and their other Scriptures-the uniquely Mormon ones) for your iPOD!

[mnn727]

Evangelical, you are skirting the truth with your post, the best I can say is some of what you post is not 100% accurrate even though its not 100% wrong.

This section of the board is for people to learn about the LDS Church. I recommend they learn it from the LDS people themselves, who better to know what we actually believe?

[rameumptom]

Some Mormons do have more than one wife (just watch the news) but Mormons that are also LDS no longer practice plural marriage. They believe in the idea, at least in the after life, but they no longer practice it here. LDS (who are probably most, or maybe all) of the Mormons here at lds.net do not, I believe, consider polyganist Mormons to be real Mormons. They do not have the true keys of authority, according to LDS theology.

Rameumptom: LDS Mormons do not have more than one wife. We believe polygamy can only be implemented if commanded by God via his prophet. The book of Jacob (in the Book of Mormon) states that the norm is monogamy. How it is practiced in heaven is anyone's guess, and my guess is that most will only have a single spouse.

Black people were forbidden from the preisthood until the 1980's. Non-Mormons often take this as racism. The color of their skin was cursed, according to Mormon Scripture, for sins they are said to have commited.

Rameumptom: Black people were banned from the priesthood until 1978. According to some readings of the scriptures by early leaders, and based upon common American Christian views, blacks had been a fallen and cursed people since Ham's grandson, Canaan. In 1978 this ban was lifted as modern prophets considered the source of the ban, and received a revelation from God lifting it. A closer look at the actual text does not mention a skin curse in scripture on anyone. People are cursed of God for their own sins.

The Mormons do believe that they can potentially become Gods when they die though sometimes they seem reluctant to admit this at first. I believe they see it as an advanced theological truth but an investigator (such as yourself) is, I think, often presumed to be ready for only "milk". The book "Gospel Principles" talks briefly about eternal progression to godhood. That is a Mormon Sunday School book available digitally on lds.org. That is a good book to learn directly from Mormons their basic beliefs. Other Mormon sources to look into on this account are the "King Follett Discourse" and the Lorenzo Snow Couplet. Actually, I can give you that right here. It is short enough (I hope I don't misquote it) "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become." If one is a Mormon and does certain specified things in this life, then in the afterlife you will go to the celestial kingdom and eventually progress to godhood and rule over your own planet. But it is difficult (and impossible?) to know when one has done enough good to make it into celestial kingdom godhood.

Rameumptom: It is our belief that we can become gods. The problem is what it means to be a god, as we do not view it in the sense that many traditional Christians would. Paul stated that we are "heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ", Jesus quoted the Psalmist "ye are gods", and John the Revelator explained it well when he said that Jesus has made us "kings and priests unto God and His Father" (Rev 1:5-6). We believe that all it means is that we will receive the fullness of God's blessings, and will reign over some of His creations under Him.

The King Follett Discourse and Snow couplet are NOT LDS doctrine, though they are LDS teachings. There is not enough revealed by God to know what they really mean to us. And different LDS scholars view them in extremely different ways (I refer you to volume 2 of Blake Ostler's books on Exploring Mormon Thought).

We believe in a near universal salvation of mankind. God has provided several levels of heaven for his children. Paul mentions three (2 Corinthians 12:1-4). Those who rely on the grace and merits of Christ, and seek him diligently with their heart and soul, will obtain the highest level and the fullness of God's blessings therein. Those who believe, but are not as faithful in seeking Christ in their lives will be blessed for their level of faith and works.

The LDS consider themselves to be Christians but all Protestant and Roman Catholic Churches often tend to regard them, it seems, as heretics. This is not a derogatory label but a descriptive one. In other words, LDS people deny the cardinal truths Christians have always believed. These cardinal doctrines where ironed out by intelligent church theologians during the first 4 ecumenical councils. One such important doctrine, in the eyes of the non-Mormon, is the doctrine, of the Trinity. These councils took place during the time which Mormons regard as "The Great Apostasy." They have the doctrine that from about the close of the New Testament times (say 100 AD) until the 1800s, the true church had fallen off the face of the planet. In any case, the idea of the Great Apostasy is that there where no apostles on the Earth to interpret the Bible correctly and authoritatively for the church. That is, until Joseph Smith became a modern day prophet and apostle, according to the Mormons.

Rameumptom: Not "all" traditional Christians believe we are non-Christian, though all agree we are not traditional Christians. The reality is, the Catholic Church views Protestants as heretics insofar as they do not embrace the recent Catholic statement that the only true churches are the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox!

Christians have not "always believed" the traditional cardinal truths. The concept of the Trinity was not actively taught in the Christian church until the 2nd century AD. And even after the Nicene Council established it, it still almost fell out of favor to Arianism.

We believe that many plain and precious truths were lost as early Christians rejected authority and revelation through prophets and apostles (Ephesians 4:11-14). Professor Bart Ehrman has written many books on how the early proto-orthodox Church rejected continuing revelation and chose a static Bible in order to stop the various sects from gaining strength. Books that were long accepted as scripture were rejected by St Jerome in his compilation of the New Testament. For example, the Book of Enoch was quoted 39 times in the New Testament (see Jude for instance), but rejected by St Jerome because he did not like some of the teachings in it. Clearly, the apostles liked it, even if Jerome didn't. Who should we trust more, apostles like Jude, or a priest who rejected continuing revelation?

While many good things remained in the Christian Church, many things were missing or lost or changed. New teachings such as baptizing babies, indulgences, worshiping saints, arguments over what God is/isn't, arguments over faith and works, arguments over whether baptism was necessary, arguments over whether the Holy Ghost still gives gifts of the Spirit, divinization of mankind, etc. In fact, many of these are still argued over within traditional Christianity - a proof that such cannot be determined by logic and reading the Bible alone.

These key beliefs and more that were lost needed restoring. Many teachings of Joseph Smith have since been found to have been believed and practiced by early groups of Jews and Christians, including baptism for the dead, importance of priesthood authority, importance of continuing revelation (Justin Martyr told the Jew Trypho that without revelation the Christian Church would be as dead as the Jewish faith), temples, levels of heaven, pre-mortal existence, man's true relation to God, etc.

When he was a teenager he prayed about which church to join and God is said to have told him not to join any of them for they were all an abomination to Him.

Rameumptom: Actually, he was told the creeds were an abomination. Major difference.

Then he received some gold plates which he is said to have translated using the urim and thumim. The result was the Book of Mormon. Mormons want investigators to pray about the Book of Mormon to find out if it is true. They'll even quote from the Bible where James wrote, "if any of you lack wisdom, pray to God." While I persnally believe in the Bible whole-heartedly, it is my own conviction, as a non-Mormon, that prayer is usually a very poor test for truth. I am an armchair epistemologist, too, by the way. God can certainly give us wisdom in answer to prayer. But truth can never contradict truth. I accept the Bible as truth (Mormons do too, "insofar as it is correctly translated"). I cannot reconcile the Bible as I understand it with other Mormon Scripture.

Rameumptom: This, of course, suggests you have actually studied LDS scripture and not just given it a cursory glance or two. You base your belief on creeds, which are based upon the logic of man. I base my belief on modern revelation, which has been shown time and again to be found to agree with ancient teachings and thought. We encourage all to receive their own revelation regarding both the Bible and Book of Mormon (John 1:5-6, Moroni 3:3-5), while you would reject such a standard and encourage someone to logically accept things without direct guidance from God. No wonder there is so much confusion in the world today regarding "truth"!

Of course, the Mormons can and do. What would you decide if you compared the Bible with, say, the Book of Mormon. I cannot say before hand. But I would encourage you, if you continue to investigage LDS or some other Mormon sect to compare what you are hearing there to the Bible. Remember, truth cannot contradict truth. If the Bible is true, and it contradicts certain Mormon teaching (this is a big if) than those Mormon teachings cannot be true. Please also remember that it is a basic rule of interpreting anything, even the Bible, to pay close attention to context. One can make the Bible, or anything else, say anything they want it to, by interpreting verses out of context. It doesn't hurt, in my opinion, to check the older (hence more easily misunderstood) KJV translation of the Bible against a newer (hence somewhat more difficult to misundertand) Bible translation. Perhaps the TNIV, or Today's New International Version, would be helpful here. It is available for free, while you remain online, at biblegateway.com The KJV is also available there. lds.org even has a downloadable, free, KJV Bible (and their other Scriptures-the uniquely Mormon ones) for your iPOD!

Rameumptom: And make sure you determine if the Bible is 100% true or 98% true, as that can make a difference on how one understands the Bible. The Bible states that Judas Iscariot hung himself, but also states he jumped off a cliff and dashed his bowels out. Which is true?

The Bible states that Paul saw and heard Jesus while the others with him either saw the light and didn't hear anything; or heard the voice but didn't see any light. Which is true?

Anyone who has actually studied the history of the Bible, MUST come to the logical conclusion that while inspired, it is not 100% accurate nor "God-breathed". And anyone studying it well would realize it is missing many books, a dozen mentioned within the Bible itself (such as the Book of Enoch stated above).

To understand the Bible well requires having the Spirit of revelation to guide us, as Peter mentioned concerning Paul's writings. Peter said that they are of worth, but many wrest them to their own destruction, because they do not follow the spirit of prophecy and revelation, as did the ancient prophets who wrote them in the first place!

Even the angel told the apostle John, "worship Jesus, for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy" (Revelation 19:10). Yet, if Christians reject modern revelation, then how can they have a testimony of Jesus? I believe that some traditional Christians, such as Prison Chaplain, will state that individual revelation does continue, but not on an apostolic level as it did anciently. However, some traditional Christians, such as the Church of Christ, fully reject any gifts of the Spirit today. Yet all of this from the same Bible, which Evangelical would suggest answers all questions!

No wonder the Bible continually tells us of the importance of prophets and apostles throughout (Amos 3:7, Ephesians 2:19, etc). And this is the key reason for a Restoration of those things lost anciently.

[evangelical]

Dear rameumpton,

your last post in this thread was quite long so, in the interest of time, I am not going to respond to each point here. But I would like to make an observation. It seems to be a standard practice of Mormons to downplay certain of their doctrines and/or bend the truth to sound more acceptable to potential converts. This is my own impression of what seems to be objective fact. As a congregant of Satan's church, someone as unenlightened as myself (opposed to you, as a member of God's one true church) cannot be expected to eat spiritual meat, can I? Surely you can only give me milk. So when somebody like me asks about eternal progression to godhood, for example, perhaps it is best, don't you think, to be less than totally forthcomming? In spite of what you said in your above post, you know as well as I that Lorenzo Snow, and other Mormons, have plainly said that the God of this planet was once a man, and we, as men, may become like Him, only ruling over a different planet instead of Earth. Can't you appreciate how it looks to outsiders such as myself, that Mormons apparently lie (from our point of view) to potential converts? Often it is only after they are deeply entrenched in the local ward (through 'freindshipping'?), it seems to us, that they are told the real story.

[HiJolly]

Dear rameumpton,

your last post in this thread was quite long so, in the interest of time, I am not going to respond to each point here. But I would like to make an observation. It seems to be a standard practice of Mormons to downplay certain of their doctrines and/or bend the truth to sound more acceptable to potential converts.

I'd like an example of "bend" rather than "downplay". I'm not saying we don't downplay certain things, but "bend" is not very kind on your part. So, please demonstrate.

This is my own impression of what seems to be objective fact.

Good point. Glad you're qualifying it - many evangelicals can't seem to.

As a congregant of Satan's church, someone as unenlightened as myself (opposed to you, as a member of God's one true church) cannot be expected to eat spiritual meat, can I? Surely you can only give me milk.

Guess this shows that you are bitter, offended and very sarcastic. Yech. Sorry you are so caught up in your mind and emotions. Perhaps a good place for you to train your mind so you can understand our view without acrimony would be philosophy. It always helps if you can geniunely understand the other person's point of view, and accept it as non-threatening and sincere, before getting into the discussion of the issues.

So when somebody like me asks about eternal progression to godhood, for example, perhaps it is best, don't you think, to be less than totally forthcomming?

It depends on the person. In your case, I doubt anything would help.

In spite of what you said in your above post, you know as well as I that Lorenzo Snow, and other Mormons, have plainly said that the God of this planet was once a man, and we, as men, may become like Him, only ruling over a different planet instead of Earth.

But that's CLEARLY not true, to anyone who has honestly learned personally about this doctrine/belief. Should I say you are a liar? Would that help, or hurt, our discussion? This paragraph above is proof postiive that you are not sincere, since it is taken from anti-Mormon sources, and not your own thoughts. You left us proof in your very words. That's not nice. PLEASE KNOW that your paragraph above is NOT TRUE. Words have meaning.

Can't you appreciate how it looks to outsiders such as myself, that Mormons apparently lie (from our point of view) to potential converts?

Sure, but I can also see that it's not because of what we're saying, but because of the lies that other have spoken to you (that you believe, God knows why), over our own words and teachings. Bad on you! You have been deceived, by the very people you are trusting to learn about the 'bad' Mormons.

Often it is only after they are deeply entrenched in the local ward (through 'freindshipping'?), it seems to us, that they are told the real story.

Who's the "we"? Got a mouse in your pocket? That's just what you've been told. You bought it. Bad idea. "entrenched"? Can you load your comments with biased negative emotions any more?

IF you can be sincere, maybe we could help you understand. A little Biblical advice: You should try being as a little child, willing to learn; willing to accept. If your own personal life's experience teaches you, go with that, after all, it is THE BIBLICAL WAY. So far your life's experience seems to be that the people you have trusted to learn about Mormons have been deceiving you. I hope you can learn enough to figure that out for yourself.

HiJolly

[rameumptom]

Evangelical,

First off, I never claimed you are of "Satan's Church" and would appreciate you not implying such things from me. That is a red herring, meant to stir the pot without adding anything but ad hominem attacks pointing at me. I do not appreciate that.

I gave a series of answers and responses to your post, and you were the one who chose to "downplay" them by not answering any of them. For me, that has become a very typical response from those not seeking a dialogue, but only seeking to attack. And this site is not a place for people to attack, so I suggest you either respond in kind, or go off to CARM or some other place that will make you feel much better about us Mormons who downplay things.

While I know very well about Lorenzo Snow's couplet, etc., I also realize there is a difference between doctrine and teachings from church leaders that often included speculation.

The Official LDS stance can be found in the LDS Newsroom under Approaching Mormon Doctrine.

Here's basically what it states:

* Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted.

* Some doctrines are more important than others and might be considered core doctrines. For example, the precise location of the Garden of Eden is far less important than doctrine about Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice. The mistake that public commentators often make is taking an obscure teaching that is peripheral to the Church’s purpose and placing it at the very center. This is especially common among reporters or researchers who rely on how other Christians interpret Latter-day Saint doctrine.

Pres Hinckley was interviewed about a decade ago in which he was asked about man becoming gods. He stated that Joseph Smith had talked about it, but not in much detail, and so we really do not know much regarding it. And Pres Hinckley was right. What we know about man becoming gods comes from scripture, just as I laid out above. Anything more, such as from Lorenzo Snow, is speculation.

And just as with the apostle Paul, we give milk before we give meat. We do not deny our teachings and doctrines. Not all of it is actively taught by the missionaries or in our Sunday Schools, where we have so many converts that we need to focus on their needs for salvation and not speculations or history. But we do not hide them very well, if you are insinuating that we lie to them. Many books have been available for decades, such as the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, which discuss the King Follett sermon, etc. That is where I got my information, and I've had my copy for almost 30 years - long before the Internet, which makes it much easier to find and read.

[rameumptom]

By the way, did you know that many traditional Christian churches also believe in divinization of mankind? It isn't a secret, as you can read it time and again from the early Church Fathers. The Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholic churches believe in it, though slightly different than how LDS view it. Still, they believe that mankind can become as God.

Why, even the bible states this, as I showed above. Why is this such a distasteful thing to you?

Is it so terrible that the KJV tells us that Christ has made us "kings and priests unto God, and HIS Father"? (Rev 1:5-6). Let's see, that is Jesus, God the Father, and God the Father's father! All there in black and white in the most accepted version of the Bible in English on earth. And if you believe the Bible to be God breathed, then you have to accept that verse as it is written and translated.

[Islander]

Some people are simply confused by the facts. They already made up their minds.

It is simply fascinating how much time and energy is spent in contending, opposing and arguing against something they do not believe in. My neighbor is into alien visitation and related conspiracies, whole hearted. I personally believe it borders on the delusional, but I will never spend 5 minutes of my time either listening or arguing with him my belief that such is a fallacy and that he needs psychiatric care.

We should have a FAQ section with a number of selected threads on those subjects as to save some time and redirect them there rather than having to answer the same questions again and again. Of course it would also limit the opportunity of the "pretenders" to poison the spirit of the forum with their exhausted and aged-comatose arguments.

[rameumptom]

A FAQ section is already available at fairwiki.org

No need to reinvent the wheel, as you can refer them to some awesome articles and info already available online.

[Hemidakota]

Livin in New York city I have not run into alot of Mormons. But they seem nice. I asked the question about blacks because I am black. I am tryng to find more of a purpose to my life. Growing up in a gang does not really give me that. But that is the past and I am tryin to turn it around now. Thanks again for taking time to answer my questions.

Welcome to the forum brother.

[NewYork1975]

Dear rameumpton,

your last post in this thread was quite long so, in the interest of time, I am not going to respond to each point here. But I would like to make an observation. It seems to be a standard practice of Mormons to downplay certain of their doctrines and/or bend the truth to sound more acceptable to potential converts. This is my own impression of what seems to be objective fact. As a congregant of Satan's church, someone as unenlightened as myself (opposed to you, as a member of God's one true church) cannot be expected to eat spiritual meat, can I? Surely you can only give me milk. So when somebody like me asks about eternal progression to godhood, for example, perhaps it is best, don't you think, to be less than totally forthcomming? In spite of what you said in your above post, you know as well as I that Lorenzo Snow, and other Mormons, have plainly said that the God of this planet was once a man, and we, as men, may become like Him, only ruling over a different planet instead of Earth. Can't you appreciate how it looks to outsiders such as myself, that Mormons apparently lie (from our point of view) to potential converts? Often it is only after they are deeply entrenched in the local ward (through 'freindshipping'?), it seems to us, that they are told the real story.

Evangelical I was looking for answers from LDS folks not some Anti-Mormon. I think you need to spend your time somewhere else man. peace