BoM evidence?

[Misshalfway]

Yep, if the book is of God then the only wittness I will need is his own.

I took up the challenge to pray and ask, i did with so much sincerity I almost exploded. I approached God so many times in prayer throughout all my years of activity but it never came. For years I thought it was me possibly being unworthy or something. I just don't know. I have mentioned elsewhere that I even took it upon myself to attend BoM class's run in our Ward. I have taught Gospel Doctrine to the adults from it, taught our young men and women for years and nothing.

Then I look at all the times I have prayed, individually, as a family group and in my various church callings and assignments for specific reasons, some for advice, some more serious in nature and some just trivial and wonder why I have never felt anything.

Sitting in fast and testimony times and time again watching people sobbing their hearts out becasue of the amazing spiritual experiences they have had, the overwhelming anwsers to prayers etc. Very tough.

Sorry, not sure where im going with this, Just wanted to say I tried and the answer never came.

I know what you are talking about. I know a little of asking with so much sincerity and wondering why the answer I thought I would get never came. I don't have all the answers. But I just wanted to say that I understand, at least, that experience. I think that the Lord has been teaching me something about faith. He has been leading me.....expanding me even. Most of the time, I hold on with just as much determination in my faith. I say in my heart that I will continue with this gospel until He absolutely tells me it is wrong! Sometimes, I have done so just because the scriptures said to and nothing else in my life was there to help. I have had no choice but to rely on the promise. And sometimes my faith has failed llike air out of a balloon. Like I tried and the promise wasn't met and I went away in disappointment.

And you know, the answers have been coming. Quiet whispers here and there. Like little puzzle pieces kind of gently coming together for me. Very rarely in my life has the Spirit been anything more than quietness. Like a friend that sits by my side with a "yes" here and " keep moving" there. More than anything Mike, I am learning to trust God as my perfect Father who will give me the answers in His own way and in His own time. It is for me to stay true and wait on the Lord. And even though he has made me wait on some things, he hasn't left me comfortless. Thru all my doubts and fears about this gospel and church, Father has walked with me. This is kinda silly, but I often think of a quote from the disney movie "Finding Nemo". "Just keep swimming....just keep swimming....." I spose in the end, even though I have argued and pouted and shouted, I find myself doing just that.

Best Wishes, Mike from the UK.

misshalfway

Edited July 6, 2008 by Misshalfway

[prisonchaplain]

Well, the same can be said about David or Solomon. Even though Israel is a very small place and there is a very coherent record for the last 5,000 years, extant evidence of outside of Israel is practically non-existent.

Other than the copies of copies of copies, no original text exist, not one single artifact can be traced to the Apostles and Christianity has florished. Jesus walked in Judea for 3 years and performed miracles seen by hundreds but there is no extra biblical evidence of it.

I doubt anyone would coin the bible "just a book with inspirational value" as well because of the lack of evidence.

As I understand it, the difference between the BoM and the bible, in terms of archealogical evidence, is that there are finds that hint at various stories throughout the Bible.

For example, -- Beliefnet.com , a recent find seems to prove that James, the brother of Jesus, existed.

I could dig around for others. What I would produce, I imagine, is enough to cause the faithful to say, "You see?" and the skeptical to say, "Not enough."

When it comes to the BoM, I'm led to believe that there is very little direct evidence of the civilizations and episodes. Some books have tied together details that might vaguely hint at possiblities, but little if anything is concrete.

Both books require faith to trust, but just maybe the mustard seed has to be a little larger for yours.

[kona0197]

There is archaeological evidence for the BofM. They found the city of Nahum that is spoken of in 1st and 2nd Nephi.

[prisonchaplain]

Thing is, many accept the LDS Church, thinking they have not yet received a witness, when perhaps they have. I knew a guy many years ago that wanted to be a farmer, but chose to be a lawyer, because he knew the Lord needed him as a lawyer. Yet, this same guy believed he never had had a spiritual dialogue with God before. I asked him, "How then do you know you are supposed to be a lawyer?" He didn't understand why, he "just knew." And that's many times how a testimony begins. I've heard countless converts who have heard concepts they struggled with in their own Churches (baptizing babies, God as nebulous spirit vs God as exalted man, levels of heaven, continuing revelation, etc.), but immediately recognized the truth of these things when first listening to the elders.

Not everyone starts off with a First vision. Lorenzo Snow joined without having a surety, and it was a year or so after his baptism that he strongly received a witness that tingled his body from head to toe. He later became prophet. Imagine if he would have stopped trying, simply because he had not had that strong witness as of yet?

If I am hearing right, our natural desire to believe:

1. Hell is very small, and may not be eternal

2. Everyone will have a fair chance to hear the gospel

3. There are levels of rewards in God's kingdom, based on grace and merit

4. Families can be forever

5. God the Father can be seen and felt

6. God has created us to follow in his nature and progression

7. It would be great if God continued to send us prophets and immediate revelation

etc....that these intuitive opinions of ours might be the equivalent of the burning in the bossom?

[Misshalfway]

I was reading the BofM today. Alma 17. Reading about Alma as he, in a chance meeting on the road, sees his old friends, the Sons of Mosiah. I was reading about his joy at seeing that they were still in the Lord. Reading about their lives and their choices since their conversion.

No one was more determined to destroy the church at one point. And here they are turning the same determination to preaching the word to the Lamanites; a group who most thought should be killed and wiped off the planet.

I was reading about their hours of study, prayer and fasting. And the spiritual returns that came from such investment. I was in awe at their dedication and vision as they took no thought for their own lives and selfish desires, but went forth only concerned with bringing people to Christ.

Would knowing the exact city where they met on that road change the Spirit I felt today? Would seeing the structures in Central America prove to me that Alma felt the way he did and the feelings that came to my heart in terms of desire for more of this kind of joy and dedication to come into my life?

I doubt it. There is power in the Book!! Power to penetrate the heart. I know it. I had penetrated mine.

[Brother-K]

What evidence or record of this event or other Book of Mormon events can we find outside of the Book of Mormon itself?

Talk about the movie " Journey of Faith" - it's awesome movie with lots of evidence of BoM !Here is on youtube a peace of the movie:

This is a clip from the video "Journey of Faith". Filmed on location in the Middle East, Journey of Faith chronicles the courage and faith of Lehi's family with the eye of the camera and the insights of scholars from a broad range of expertise. The film shows the land of Nahom, where Ishmael was buried, and the most likely location for Bountiful, where Nephi built his Ship. Insightful and inspiring, Journey of Faith shows how God molded Lehi's family in the wilderness to become a new people of God.

[skalenfehl]

More...

Our Film Clips

[kona0197]

Journey of Faith is the movie I was talking about when I mentioned Nahom.

[skalenfehl]

Journey of Faith is the movie I was talking about when I mentioned Nahom.

It's interesting to note that the place was already called "Nahom" before Nephi's family arrived as discussed in the video and written by Nephi. It was not a place that they named, like the Valley of Lemuel or the River of Laman, but rather a place that they were already familiar with.

Edited July 7, 2008 by skalenfehl

[kona0197]

Thanks. I have the whole movie here at home.

[skalenfehl]

That's awesome! I'll have to look it up. I'd love to start building a library.

[kona0197]

I have a good library going here. I just don't watch them very often as I should. Sigh...

[RadioactiveWolfboy]

What about the belief in Quetzlcoatl? The fact that the Aztecs were waiting for 'a Great White God?' to return as he had promised and mistook Cortez and others for him?

I'm not sure if the Mayan/Aztec/Olmec languages have been cracked? I don't think so, so how could we tell anyway? Maybe all of their writings we have discovered mention nothing but Christ?

I know Native Americans of which I am descended talk of the Great White God as well.

Rich