Why do so few care?

[bytor2112]

Why does it seem like so few people care or seem interested or excited to find out the the Gospel has been restored? Are there to many competing voices? Has "main stream" Christianity made it too easy to be saved? Is this doctrine just to appealing?

I have often wondered why it is some feel the Spirit so strongly and others while hearing the same message don't or won't? Tuned into the wrong frequency I guess. We are a very small minority.... really makes me sad sometimes.

[siouxz72]

I think that people in this world are just to selfish to care... This gospel requires a lot of it's members and most people don't want hard. They want the easy way out (or the easy way to be saved).

[utcowboy]

I agree with siouxz72, most people are looking for whatever is easiest. They don't like to be told that they have to do things a certain way. Unfortunately the pathway home is narrow and we need all the guidance and help we can get.

[MrNirom]

The nature of man is the least path of resistance.

Most believe all it takes to make it to heaven is saying your are saved. And for some..maybe.. going to Church for an hour a week.

My wife who is getting Baptized tomorrow was one of these Christians. She went to church every Sunday.. and went to a church that has a Starbucks built into it. 1 hour a week for 10 years. No scripture study.. she didn't even pray regularly. Never read her scriptures. But she was baptized and felt she was saved. She told me.. all I wanted was my little corner in heaven.

Many of her Christian friends don't even attend Church but still feel they are saved and will go to heaven. I think they preach a lot of Paul. Ye are saved not by works.

It is what we call a false sense of security.

[bytor2112]

My office assistant met with the missionaries for over a year. If you gave her a test on what the church believes she would make a 100%. She just didn't get it. "Why don't other churches have a Book like the Mormons....duh!!" I watched her change. She stopped swearing, stopped drinking alcohol, her health improved, she got a blessing and wept, her financial situation improved. Sometimes the Spirit was so strong during the discussions (held weekly in my office) that it would bring tears to my eyes. She was oblivious. She no longer works for me and she has returned to her former self and has all the same issues again. Sad really, but she doesn't see it.

Um, Starbucks at church... very envogue and convenient. Just need a Morrisons and your set for the day.

Congrats to your wife!!! Very exciting.:)

[siouxz72]

What's a Morrisons?

[Islander]

In the West we have grown fat and apathetic about just everything. We keep seeking and coming out with more bizarre, morbid and brazen games and entertainment. We do not fear anything, we feel not dependent on anything (certainly not God) and we are apparently ale to carry out our sorry lives with no help from deity, or so we thing.

We are not aware of all the enemies we have. The billions that hate us with a passion that conumes their souls. The ones that are willing to die themselves as long as they can kill a few of us in the process. The wants that hate everything we are and all we stand for. Those that pray every day that the hand of (their) god would sweep us fromt eh faith of the earth.

Wealth and prosperity will be our downfall. This land will be overrun as promised in the scriptures because our unbelief and stiffneckedness (I just made that up) of our people. A very sad tale.

That is why the church will grow outside of the US. The simple the humble, the meek of the earth have a soft and willing heart and the blessings will go to them. They may remember the long captivity of their fathers under communism and savage regimes. As long as they retain that memory they will prosper and flourish the work of the Lord.

[bytor2112]

Islander.. very passionate and sadly, very true. But still, I have met with some very sincere seakers of truth and they just don't get it. Don't feel the Spirit. I wonder why? How can you not recognize the Spirit?

Morrisons.... a cafeteria- good Southern style food.

[skalenfehl]

This doesn't only apply to faith. People don't generally care enough about their community to serve, find out what's going on in current events, become educated, etc. We as a society are degenerating into a nanny state. We want instant gratification and also to be taken care of. We're not as industrious anymore and many are feeling the squeeze by a poor economy. We are generally lazy and cheap. We don't have much of a chance to shine as a country. And we pass this on to our children. Essentially we find ourselves wondering "why should I care?" or "why should I bother? It's not worth the effort." A few more generations and we will surely need rescuing from ourselves because if life is too hard, we tend to question if there even is a God who cares. I see it every day from others.

[bytor2112]

Never fear..... * is near and hope and change is on the way!:mad: Nanny state is about to expand and I hope we don't change so much that we can't find our way back.

The missionaries really struggle and the members struggle to help them. They are competing with the media circus(CBN and Trinity ) and Mega churches promising riches and blessings if you send money. They look Spirit filled........it is a fallen sphere indeed.

Edited July 4, 2008 by skalenfehl
Rule 7

[Flyonthewall]

Most likely, you would have to convince others that the gospel needed to be restored.

Mainstream Christianity, from what I understand, believes that the gospel, in it's entirety, is contained in the Bible, so there is no need to restore it, because we have always had the Bible.

Catholics, specifically, believe they have had direct succession from Christ, so the gospel was never lost/apostacy nevery happened.

[bytor2112]

We don't convince or convert.... the Spirit does, right? Why do so few seem to recognize the Spirit or feel it? Even the ones eager to know the truth?

[Islander]

Never fear..... * is near and hope and change is on the way!:mad: Nanny state is about to expand and I hope we don't change so much that we can't find our way back.

The missionaries really struggle and the members struggle to help them. They are competing with the media circus(CBN and Trinity ) and Mega churches promising riches and blessings if you send money. They look Spirit filled........it is a fallen sphere indeed.

I totally agree with you. Some time ago I had a few words with a pastor and thought, while he was chatting non-stop about how God wanted me to be rich, that a lightening strike right then and there would have been well deserved. I went home and repented of my thoughts. I kept looking and 2 years later I found the church.

I find it disgusting and offensive for someone to preach the gospel as a mean of achieving material prosperity. The apostles walked away from prosperity to endure a life of hardship and privation for the sake of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, paying with their lives for the privilege of discipleship.

I should drop it. I can feel my blood pressure beginning to inch up

Edited July 4, 2008 by skalenfehl

[bytor2112]

"...... and they rob the poor for their fine sanctuaries."

[Flyonthewall]

I can only guess...and my guesses would be along the lines of: pre-concieved notions, doesn't line up with what they already beleive, don't recognize the spirit, peer pressure, family pressure, too hard to follow, etc., etc.

Edited to add: perhaps not ready to receive/recognize the spirit yet(have not been prepared)

Perhaps someone on the board that does not accept LDS teachings could clarify things?

Edited July 4, 2008 by Flyonthewall

[siouxz72]

you know.. I think flyonthewall's got it right... they just might not recognize the spirit. so even the eager one's don't see what's right in front of them

[MsMagnolia]

This thread reminds me so much of 2 Timothy 3

1 This know also, that in the alast days perilous btimes shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, acovetous, boasters, bproud, blasphemers, cdisobedient to parents, dunthankful, unholy,

3 Without anatural baffection, ctrucebreakers, dfalse accusers, eincontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 aTraitors, bheady, chighminded, lovers of dpleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a aform of godliness, but bdenying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly awomen laden with sins, led away with divers blusts,

7 Ever alearning, and never able to come to the bknowledge of the ctruth

In the fast paced world we live in the Spirit has a lot of "noise" to compete with.

Just my thoughts,

Shannan

[PapilioMemnon]

Hello,

I firmly believe it's because of the same reason all the Nephites were destroyed: Pride, the hardness, opposition, & resistance of their hearts to the word of God.

As President Benson said about pride:

"Pride is a very misunderstood sin, and many are sinning in ignorance. (See Mosiah 3:11; 3 Ne. 6:18.) In the scriptures there is no such thing as righteous pride—it is always considered a sin. Therefore, no matter how the world uses the term, we must understand how God uses the term so we can understand the language of holy writ and profit thereby. (See 2 Ne. 4:15; Mosiah 1:3–7; Alma 5:61.)

Most of us think of pride as self-centeredness, conceit, boastfulness, arrogance, or haughtiness. All of these are elements of the sin, but the heart, or core, is still missing.

The central feature of pride is enmity—enmity toward God and enmity toward our fellowmen. Enmity means “hatred toward, hostility to, or a state of opposition.” It is the power by which Satan wishes to reign over us.

Pride is essentially competitive in nature. We pit our will against God’s. When we direct our pride toward God, it is in the spirit of “my will and not thine be done.” As Paul said, they “seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ’s.” (Philip. 2:21.)

Our will in competition to God’s will allows desires, appetites, and passions to go unbridled. (See Alma 38:12; 3 Ne. 12:30.)

The proud cannot accept the authority of God giving direction to their lives. (See Hel. 12:6.) They pit their perceptions of truth against God’s great knowledge, their abilities versus God’s priesthood power, their accomplishments against His mighty works.

Our enmity toward God takes on many labels, such as rebellion, hard-heartedness, stiff-neckedness, unrepentant, puffed up, easily offended, and sign seekers. The proud wish God would agree with them. They aren’t interested in changing their opinions to agree with God’s.

....

Another major portion of this very prevalent sin of pride is enmity toward our fellowmen. We are tempted daily to elevate ourselves above others and diminish them. (See Hel. 6:17; D&C 58:41.)

The proud make every man their adversary by pitting their intellects, opinions, works, wealth, talents, or any other worldly measuring device against others. In the words of C. S. Lewis: “Pride gets no pleasure out of having something, only out of having more of it than the next man. … It is the comparison that makes you proud: the pleasure of being above the rest. Once the element of competition has gone, pride has gone.” (Mere Christianity, New York: Macmillan, 1952, pp. 109–10.)

In the pre-earthly council, Lucifer placed his proposal in competition with the Father’s plan as advocated by Jesus Christ. (See Moses 4:1–3.) He wished to be honored above all others. (See 2 Ne. 24:13.) In short, his prideful desire was to dethrone God. (See D&C 29:36; D&C 76:28.)

The scriptures abound with evidences of the severe consequences of the sin of pride to individuals, groups, cities, and nations. “Pride goeth before destruction.” (Prov. 16:18.) It destroyed the Nephite nation and the city of Sodom. (See Moro. 8:27; Ezek. 16:49–50.)

It was through pride that Christ was crucified. The Pharisees were wroth because Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, which was a threat to their position, and so they plotted His death. (See John 11:53.)

Saul became an enemy to David through pride. He was jealous because the crowds of Israelite women were singing that “Saul hath slain his thousands, and David his ten thousands.” (1 Sam. 18:6–8.)

The proud stand more in fear of men’s judgment than of God’s judgment. (See D&C 3:6–7; D&C 30:1–2; D&C 60:2.) “What will men think of me?” weighs heavier than “What will God think of me?”

When pride has a hold on our hearts, we lose our independence of the world and deliver our freedoms to the bondage of men’s judgment. The world shouts louder than the whisperings of the Holy Ghost. The reasoning of men overrides the revelations of God, and the proud let go of the iron rod. (See 1 Ne. 8:19–28; 1 Ne. 11:25; 1 Ne. 15:23–24.)

Pride is a sin that can readily be seen in others but is rarely admitted in ourselves. Most of us consider pride to be a sin of those on the top, such as the rich and the learned, looking down at the rest of us. (See 2 Ne. 9:42.) There is, however, a far more common ailment among us—and that is pride from the bottom looking up. It is manifest in so many ways, such as faultfinding, gossiping, backbiting, murmuring, living beyond our means, envying, coveting, withholding gratitude and praise that might lift another, and being unforgiving and jealous.

Disobedience is essentially a prideful power struggle against someone in authority over us. It can be a parent, a priesthood leader, a teacher, or ultimately God. A proud person hates the fact that someone is above him. He thinks this lowers his position.

Selfishness is one of the more common faces of pride. “How everything affects me” is the center of all that matters—self-conceit, self-pity, worldly self-fulfillment, self-gratification, and self-seeking.

Pride results in secret combinations which are built up to get power, gain, and glory of the world. (See Hel. 7:5; Ether 8:9, 16, 22–23; Moses 5:31.) This fruit of the sin of pride, namely secret combinations, brought down both the Jaredite and the Nephite civilizations and has been and will yet be the cause of the fall of many nations. (See Ether 8:18–25.)

Another face of pride is contention. Arguments, fights, unrighteous dominion, generation gaps, divorces, spouse abuse, riots, and disturbances all fall into this category of pride.

....

The proud do not receive counsel or correction easily. (See Prov. 15:10; Amos 5:10.) Defensiveness is used by them to justify and rationalize their frailties and failures. (See Matt. 3:9; John 6:30–59.)

The proud depend upon the world to tell them whether they have value or not. Their self-esteem is determined by where they are judged to be on the ladders of worldly success. They feel worthwhile as individuals if the numbers beneath them in achievement, talent, beauty, or intellect are large enough. Pride is ugly. It says, “If you succeed, I am a failure.”

Pride is a damning sin in the true sense of that word. It limits or stops progression. (See Alma 12:10–11.) The proud are not easily taught. (See 1 Ne. 15:3, 7–11.) They won’t change their minds to accept truths, because to do so implies they have been wrong.

Pride adversely affects all our relationships—our relationship with God and His servants, between husband and wife, parent and child, employer and employee, teacher and student, and all mankind. Our degree of pride determines how we treat our God and our brothers and sisters. Christ wants to lift us to where He is. Do we desire to do the same for others?

Pride fades our feelings of sonship to God and brotherhood to man. It separates and divides us by “ranks,” according to our “riches” and our “chances for learning.” (3 Ne. 6:12.) Unity is impossible for a proud people, and unless we are one we are not the Lord’s. (See Mosiah 18:21; D&C 38:27; D&C 105:2–4; Moses 7:18.)

Think of what pride has cost us in the past and what it is now costing us in our own lives, our families, and the Church.

Think of the repentance that could take place with lives changed, marriages preserved, and homes strengthened, if pride did not keep us from confessing our sins and forsaking them. (See D&C 58:43.)

Think of the many who are less active members of the Church because they were offended and their pride will not allow them to forgive or fully sup at the Lord’s table.

Pride affects all of us at various times and in various degrees. Now you can see why the building in Lehi’s dream that represents the pride of the world was large and spacious and great was the multitude that did enter into it. (See 1 Ne. 8:26, 33; 1 Ne. 11:35–36.)

Pride is the universal sin, the great vice. Yes, pride is the universal sin, the great vice.

The antidote for pride is humility—meekness, submissiveness. (See Alma 7:23.) It is the broken heart and contrite spirit. (See 3 Ne. 9:20; 3 Ne. 12:19; D&C 20:37; D&C 59:8; Ps. 34:18; Isa. 57:15; Isa. 66:2.)

God will have a humble people. Either we can choose to be humble or we can be compelled to be humble. Alma said, “Blessed are they who humble themselves without being compelled to be humble.” (Alma 32:16.)

Let us choose to be humble.''

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have read and reread President Benson's talk on Pride which is fascinating, an eye-opener, literally! I'm very acquainted with this sin myself. However, listening to the voice of a Prophet, to his counsel, and wisdom, especially because I know that Father spoke through him, I know that I can conquer this one through the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

If anyone wants to read the full talk, here's the link: http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1989.htm/ensign%20may%201989.htm/beware%20of%20pride.htm

Prov. 3:

13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.

Regards,

Edited July 4, 2008 by PapilioMemnon
To change color

[PapilioMemnon]

We don't convince or convert.... the Spirit does, right? Why do so few seem to recognize the Spirit or feel it? Even the ones eager to know the truth?

Right! The Spirit is the one that coverts.

I just have noticed and found that a lot of people, including LDS members, do not know how to recognize the voice of the Spirit, the answers, and they fall into confusion, uncertainty. It's essential for us to learn about the Holy Ghost, familiarize ourselves with His mission, and how He testify/guide us, how does Father talks to us through the Holy Spirit, so that we can recognize the answers and make right decisions.

We need to be acquainted with Father, His character, know who He is, His will, and Jesus Christ, His mission, character, behavior/example; know the standards of truth, commandments, and praying, studying His words, and living the commandments (All important things to qualify us to receive an answer on His timetable, according to our faith & diligence) can help us become familiar with Them, until we come to know Them, and accept Father's will. That takes humbleness & meekness to be taught, do, and behave accordingly.

Change is hard; it's easier to accept and do that which requires less, and less, if nothing at all; no wonder so many decides to dictate their own beliefs... to satisfy themselves.

[MrNirom]

The key sometimes is to teach.. without them knowing they are being taught. MrNirom

[Dale]

Salvation from hell (outer-darkness) is easier to achieve in Mormonism than Evangelicalism. Salvation to most Christians is being saved from hell to only one positive destination they know about heaven. They do not accept the idea of the different two lower kingdoms for the saved as LDS, and us Reorganized LDS do.

LDS have adopted an unusual definitions of eternal life and damnation i doubt are scriptural. While studying the LDS Bible Dictionary topic of damnation i looked up scriptures that were supposed to support a wider definition of damnation. I disagreed with the author that D.&C. 132:4,6,27 had anything to do with saved angels not having eternal life. None of the scriptures in my estimation were anything, but misinterpreted to say only the exalted to gods, or goddess status had eternal life. At most i could see the idea of stopped progress as being a type of damnation for LDS. But damnation as i read the very scriptures cited have to do with only going to the final hell.

I was LDS before i left the LDS Church in 2005. I got baptized a member of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (now called Community of Christ) in 2005) So i have some understanding from experience church teaching. And i get the idea LDS through not understanding Evangelicals, and having the above definitions i mentioned as getting mis-heard by Evangelicals. They never hear LDS as bearing testimony God saved them from hell when they believed. They frequently hear LDS expressing doubts they are saved (meaning exaltation, or doubts about going to the Celestial kingdom). But i thing they hear LDS through not understanding LDS theology read back some Evangelicalism back onto what LDS say. So LDS theology in this area if you don't explain yourself carefully ends up confusing them.

My missionary tip of the day is share your testimony about how Jesus saved you from heel. Do that before getting into doubts, or uncertainty about achieving certain rewards, positions, or glories. Testify that you feel you are saved i the kingdom of heaven. Explain stuff carefully.

To LDS i think being saved to where God and Christ are is way to easy in Evangelicalism. But is their idea of being easily saved from hell way to easy. LDS although i have not read RLDS doing it almost have a universal idea of salvation. Its the idea that many of mankind will be accept for a smaller number of the sons of perdition get saved. In Evangelicalism such salvation is impossible as in their idea the vast majority of mankind accept for the fewer saved gets damned to hell. (Matthew 7:13-14 if i recall the scripture right)

[MrNirom]

My missionary tip of the day is share your testimony about how Jesus saved you from hell. Do that before getting into doubts, or uncertainty about achieving certain rewards, positions, or glories. Testify that you feel you are saved in the kingdom of heaven. Explain stuff carefully.

I would have to agree with you. Because we do not have only two places to go.. heaven or hell.. it is harder for us to describe "Are we going to heaven today if we die?" The "ideal" heaven is the top of the Celestial Kingdom. Anything less.. is like.. what? Hell?

It is hard to say that God has saved us from Hell... when some of us think we are not doing our best... and hell is the telestial kingdom.

Even though we are told what glory the telestial world is.. it is not heaven to us. So to know that right now.. I might be on track to the terrestrial world... it is hard to share with others about the celestial.

For narrow is the gate and straight is the path to that kingdom!

[Misshalfway]

This is a really interesting thread and I appreciate so many of the thoughts shared. I suppose it is imperative that we let our light shine and keep ourselves unspotted from the world.....I don't mean in the sense that we separate ourselves from the world or act as though we are better. I guess I mean the opposite. Reaching out in love more often to those who perhaps don't deserve it or who may not choose to receive it. Perhaps it is seeking out the antidotes to this nasty pride condition and working those cures more fully into our lives. Perhaps it is involving ourselves in our communities and stretching ourselves in social and civic capacities. How else will the light be seen, except we shine it?

The older I get and thru the experiences I have had, I feel increasingly drawn to the attributes of love/charity and the actions of the Savior. There is great power in humility and obedience! There is nothing satisfying about selfishness or the harboring of negative feelings and judgements. And the more we sanctify ourselves, the more the Lord blesses us with capacities to teach and to touch lives.

I often think of that singular group of Nephites and Lamanites who got it right. They were the happiest people. And of course the residents of Enoch. They certainly got it right. Makes me want to search out their secrets of success. :)

Edited July 4, 2008 by Misshalfway

[Iggy]

The LDS faith is a 24/7 faith. It is a life changing faith for most. It is more than just saying NO to smoking, drinking alcohol, coffee and tea.

We eat, breathe, think, live, act, etc. our faith 24 hours a day, 365 days a year and not just until we die, but for an eternity.

What other faith does that?

Not everyone can or will commit to this.

[utcowboy]

Iggy is right, how many times have we been told to remember who we are and what we stand for. How many times have we been told that we never know who is watching us? We are to live our lives as close to the gospel as possible always trying to improve oursleves and those around us. And we do most of this by example, not by the words we say. Thanks Iggy and Misshalfway you two are great examples. :)