Non-LDS beliefs

[abqfriend]

I am not LDS, but your explaining of it makes sense. My religious tradition leaves such decisions ultimately up to God.

John 3:16

We believe that Salvation must come to all mankind exactly the same way. From Adam to our time present. Every person who has ever lived or will ever live will have the opportunity to hear and accept the Gospel, whether in this fallen sphere in which we now live or in the Spirit world after they pass from mortality. Each will have to accept Jesus Christ, repent and be baptized. This is why we perform sacred ordinances like baptism in Holy Temples around the world. The Savior himself was baptized to "fulfill all righteousness". Confusion and contradiction still prevails in Christendom over how mankind is to be saved because of Christ's Atonement. One of the many reasons for the restored Gospel.

To be a Christian.... to be a follower of Christ.... to be saved..... to recieve salvation because of the grace of Jesus Christ, because he drank of the Fathers bitter cup and bore our sins, our griefs, sorrows and afflictions.... we must strive to live his example."if you love me, keep my commandments." If we love him, if we are his.... we strive to keep his commandments. Is this salvation by works? Or is this being a true and faithful servant of the Savior of mankind?

We all must come to salvation in exactly the same way. Same ordinances. One faith, one baptism. God is perfect and as such it could be in no other way.

[bytor2112]

abqfriend.....ultimately the decision is ours. Salvation is free if we choose it. Jesus Christ is our mediator with the Father. He makes eternal life available because he took upon himself our sins. If we would choose eternal life we must follow the Savior......

2 Nephi verse 27: Wherefore, men are free according to the flesh; and all things are given them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself.

It really is very simple...... if we choose to follow the Savior, we must first have faith in Jesus Christ, repent, be baptized by someone having authority to do so and then recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands.... again by authorized servants of Christ. Finally, receive the sacred ordinances made available in Holy Temples and then endure till the end.(follow his commandments)

It is that way for everyone who has ever lived or will ever live. It is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Think about the confusion that exists among Christians today...... is God the author? The truth has been restored and is available to all. In the end, if we are to inherit Eternal Life....life with our Heavenly Father...it is the only way.

[bytor2112]

Abqfriend..... Families are forever!! You have probably heard this if you have been around many LDS folks. But it is true. The family is central to God's plan of happiness for each of us. How happy would you be if you were not together with your family in Eternity. Not very, I am guessing. THe sacred ordinances that I mentioned above make this possible. These ordinances are performed in Holy Temples and seal in both Heaven and on Earth families together.

The plan of happiness, as we call it, is for all of God's children to return home to the God who created them.... with there families...... husband, children, grandchildren, etc. Learning about the church on this site is great and reading the Book of Mormon is even better. But, the best way I can think of to really find out if this stuff is really true is to meet with some of our fulltime missionaries and attend a local LDS church. I promise you, that if you will meet with the missionaries and attend church that you will come to know for yourself that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is indeed the Lord's church, that Joseph Smith did see God the Father and Jesus Christ and that he did translate a sacred record called the Book of Mormon by the power of God.

And you will know why Heavenly Father brought forth this record......

2 Nephi verse 7-9 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?

Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.

And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.

[jadams_4040]

How are people who lived before the Savior "saved" according to non-LDS denominations?

I,ve always been told by non l.d.s that they are saved because of the grace of God, and another one i hear is that God knows there heart and therfore saves them, {but always seem to ferget about the baptism comandment in the bible that applies to "all" not just us; it applies to all whom have ever lived}.:)

[jimuk]

I beleive my father in heaven to be a loving, kind, forgiving father, i try to follow what he would have us do and i would not send anyone to hell because they had not heard of Jesus, "its hardly their fault" and neither would he.

To even think of our father as such a bad unkind person would surely be classed as blasphemy.

He loves us all, each and every one of us, and anyone who truly loves him knows this.

You cant love someone that you are terrified of, "lets all pretend to be good or father is sending us to Hell" what a load of Medieval rubbish, brought about by people who frighten people into worshiping some kind of god.

[prisonchaplain]

I am not LDS, but your explaining of it makes sense. My religious tradition leaves such decisions ultimately up to God.

This may be a side issue, but there are many LDS teachings that seem to make sense. I'm told that much of the Doctrines and Covenants are God's answers to Joseph Smith's questions about religious matters. So, many of the FAQs people ask of Christians, are specifically answered. If one accepts that Joseph was a prophet of God, then these answers offer a lot of clarity.

[prisonchaplain]

I beleive my father in heaven to be a loving, kind, forgiving father, i try to follow what he would have us do and i would not send anyone to hell because they had not heard of Jesus, "its hardly their fault" and neither would he.

To even think of our father as such a bad unkind person would surely be classed as blasphemy.

He loves us all, each and every one of us, and anyone who truly loves him knows this.

You cant love someone that you are terrified of, "lets all pretend to be good or father is sending us to Hell" what a load of Medieval rubbish, brought about by people who frighten people into worshiping some kind of god.

And yet the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. And yet the rich man begged for Lazarus to provide an instant's relief, with a drop of water. No, I don't believe in whipping up fear, or manipulating people into the kingdom. However, our God of love is also a God of justice.

[prisonchaplain]

I,ve always been told by non l.d.s that they are saved because of the grace of God, and another one i hear is that God knows there heart and therfore saves them, {but always seem to ferget about the baptism comandment in the bible that applies to "all" not just us; it applies to all whom have ever lived}.:)

We believe that baptism is a testimony of salvation, and an act of obedience, rather than a prerequisite of conversion, and a means by which salvation is conveyed.

[abqfriend]

Baptism varies based on the faith tradition of the particular group. Some Christians baptize only adults after conversion, some baptise both infants and adults. Some consider it a sacrament, some an ordinance, some neither.

It all depends on the faith community and how they view and understand sacred scripture.

Not all non-LDS Christians baptize in the same way.

I am Catholic-as one example. Our Church baptizes both infants and adults. We consider baptism as a sacrament. We consider it generally necessary for salvation, although we do not see any one not having the opportunity to be baptized not due to their own fault as keeping them from salvation. We are confirmed into the Church at a later age at which we confirm our baptismal vows made in our place by our parents-sometimes called God-Parents. -they pledge to have us brought up in a Christian home-as one example.

Others baptize youth/adults after they have had a conversion experience or "accepted Christ."

So-there is not one way of baptism for non-LDS Christians.

It is all based on how their particular faith community/tradition understands sacred scripture and the particular traditions/doctrines/covenants of their particular church.

We believe that baptism is a testimony of salvation, and an act of obedience, rather than a prerequisite of conversion, and a means by which salvation is conveyed.

[Traveler]

Prisonchaplain & abqfriend: Just for clarification according to LDS doctrine: Baptism is an initiatory ordinance to the covenant by which one becomes a citizen in the Kingdom of G-d (or if you will church). It is the ordinance of spiritual rebirth symbolizing a death and internment of the old self and birth or newness of someone borne of G-d as well as the coronation of sainthood.

The person performing the baptism (as with all ordinances) takes the place or role of G-d as proxy in offering the covenant. This is why John had difficulty baptizing Jesus – realizing that Jesus was G-d and not understanding the full purpose and condescension of Jesus in accepting his own covenant.

I believe there are several parts of a covenant – in this case the baptism covenant with G-d:

1: Physical submission to the ordinance of the covenant.

2: Recognition of the law given in the covenant.

3: Obedience to all the promises made in the covenant.

4: Faithfulness throughout a trail in order fulfill or test all commandments which comprise the Law given in the covenant.

We believe that salvation can only come through covenant with G-d and that only appointed servants of G-d may act as proxy for G-d when a covenant is made through performing an ordiance – in this life or the spirit world following death and before the resurrection. We believe that baptism is for every person and an ordinance done by the saints for others who have died, as a act of sacrifice, love and compassion to mirror the sacrifice, love and compassion of Christ so that all have access to the covenant to enter the Kingdom of G-d according to eternal covenant.

May I add that I personally believe that Jesus did not do anything that was silly, foolish or un-necessary.

The Traveler

Edited July 23, 2008 by Traveler

[abqfriend]

I notice that you do not type out the word God. Is that an LDS doctrine?

If so-why--and please give the LDS Scripture/Book of Mormon Reference or Doctrine and Covenant Reference.

Thank You for giving the LDS understanding of Baptism.

As I said-it varies depending on one's religious tradition or understanding of sacred scripture as they under stand it.

-Carol

Prisonchaplain & abqfriend: Just for clarification according to LDS doctrine: Baptism is an initiatory ordinance to the covenant by which one becomes a citizen in the Kingdom of G-d (or if you will church). It is the ordinance of spiritual rebirth symbolizing a death and internment of the old self and birth or newness of someone borne of G-d as well as the coronation of sainthood.

The person performing the baptism (as with all ordinances) takes the place or role of G-d as proxy in offering the covenant. This is why John had difficulty baptizing Jesus – realizing that Jesus was G-d and not understanding the full purpose and condescension of Jesus in accepting his own covenant.

I believe there are several parts of a covenant – in this case the baptism covenant with G-d:

1: Physical submission to the ordinance of the covenant.

2: Recognition of the law given in the covenant.

3: Obedience to all the promises made in the covenant.

4: Faithfulness throughout a trail in order fulfill or test all commandments which comprise the Law given in the covenant.

We believe that salvation can only come through covenant with G-d and that only appointed servants of G-d may act as proxy for G-d when a covenant is made through performing an ordiance – in this life or the spirit world following death and before the resurrection. We believe that baptism is for every person and an ordinance done by the saints for others who have died, as a act of sacrifice, love and compassion to mirror the sacrifice, love and compassion of Christ so that all have access to the covenant to enter the Kingdom of G-d according to eternal covenant.

May I add that I personally believe that Jesus did not do anything that was silly, foolish or un-necessary.

The Traveler

[bytor2112]

This may be a side issue, but there are many LDS teachings that seem to make sense. I'm told that much of the Doctrines and Covenants are God's answers to Joseph Smith's questions about religious matters. So, many of the FAQs people ask of Christians, are specifically answered. If one accepts that Joseph was a prophet of God, then these answers offer a lot of clarity.

So, your saying I'm a Prophet,eh? Thanks Prison Chaplain....... a very nice compliment indeed. :D:D

[prisonchaplain]

So, your saying I'm a Prophet,eh? Thanks Prison Chaplain....... a very nice compliment indeed. :D:D

In the last days I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, old men will dream dreams, young men will see visions, and both maidservants and menservants will prophesy. (Joel 2:28-29) So...all active believers ought to prophesy. I dare say that I do, by the Spirit's direction, and for the glory of our Savior.