Jesus Christ's Sacrifice

[Stampede]

In pondering the great atonement of our loveing savior. I have recently wondered something.

Christ's atonement is infinite, He took upon our sins to allow us the way back to our father in heaven.

Does this mean that Christ will not be able to come to the celestial kingdom?

we are taught that the Terrestrial kingdom will recieve ministry through Jesus Christ our savior, this is then stating that he will live there. Does this mean he is going to give up his throne and a chance at exaltation after the final judgement?

Because When christ takes upon our Sin that sin is still there, there must needs be Justice.

I thought about sin pertaining to this mortal and telestial realm only. But in the case of Lucifer beng cast out of heaven for sinning against God, that would mean that sin is not limited only to our realm here.

If it's the case that Christ will not be able to have exaltation in the hereafter because of his great sacrifice. Then it would quite literally be the ultimate sacrifice for us. Honestly It's alreadt a selfless act of such great love from our savior i could not even comprehend. that if what i'm thinking is accurate then i wouldn't even know what to say.

[Still_Small_Voice]

Because When christ takes upon our Sin that sin is still there, there must needs be Justice.

Jesus Christ was the only sinless man to live in this life. He was fully accountable and yet without one sin. This made Him qualified to be our Savior. After He paid the price of justice for the whole family of Adam He sat down at the right hand of the Father (meaning He received His exaltation).

"Wherefore, my beloved brethren, have miracles ceased because Christ hath ascended into heaven, and hath sat down on the right hand of God, to claim of the Father his rights of mercy which he hath upon the children of men?" --Mormon 7:27

(Also see Hebrews 1:2-3 and 10:12)

[asuccesscoach4you]

Jesus Christ may live in the Terrestial Kingdom but I'm sure he will visit the Celestial Kingdom and his father very often.

[bert10]

Your question...is great and there some really neat stuff not considered nor taught ....yet that is.

First of all few realize this...the Jesus was chosen to be the Mediator for us and the Father before we went into the Fall. And Jesus loved us so much that He knew He would have to give up some of that Glory that was already His to follow us in the Fall when it will happen. God knew this would happen and we know this because Jesus one day prayed unto His Father for the same Glory [not more or less] that He had before the "world was."

John 17:5 - And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

This had to occur because nothing sinful, guilty, unclean can come into the presence of the Father neither can the Father because of His glory ever come near these without destroying His Creations. Jesus once He gave up some of His glory could minister to us.

As for Jesus have problem going to see the Father because He took the sins of the world....Jesus said...

John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

All who like Jesus overcome the world are given the power of God to become true Sons and daughters of GOD [Father].

Romans 9:4 - Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

2 Peter 1:3 - According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

2 Peter 1:4 - Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Those who overcome are saved the Holy Spirit of Promises. The promises of eternal life and to live with the Father are as always predicated on the condition that we overcome all things...

These teachings that I give, go a little deeper than what the average LDS may give you. So please take some time to reflect on it.

I would like to add that Jesus has revealed very little on His labors and sacrifices to and for us even before the world was created...that He followed us in the fall and labored with us all the days men were on the earth...and shall continue to labor for the Father and with us until after the Day of Judgment.

The way to salvation and back the Father is Road map and Jesus gave it who wish to see.

1. Jesus lived a life of perfection and expect men to do it..which is to live by the Spirit...and hence this commandment of Jesus in Matthew 5:48 to be as perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect.

2. Jesus suffered both in soul and in body so that all men who truly repented of their sins could be forgiven.

3. Jesus died on the cross so that He could resurrect all men and bring all who have died in sin into judgment before the Father.

Peace be unto you

bert10

In pondering the great atonement of our loveing savior. I have recently wondered something.

Christ's atonement is infinite, He took upon our sins to allow us the way back to our father in heaven.

Does this mean that Christ will not be able to come to the celestial kingdom?

we are taught that the Terrestrial kingdom will recieve ministry through Jesus Christ our savior, this is then stating that he will live there. Does this mean he is going to give up his throne and a chance at exaltation after the final judgement?

Because When christ takes upon our Sin that sin is still there, there must needs be Justice.

I thought about sin pertaining to this mortal and telestial realm only. But in the case of Lucifer beng cast out of heaven for sinning against God, that would mean that sin is not limited only to our realm here.

If it's the case that Christ will not be able to have exaltation in the hereafter because of his great sacrifice. Then it would quite literally be the ultimate sacrifice for us. Honestly It's alreadt a selfless act of such great love from our savior i could not even comprehend. that if what i'm thinking is accurate then i wouldn't even know what to say.

[Justice]

Part of the Atonement is that sin and death are defeated.

If Christ were not allowed the fulness of everything that pertains to that victory, then where is the victory?

Christ's reward is endless and eternal. He is greater than all but the Father. He will sit in His throne in the Celestial Kingdom, being worshipped and praised by all who are there, because it is only by His actions that they are there. Without Him it wouldn't matter if anyone was good or evil.

Justice has no claim on Christ because He was sinless and perfect. This is why He was the Only One who could Atone for mankind.

[Misshalfway]

What Christ did for us is absolutely the most loving thing anyone could ever do. But it is important to understand how he did what he did.

You are right when you say that the demands of justice must be satisfied. And you are right that it was possible to make choices against the will of God in the Pre-earth life. But did Jesus actually become sinful when he took on our sin? The answer is absolutely not! If he had become sinful, he would at that point have no power to save. Does that make sense?

We sin and owe a debt. Taking upon our sins doesn't mean becoming sinful. It means that he takes the consequences for us and pays the debt. Like a generous benefactor who volunteers to pay our overdue mortgage on certain conditions. He never becomes the debtor, he just satisfies the demands of the bank. Make sense? And He tells us that He will pay the debt and suffer the consequences of our sin, IF, we will change our lives and commit to Him and follow him. Repentance! That is mercy! We pay for our debts thru our obedience to him, rather than suffering the pains of hell. "...what sufferings you know not...etc. etc." (Read D&C 19:1-24) He does what we can't do....overcoming sin and death....and he is able to do that BECAUSE he is sinless and because he is deity! Becoming sinful would only allow Satan to win. Why do you think Satan tempted the Savior in the NT? If only Jesus would have become sinful! He could have thwarted the whole plan of God!!

Thru the Atonement, Jesus absolutely defeated Satan and all evil and any and all plans to keep the children of Father from coming home to Him! He didn't lose anything! The results of this sacrifice was only gains! Because of what Jesus did, He stands triumphant in the air! He was sinless before and remains sinless now! And now, Father may accomplish His purpose in bringing to pass the immortality and eteranl life of man!! Jesus will absolutely be in the Celestial realm. Count on it!!! And we will see his face there! He will visit other kingdoms but they will not enjoy the association with the Savior as the residence of the Celestial realm will. Why else would Enos say what he did at the end of his life?

Enos 1:27 And I soon go to the place of my rest, which is with my Redeemer; for I know that in him I shall rest. And I rejoice in the day when my mortal shall put on immortality, and shall stand before him; then shall I see his face with pleasure, and he will say unto me: Come unto me, ye blessed, there is a place prepared for you in the mansions of my Father. Amen.

He was a perfect, sinless, unblemished sacrifice. He was the firstborn of the Father and is the author and finisher of our faith. And is even now sitting on the right hand of the Father, and ever calling us to follow Him!

Edited July 13, 2008 by Misshalfway

[Deborah]

How on earth do you come to the conclusion Christ won't be in the Celestial world? Those who inherit the Celestial kingdom will dwell with Elohim and Christ. Christ will minister to the Terrestrial world but will not dwell there. They "receive the presence of the Son" but not the Father.

Christ is God and creator of this world. That he would condescend to come to earth and go through all he went through shows his great love for us. He has bought us with his blood and paid the price demanded by justice but in no sense has he lost any of his glory or godhood by so doing.

[Stampede]

okay, i was talking to my wife and i think i've got it straight now. It didn't make sense to me entirely and it was something that was on my mind.

I see now that i was thinking in the wrong direction, in essence, because he was innocent and pure he could indeed take upon the sins of the world and his suffering was so great int he garden that even the Son of God asked for a reprieve.

My wife put it as Christ lived a perfect life which was a huge plus and when he took upon the sins of the world it sort of cancelled everything out.

Thansk you guys it was a great help to me.

[bert10]

Hi justice...I would like to start with the end of your post...I understand things way differently than you do. I put down just a few things from my point of view just for you to consider

You posted: "Justice has no claim on Christ because He was sinless and perfect. This is why He was the Only One who could Atone for mankind"

That is true.... But consider this ....Also that Justice has no claim on anyone who walks in the Light as Christ walks in the Light because he is cleansed moment by Moment by the blood. Because when a man is led by the Spirit he is not under the law [Gal 5:18] If one is not under the law...then he cannot transgress because for it is written that it is the law that worketh Wrath. So if one is not under the law because he has learned to be led by the Spirit of God...so how can he sin?

Romans 4:15 - Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Galatians 5:18 - But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

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You posted:"Part of the Atonement is that sin and death are defeated."

Sin and death is not defeated but It Can be Defeated..big difference. Sin and Death exist equally as a balance to Righteousness and Eternal Life. For this is part of the Agency GOD the Father gave men. That both good and evil be before men equally.

What each men has to do is overcome the world as Christ has overcome the world.

I tell you the truth...if a man does not overcome the world then he is overcome by it. There can be no truce with darkness.

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The Promises are Given to all: To them That Overcometh:

Revelation 2:17 - He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

1 Corinthians 9:24 - Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

The race is against time. For God gives men a time of repentance for each sin before Justice acts in their lives.

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You posted: "If Christ were not allowed the fulness of everything that pertains to that victory, then where is the victory?"

The victory is the Resurrection and/or translation for some. The resurrection is a free gift to all men whether they are just or unjust. For it is written that both the Just and the unjust shall be resurrected.

Also I did not write this prayer down.

John 17:24 - Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

The fallen world could be withstand God the Father or Jesus in the fullness of their glory. So for them to come here they must give up some of their glory. And this is what Jesus did. So the Earth must be redeemed first before the FAther can come down and visit..or else it shall burn up and vanish away in shame.

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You posted: "Christ's reward is endless and eternal. He is greater than all but the Father. He will sit in His throne in the Celestial Kingdom, being worshipped and praised by all who are there, because it is only by His actions that they are there. Without Him it wouldn't matter if anyone was good or evil."

What is not given as free gifts...are the Promises without fulfilling the conditions upon which they are predicated upon. For it was taught by Christ that blessings rest upon conditions...such as for example...

John 7:38 [The condition] He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, [The promise]out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Yes it does matter if a person is good or evil. Without the wedding garment one cannot enter into the kingdom to live with the Father. And also not all shall worship Christ...some [Lovers of darkness] shall hate Him and reject all that He stands for.

Peace be unto you

bert10

Edited July 14, 2008 by bert10