Ether 12:27 - What does it mean to you?

[HoosierGuy]

What does this verse mean to you personally?

Ether 12 verse 27 -

27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

[Guest tomk]

Christ is describing His covenant relationship with us!

He has, quite literally and quite deliberately, given us the weaknesses we have!

In other words, we've sort of been set up. Doomed to failure without His help!

Our only hope of healing and rescue is through Him.

Again, it was setup this way on purpose!

Once we enter into that covenant relationship with Him ... weak things become strong. Not overnight, but it happens. Gradually. Bit by bit. Line upon line. Here a little and there a little.

We begin to view our sins and weaknesses differently. Instead of being detrimental, they become the very instrument of our sanctification! The catalyst for it.

It all hinges upon our Faith in Christ. Our willingness to repent, or TURN to Him in our weakness, and give the burden to Him.

Those are my thoughts.

Tom

[piper]

For me, it refers to the weakness of the mortal condition. Separated from the presence of our Father and dwelling on this earth where we are weak in so many ways. Though weak, this is in fact an opportunity to grow. If we humble ourselves and seek Him in faith the atonement of our Savior will make, from all this weakness, strength unimaginable to us now. That's my take on it.

[Connie]

Christ is describing His covenant relationship with us!

He has, quite literally and quite deliberately, given us the weaknesses we have!

In other words, we've sort of been set up. Doomed to failure without His help!

Our only hope of healing and rescue is through Him.

Again, it was setup this way on purpose!

Once we enter into that covenant relationship with Him ... weak things become strong. Not overnight, but it happens. Gradually. Bit by bit. Line upon line. Here a little and there a little.

We begin to view our sins and weaknesses differently. Instead of being detrimental, they become the very instrument of our sanctification! The catalyst for it.

It all hinges upon our Faith in Christ. Our willingness to repent, or TURN to Him in our weakness, and give the burden to Him.

Those are my thoughts.

Tom

I don't think he "gave" us our weaknesses. They came as a result of our mortal condition, and we chose them by choosing to come to earth.

Otherwise you are right on. :)

[Guest tomk]

I don't think he "gave" us our weaknesses. They came as a result of our mortal condition, and we chose them by choosing to come to earth.

Otherwise you are right on. :)

27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

"I will show unto them their weakness"

"I give unto men weakness that they may be humble"

The Person saying "I will show" and "I give unto men weakness" is the Lord. He is the One speaking. He is the One showing us our weakness and giving us our weakness.

It is pride that keeps us from being shown our weakness. It is humility that allows the Lord to show us our weakness. He says we are given weakness for a reason. That we may be humble.

In other words -- our weakness presents us with a choice. We can choose to turn to the Lord for help, or we can choose to try and overcome it ourselves. If we choose to turn to the Lord, our weakness becomes our strength ... through His power.

This mortal test was purposefully designed to bring us to our knees. To make us want to cry-out for a Savior. This is merciful. It means that our only hope is Christ. There is no other way or means to heaven, but through Him! This reality requires us to humble ourselves. Many people don't want to admit that they need help with something, that they cannot do it under their own power.

2 Ne. 9: 41

41 O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.

2 Ne. 9: 42

42 And whoso knocketh, to him will he open; and the wise, and the learned, and they that are rich, who are puffed up because of their learning, and their wisdom, and their riches—yea, they are they whom he despiseth; and save they shall cast these things away, and consider themselves fools before God, and come down in the depths of humility, he will not open unto them.

Edited September 14, 2008 by tomk

[Connie]

Okay. So maybe it was given in the same way our mortal experience was given? And since we did choose to come to this mortal experience, we also in a sense chose our weaknesses?

[HoosierGuy]

I asked about this verse because my view of it are similar to Tomk's view

of it and wanted to make sure I was not way off base with my view of it. I'm thinking of my weaknesses and sinful temptations/mistakes and how to overcome them. Reading that verse gives me hope, knowing that Father gave me these weaknesses to actually make me a better person by overcoming them with His and His Son's (our Savior's) help. That's the way I view it anyway. If it's the wrong view then I'm sorry.

[HiJolly]

I asked about this verse because my view of it are similar to Tomk's view

of it and wanted to make sure I was not way off base with my view of it. I'm thinking of my weaknesses and sinful temptations/mistakes and how to overcome them. Reading that verse gives me hope, knowing that Father gave me these weaknesses to actually make me a better person by overcoming them with His and His Son's (our Savior's) help. That's the way I view it anyway. If it's the wrong view then I'm sorry.

HoosierGuy, I think you're right on the interpretation. Good job.

HiJolly

[skalenfehl]

I've pondered this very subject in the past and came to the exact same conclusions as Tom. It is both a scary and a comforting prospect on the same coin, but above all, very humbling...just like the scripture says. If it wasn't for this principle and the Atonement I would drop kick myself constantly out of self contempt. What a bittersweet pill to swallow. Yet because of it, I am ever closer to my Father in Heaven. It's almost like I want to pray and say, "This is your fault!" But He knows me better than I know myself and I trust that He has set me up to succeed. I guess it will all become clear to me when I go for my big PPI in the sky. Thank God for the Atonement. Now if I can only be better tomorrow than I was today.

[Guest tomk]

I think we can scarcely imagine the incredible LOVE with which the Plan of Salvation was constructed.

There is no reason for shame or angst to admit we have weakness, or to be shown such weakness by the Lord (which I testify He will do, if we seek Him). It's part of the Plan! If we revile against the thought of Him giving us weakness, then we revile against the Plan itself. We also revile against Him taking those weaknesses and turning them into strengths! An acknowledgement of our weakness, our nothingness without God's grace, is PART of the Plan!!!! Our utter inability to return home to Father WITHOUT a Savior is PART of the Plan!!!!!

• Mosiah 4: 5, 11

  5 For behold, if the knowledge of the goodness of God at this time has awakened you to a sense of your nothingness, and your worthless and fallen state—

  • • •

  11 And again I say unto you as I have said before, that as ye have come to the knowledge of the glory of God, or if ye have known of his goodness and have tasted of his love, and have received a remission of your sins, which causeth such exceedingly great joy in your souls, even so I would that ye should remember, and always retain in remembrance, the greatness of God, and your own nothingness, and his goodness and long-suffering towards you, unworthy creatures, and humble yourselves even in the depths of humility, calling on the name of the Lord daily, and standing steadfastly in the faith of that which is to come, which was spoken by the mouth of the angel.

• Hel. 12: 7

  7 O how great is the nothingness of the children of men; yea, even they are less than the dust of the earth.

For behold, if the knowledge of the goodness of God at this time has awakened you to a sense of your nothingness, and your worthless and fallen state

The only context in which knowing God's GOODNESS would AWAKEN US to a sense of our NOTHINGNESS WITHOUT GOD, OUR WORTHLESS AND FALLEN STATE WITHOUT GOD, would be if that NOTHINGNESS WITHOUT GOD was a part of God's Plan!!!!!

Once we enter into that covenant relationship, partnering with Christ to turn ALL of our weaknesses into strengths....mortality makes sense. It stops being this cruel sick joke and becomes a challenge. A joyful one, even in the darkest of times. For we have a sense of why we are being asked to pass through the pain and frustration. Because that is how we learn best! For some reason, the lessons we need to learn to become like God involve coming down here, forgetting our former life with Him, and having to walk by faith while we learn to bridle our passions. It must be THE WAY to become like God. Otherwise our mortality would be different.

It's amazing to realize.

[Connie]

I asked about this verse because my view of it are similar to Tomk's view

of it and wanted to make sure I was not way off base with my view of it. I'm thinking of my weaknesses and sinful temptations/mistakes and how to overcome them. Reading that verse gives me hope, knowing that Father gave me these weaknesses to actually make me a better person by overcoming them with His and His Son's (our Savior's) help. That's the way I view it anyway. If it's the wrong view then I'm sorry.

If we understand the word "give" a little differently, that's nothing to apologize for. I actually agree with you, i simply think it's also important to emphasize that choice was involved. As it continues to be involved. We can choose to act on our weaknesses or turn to Lord and be strengthened.

[Guest tomk]

In any event, Christ is the One ordained to help our weaknesses become strengths.

It's not a matter of thinking if we "need His help". We do need it.

Setting aside Him helping our weaknesses become strengths for a moment -- let's just contemplate the RELATIONSHIP part. How can we think to live with a Jesus (and Heavenly Father) that we don't know???

That is the real rub. Do we WANT to live with Them and DO what they DO?

Mosiah 5: 13

13 For how knoweth a man the master whom he has not served, and who is a stranger unto him, and is far from the thoughts and intents of his heart?

Even if you don't feel you don't have weaknesses, the covenant relationship is still required so that we can be taught by Him and be One with Him.

[norgaards]

I'll try to explain what i believe as good as i can as English isn't my mothertongue.

I think that it is the weaknesses of the flesh which we experience in this mortal life. It is also bad habits (which is called chains in the scriptures) which we struggle to overcome. What may be weakness for one person isn't necessarily weakness for another person. The Lord nows what opposition a person needs personally to make what may be weak in him strong (2.Ne. 2:11).

As already cited we become more conscious about our own weaknesses when we come unto Christ and see our weaknesses in his light (Mosiah 4:5). At the same time , however, we become partakers in the mercy or power made available through the Atonement, which will make our weaknesses strong.

This blessing doesn't come to us if we are standing with a leg in each camp. To get it we must follow Christ's example:

The Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him, (John 8:29)

And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. (1.John 3:22)

My own experience is that we need to move forward in obedience to the Lords commandments, and leave our weaknesses behind our back to get the blessing or the power through which our weaknesses can be made strong. When we do that we will be counted among those who 'overcometh' (Revelation 3:21) and the Lord will help us overcome our weaknesses.

I have a testimony about this verse in Isaiah - which is interestingly also given in D&C 89:18-21:

He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength. Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall:

But they that await upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint. (Isaiah 40:29-31)

We will only be partakers of that blessing, not being weary or faint as regards to our testimony, if we move forward in obedience and faith.

Thanks

John

Edited October 22, 2008 by norgaards

[Guest tomk]

I have enjoyed the commentary so far.

Inasmuch as we lack understanding of the source and nature of our weaknesses, Christ will teach us personally what their exact nature is as we come unto Him. The importance lies not in the semantics of what "giving" us our weaknesses means ... what is important is TO WHOM we go in order to become stronger. I believe the Lord is the only Source for making us strong.

For me, believing that the Lord GAVE me my weaknesses -- and that in some pre-mortal realm I AGREED TO ACCEPT THOSE WEAKNESSES -- this reality changes everything for me. I can approach the throne of Grace with CONFIDENCE not shame ... for when I counsel with the Lord I am partnering with Him. I am continuing the partnership that began in the pre-existence. Togther, the Lord and I are taking my weaknesses and using them to teach me, humble me, and ultimately make me stronger. Without my weaknesses, such growth would not be possible, and I would feel no real need to cry unto my Savior, or make use of the great gift He has given me in the form of His Atonement! Strangely, I am grateful for my weaknesses!

[Elgama]

I remember a blessing when I was feeling miserable that said I was to pray very hard before improving any of my faults because Heavenly Father had given them to me to help me get through the difficult times in my life lol

-Charley

[Misshalfway]

I don't know if God literally said "alright Miss, I am giving you some serious pride. And to TomK, I am giving this incredibly desire for power. " I think that he gave us the condition of human weakness and from there I am not sure how specific it gets.

I know we progressed in the pre-earth life and developed talents there. Sometimes I look at my weakness and how Satan plays on it and wonder if he didn't know my weaknesses in that realm or if he just knows human nature so well that he plays that way with everyone.

I do know that our weaknesses are some of our best friends. They keep us humble and striving and needing help from the Lord. I think there is great power in the process of this Ether scripture because thru the conquering of weakness with the Lord's help, we become strong. I like this process in my life. I won't say love, cause my weaknesses just bite, but I do love how it feels to climb the little mount Everest's of my life.

I suppose the trick is getting humble enough to allow Father to show us our weakness. That isn't always fun, but if we can get past the threatening parts of that, it can be really really good for the soul.

[Guest tomk]

That Satan knows us and takes advantage of our weakness is scriptural:

2 Ne. 2: 8, 27, 29

8 Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life according to the flesh, and taketh it again by the power of the Spirit, that he may bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, being the first that should rise.

• • •

27 Wherefore, men are free according to the flesh; and all things are given them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself.

• • •

29 And not choose eternal death, according to the will of the flesh and the evil which is therein, which giveth the spirit of the devil power to captivate, to bring you down to hell, that he may reign over you in his own kingdom.

But equally scriptural (and this is where I would focus) is the Lord's power to free us from that which binds us:

27 Wherefore, men are free according to the flesh; and all things are given them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator [CHRIST] of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself.