Moratorium on the Death Penalty

[Truegrits]

Two states now -(Oregon and Washington State) allow medically legal suicide for terminally ill patients.

Being from the health care field, seeing first-hand the horrible, lingering death that a LOT of people experience, I wish there was a humane way for the ones in those circumstances, to have some dignity at the end.

I have always wondered why we couldn't let our loved ones go out with the same peace/dignity that we afford a beloved pet. I wish my mother could have gone from this life as peacefully as my Dixie did.

I wish that for myself.

[Traveler]

Other than killing in acts of war-why cannot we be Pro-Life?

Part of country seems to want to be Pro-life on some things-but Pro-death on others.

To me-Pro-Life-means Pro-Life.

Two states now -(Oregon and Washington State) allow medically legal suicide for terminally ill patients.

My husband has a terminal illness-but he is very much Pro-Life.

-Carol

When it comes to going to heaven I am pro-death because I do not know of any other way to get there other than dying. So anyone that looks forward to living with G-d is not pro-life?

Sometimes I think pro-life is defined as anti death. I do not think like that. I believe a person can be pro-life and pro-death. That is - that they can love and enjoy life and have no fear in death.

Since you think you are pro-life - what in your mind is the problem with death?

The Traveler

[abqfriend]

I do not think we should kill a child of God before their birth-so I am against abortion.

I do not think we should kill those with a terminal illness-so I am against euthanasia.

I do not believe we should kill convicts.

I do not believe we should kill the mentally challenged or physically disabled.

I am not against natural death-my husband will soon face his-I am against a culture of death that does not value life.

Carol

When it comes to going to heaven I am pro-death because I do not know of any other way to get there other than dying. So anyone that looks forward to living with G-d is not pro-life?

Sometimes I think pro-life is defined as anti death. I do not think like that. I believe a person can be pro-life and pro-death. That is - that they can love and enjoy life and have no fear in death.

Since you think you are pro-life - what in your mind is the problem with death?

The Traveler

[Guest SisterofJared]

Being from the health care field, seeing first-hand the horrible, lingering death that a LOT of people experience, I wish there was a humane way for the ones in those circumstances, to have some dignity at the end.

I have always wondered why we couldn't let our loved ones go out with the same peace/dignity that we afford a beloved pet. I wish my mother could have gone from this life as peacefully as my Dixie did.

I wish that for myself.

To me, I think the Lord is in charge of how they die....when he allows a terminal or lingering, painful illness, I think thee is a plan in mind. Perhaps the ill one learns a characteristic before they die, something God wanted them to know. Perhaps they already have every characteristic they need, but a son or daughter needs the growth that will come from watching a loved one suffer, and trying to serve them. I know WE don't have the answers, but God does. He says we should count our sorrows as joys, because they lead us to him. He also says that all our sorrows can be a blessing to us. I don't understand people saying they believe someone should die with dignity. Where is the indignity in suffering an illness? Peace, yes, I can see that point... but it has nothing to do with dignity. In fact, someone who is good to others inspite of their suffering... that is dignity!

If we have a law that says you will be put to death for killing others, well then if someone chooses to kill, in my view they have committed suicide. No need to blame society for their choice. It's only the wishy-washy will we or won't we execute them that makes many people think they can get away with it.... driving up the murder rate, IMO.

However, that said.... it is interesting that in the OT the Lord instructed them to have an alter for murderers, where they could flee and if they were touching it, they could not be arrested. There were actual cities for murderers. I think perhaps some murderers may not be a threat to society as a whole. But crazies and people who rob and kill are a definate threat, and should be SPEEDILY executed.

The old days where horse thieves were hung is fortunately gone. Life is certainly more valuable. But for killers.... THEY themselves have robbed someone of a chance for repentance and growth. My heart doesn't bleed for them too much.

SoJ

[Elgama]

I do not think we should kill those with a terminal illness-so I am against euthanasia.

I'm not lucky enough to have a terminal illness, like many others I have to face the fact it won't kill me but I will have to live a reduced quality of life for the rest of my life. Terminal must be terrible to be handed as a diagnosis, I remember the relief being told I was not goingto die, but 6 months later I realised I could potentially be living in agony for over 70 years, I was only 21 and my genetics suggest getting to at least 90 is probably. Right now its not bad, but having spent nearly 5 years of my life living between bed, sofa and a wheelchair, unable to do much except live in a darkened room, I understand the prayer to please let me die and would personally never judge someone who did take their life or asked for help if they couldn't do it themselves or just asked someone to be with them. I personally think euthanasia with controls would allow people who choose to go, to have someone with them and not fear what will happen to them when they have gone.

But I know people who have been ill so long morphine has long stopped helping them with their pain they have no place to go for reprieve. Sometimes life is far worse than death, which after all is our goal.

It was a friend of Cardinal Basil Hume who when he heard he was dying said 'congratulations I am so excited for you'

-Charley

[prisonchaplain]

Other than killing in acts of war-why cannot we be Pro-Life?

Part of country seems to want to be Pro-life on some things-but Pro-death on others.

To me-Pro-Life-means Pro-Life.

-Carol

I do not see the necessary connection between protecting unborn babies from being killed vs. the state carrying out execution of its most heinous murderers. My reading of the Old Testament and of Romans 13 leads me to believe God ordained government to keep order and "wield the sword."

Again, there are strong reasons why I question the manner in which we carry it out, whether or not it's effective, and so forth...but to say that abortion and the death penalty are moral equivalents strikes me as very wrong.

[abqfriend]

I do not know about Moral Equivalents-but Romans 13 speaks of Loving our neighbor and in verse 9-You shall not kill.

Is it OK to resist authority-if we feel part of that authority is unjust?

If the State allows abortion-is that OK?

If the State allows euthanasia-is that OK?

I agree killing an unborn child who has no voice is different than killing a convicted murderer by State action for the State-but are not States sometimes wrong?

Should we not resist the State if we feel guided by our conscience and our Church that they are wrong?

If we feel laws are unjust to the born and unborn--is it not our moral imperative to try to peacefully change those laws?

-Carol

I do not see the necessary connection between protecting unborn babies from being killed vs. the state carrying out execution of its most heinous murderers. My reading of the Old Testament and of Romans 13 leads me to believe God ordained government to keep order and "wield the sword."

Again, there are strong reasons why I question the manner in which we carry it out, whether or not it's effective, and so forth...but to say that abortion and the death penalty are moral equivalents strikes me as very wrong.

Edited November 15, 2008 by abqfriend

[Elgama]

I don't understand people saying they believe someone should die with dignity. Where is the indignity in suffering an illness? Peace, yes, I can see that point... but it has nothing to do with dignity. In fact, someone who is good to others inspite of their suffering... that is dignity!

I agree my illness has been a great blessing BUT there is nothing dignified about the suffering involved, about my poor husband having to work full time, care for me, do extra housework and never truly getting time to himself. There is nothing dignified about having to train a 2 year old to look after you. I do not feel dignified when a stranger has to dress me or when I go to the Drs to yet again be told nothing can be done.

I am the last to moan but I truly understand the phrase be put out of your misery - even the Saviour although he accepted his Father's will asked if there was anyway the cup could be taken from him. And he wanted company.

-Charley

[Truegrits]

My mother, before the end-stages of Parkinson's Disease, was a soft spoken, gentle, kind person. The last four years of her life was an existence that I would not wish for anyone. She used language that had never before crossed her lips. She cried every day, and prayed to die.

She couldn't understand why we were "doing this to her." She had to wear diapers, and endure the (for her) embarrassment of being changed. She could not feed herself, and would try to end it by refusing to eat for several days.

She would have an occasional lucid day, where she was cognizant of her situation, and her behavior. Those were the worst days; that was when she would realize that she was trapped in a situation she couldn't control; saying and doing things she would never otherwise have done. She would beg us to "help" her...that if we really loved her, we would.

No, for my mother, there was no dignity in those last years.

[abqfriend]

Perhaps we need to start a new thead on suffering.

-Carol

[Truegrits]

Oooooops...sorry Carol.

[prisonchaplain]

I do not know about Moral Equivalents-but Romans 13 speaks of Loving our neighbor and in verse 9-You shall not kill.

The command not to kill is a reference to the 10-commandments, not to the state carrying out its law enforcement and judicial duties. In fact, the death penalty is part of the Mosaic law. Yes, we love our neighbors. However, in time of war, we must kill to defend, yes? Likewise, the state, to defend life and righteousness, does have the authority to execute.

Is it OK to resist authority-if we feel part of that authority is unjust?

If the State allows abortion-is that OK?

If the State allows euthanasia-is that OK?

Of course...that is what the prophets did repeatedly. But, my reading of Scripture informs me that God historically permits the death penalty. So, if I oppose it, it's because of faulty application, not an inherent immorality in the punishment.

I agree killing an unborn child who has no voice is different than killing a convicted murderer by State action for the State-but are not States sometimes wrong?

Should we not resist the State if we feel guided by our conscience and our Church that they are wrong?

If we feel laws are unjust to the born and unborn--is it not our moral imperative to try to peacefully change those laws?

-Carol

Of course. And, if you believe the death penalty is wrong, lobby you must! I question how it's being carried out in the U.S., for reasons previously stated. Further, I'm concerned that there are more wrongful convictions than we may have previously estimated. But, the penalty itself, does not seem to be wrong.

[zookeeper]

My overriding belief is that it is always possible for criminals to improve and that by its very finality the death penalty contradicts this. Therefore, I support those organizations and individuals who are trying to bring an end to the use of the death penalty.

Tenzin Gyatso

I agree that it is possible for anyone to improve, but death is not final! This life is a just a speck of eternity. We will all have opportunities to improve/repent/learn in the next life. I'd rather those individuals who so horribly abuse other peoples' lives be sent on, for our protection and for them to face their maker.