Rapture?

[Aesa]

There's contention between evangelicals in regards to whether Christ will come before the 7 years tribulation and take the true church -- or whether it will be after. I personally think the saints will be on the earth during the tribulation.

Proverbs 10:30 states that "The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth."

In the Parable of the Wheat and Tares, described in Matthew 13:24-30, God: Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

As Jesus says in this parable, the wicked will be the ones taken and the righteous will be put in the barn.

But what does LDS doctrine say about this?

Edited December 11, 2008 by Aesa

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

Nah, we get to stick it out to the end. Perhaps when it's talking about the barn it's talking about the gathering in of Zion?

[ninjormon]

We are taught that the Church or at least the Priesthood shall not ever be taken from the earth until all of the work of Heavenly Father is completed.

[Aesa]

We are taught that the Church or at least the Priesthood shall not ever be taken from the earth until all of the work of Heavenly Father is completed.

Taken from the earth?

I thought it was never to be taken away again? Or is that just the restoration of truth?

[NeuroTypical]

But what does LDS doctrine say about this?

We don't use the word 'rapture', we talk about the millenium.

From the Gospel Principles manual:

Chapter 43: The Second Coming of Jesus Christ

What Will Jesus Do When He Comes Again?

1. He will cleanse the earth.

2. He will judge his people

3. He will usher in the Millennium. The Millennium is the thousand-year period when Jesus will reign on the earth.

4. He will complete the Resurrection.

5. He will take his rightful place as king of heaven and earth. He will rule all the people of the earth in peace for a thousand years.

Chapter 44: The Millennium - A thousand years of peace, love, and joy will begin on the earth at the second coming of Jesus Christ. This thousand-year period is called the Millennium. It will be the final thousand years of the earth’s temporal existence.

Who Will Be on Earth during the Millennium? - Only righteous people will live on the earth during the Millennium. They will be those who have lived virtuous and honest lives.

What Will Be Done during the Millennium? - There will be two great works for members of the Church during the Millennium: temple work and missionary work. Te

Conditions during the Millennium

The earth will again be as it was when Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden

Satan Bound

Peace on the Earth

Righteous Government

No Disease or Death

All Things Revealed

Changes in the Animal Kingdom (The animal kingdom will also be at peace.)

In many ways, life will be much as it is now, except that everything will be done in righteousness. People will eat and drink and will wear clothing (see Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 115). People will continue to plant and harvest crops and build houses (see Isaiah 65:21).

One Final Struggle after the Millennium

[rameumptom]

Rapture is the Protestant term for "Translation." Paul mentions translation/rapture as the righteous being lifted up to see Christ and changed (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17). The concept of a 7 year period, where the righteous are raptured at the beginning of it so that they avoid the tribulation actually comes from the following at Wikipedia:

Some Pre-Tribulation proponents maintain that the earliest known extra-Biblical reference to the "Pre-Tribulation" rapture is from a sermon falsely attributed to the fourth-century Church Father Ephraem the Syrian, which says, "For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."[5][6] However, the interpretation of this writing, as supporting Pre-Tribulation rapture, is debated.[7]

There exist at least one 18th century and two 19th century Pre-Tribulation references, in a book published in 1788, in the writings of a Catholic priest Emmanuel Lacunza [8] in 1812, and by John Nelson Darby himself in 1827.[9] However, both the book published in 1788 and the writings of Lacunza have opposing views regarding their interpretations.

The rise in belief in the "Pre-Tribulation" rapture is sometimes attributed to a 15-year old Scottish-Irish girl named Margaret McDonald (a follower of Edward Irving), who in 1830 had a vision that was later[10] published in 1861.

The popularization of the term is associated with the teaching of John Nelson Darby, prominent among the Plymouth Brethren, and the rise of premillennialism and dispensationalism in English-speaking churches at the end of the 19th century. In 1908, the doctrine of the rapture was further popularized by an evangelist named William Eugene Blackstone, whose book, Jesus is Coming, sold more than one million copies. The first known theological use of the word "rapture" in print occurs with the Scofield Reference Bible of 1909.[11]

In 1957, John Walvoord, a theologian at Dallas Theological Seminary, authored a book,The Rapture Question, that gave theological support to the Pre-Tribulation rapture; this book eventually sold over 65,000 copies. In 1958, J. Dwight Pentecost authored another book supporting the Pre-Tribulation rapture, Things to Come: A Study in Biblical Eschatology, which sold 215,000 copies.

During the 1970s, the rapture became popular in wider circles, in part due to the books of Hal Lindsey

...

The Pre-Tribulation rapture is the view that the rapture will occur before the beginning of the Tribulation period. According to this view, the Christian Church that existed prior to that seven-year period has no vital role during the seven years of Tribulation, and will therefore be removed. Many people who accept Christ after the rapture will be martyred for their faith during the Tribulation (Rev 20:4). Saint John the Divine, which some believe is the apostle John, is seen in Revelation 4:1 as representing the Church caught up to Heaven. John hears the Trumpet and a voice that says, "Come up hither", and he is translated in the Spirit to Heaven and then sees what will happen for those left on earth. The Pre-Tribulation rapture is the most widely held position among American Evangelical Christians.[citation needed] It has become popular in recent years around the world and through the work of dispensational preachers such as Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost, Tim LaHaye, Dr. J. Vernon McGee, Chuck Smith, Dr. Chuck Missler, Dr. Jack Van Impe, Dr. Grant Jeffrey, and Dr. David Jeremiah.

...

Post-Tribulation

The post-tribulation rapture (or "Post-Trib") view places the rapture at the end of the Tribulation period, based on passages such as 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, seen as quoting the words of "the Lord" as indicated in Matthew 24:29-31 (see table below). From this perspective, Christian believers will be on the earth as witnesses to Christ during the entire seven years, until the last day of the tribulation period.

The post-tribulation view brings Christ's "appearing" and his "coming" together in one all-encompassing, grand event. Matthew 24:29–31; "Immediately after the tribulation of those days…they shall gather together his elect…", is cited as a foundational scripture for this view. Pat Robertson describes the end times this way in his 1995 novel The End of the Age. Another supporting scripture is John 17:15-16, where Jesus prays that the Father not take his (Jesus') disciples from the earth, but that he (the Father) would nevertheless "keep them from the evil one." This is taken to preclude a Pre-Trib or a Mid-Trib rapture to heaven at any time. [18] Prominent authors supporting this view are Walter R. Martin, John Piper, George E. Ladd, Robert H. Gundry, and Douglas Moo.

Catholics, Mormons and many other Christians do not believe anyone will escape the tribulation. We do believe that when Christ comes, the righteous will be lifted up to him and changed into holy beings.

LDS teachings add that many have already been translated in the past, including the apostle John, the Three Nephites, and the city of Enoch. When Christ comes in glory, he will bring the City of Enoch with him, and it will join with the earthly holy city of Zion, to become one people.

[ninjormon]

Taken from the earth?

I thought it was never to be taken away again? Or is that just the restoration of truth?

Quoted from a reference on lds.org

LDS.org - Relief Society Chapter Detail - The Mission of the Prophet Joseph Smith

[Aesa]

Joseph Smith was the agent through whom the Lord saw fit to begin the great latter-day work. To him the Father and Son appeared in heavenly vision, upon him the keys of the everlasting priesthood were conferred, with authority to transmit them to others, with the promise that the priesthood should never be taken from the earth again, until the purposes of the Father were accomplished.

I knew Latter-day Saints didn't believe in the pre-trib rapture.

But they kind of believe in the post-trib rapture, if you interpret it according to proverbs 10:30.

[annewandering]

it seems kinda pointless to me to take all the good people off the earth before the trials. whos gonna be the prophets to lie dead in jerusalem? whos gonna fight the bad guys from the north? who is going to hold jerusalem for that long seige? who is going to build the temples?

trust me it isnt going to be the wicked.

[deseretgov]

I believe lifted up is a figurative word. We also use the word caught up. I don't think any bdy living on the earth will suddenly develp the ability to fly. I believe it means that our bodies will be changed into a higher state of being, Terrestrial.

[KristofferUmfrey]

I believe the "Rapture" as touted by many Christians these days is a satanic counterfeit to Zion/New Jerusalem.

[Hemidakota]

When we look back on Noah time, there was no rapture even then. In the last 120-years, I do believe there were still saints left to teach those who would listened. Eventually, they all either died or were immortalize.

There is no scripture reference that literally introduces the word rapture.

[rameumptom]

Prior to the Flood, there WAS a rapture, or mass translation. It was called the City of Enoch. After it was taken up, many righteous people were translated up to the city, until the only righteous people left were in the ark.

That said, I do not believe a pre-tribulation rapture is going to occur, as the translation of Enoch's city was DURING the tribulations of his day. Enoch was involved in fighting the giants, wars and rumors of wars, etc.

[Hemidakota]

Let me correct this statement. An idea of the age relationships of the people in this period is helpful.

The record shows us that Enoch was sixty-five years old when Methuselah was born (Moses 6:25), and that Methuselah was one hundred eighty-seven years old when Lamech was born (Moses 8:5), making Enoch two hundred fifty-two at Lamech's birth. Lamech had lived one hundred eighty-two years before the time of Noah's birth (Moses 8:8), which would have made Enoch four hundred thirty-four years old. Since Enoch had been translated at age four hundred thirty, we can place the birth of Noah just four years after the translation of the City of Zion.

Moses 8 ends with God's declaration that "the end of all flesh is before me, for the earth is filled with violence, and behold I will destroy all flesh from off the earth" (Moses 8:30). This verse corresponds with Gen. 6:13. The remaining nine verses of Genesis 6 (14-22) contain instructions for building the ark. Genesis 7 begins with the animals penned aboard the ark and God charging Noah to proceed to board with those whom he had designated. Genesis 7:6 reads, "Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth."

Noah being four-years old, I highly doubt he was by himself. There was a selected a few that helped Noah prior to the deluge. Now there a question in why Noah waited until last five years of his father's death in being married. However, his grandfather lived additional time after Lamech, perhaps others that we are not aware of was there assisting.

The scriptural record is almost void of information on the early life experience of Noah. In Genesis, the second mention of Noah states that he was "five hundred years old: and [he] begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth" (Gen. 5:32). In Moses the second mention is also in announcement of the birth of his sons. Noah's age in that source and the order of their birth differs from the Genesis record. It explains that Noah was four hundred fifty years old when Japheth was born, forty hundred ninety-two years old when Shem was born, and a ripe five hundred years at the birth of Ham.

For further information on Noah's earlier years we must look elsewhere. D&C 107:52 tells of his unusually early ordination: "Noah was ten years old when he was ordained [to the Melchizedek Priesthood] under the hand of Methuselah." Even with a casual curiosity, one wonders about the unique factors, either in his character or in the circumstances of his time, that brought about ordination at the age of ten. Lamech was thirty-two, Methuselah one hundred, and even Enoch was twenty-five when similarly ordained. Noah seems to have enjoyed the benefits of good family life. The record states that after Lamech begat Noah he lived five hundred sixty-nine years "and begat sons and daughters" (Moses 8:10). Not only would it seem that Noah was surrounded by siblings, but by virtue of the fact that Lamech came from a line of ordained preachers of righteousness, we may presume that the children were well-raised and shared the values to which Noah held. Apocryphal accounts tell of an especially close relationship between Noah and a brother named Nir. 3

There is no scriptural indication that Noah had children prior to Japheth, though it would seem unnatural to be childless for four hundred fifty years. Of course, Noah's knowledge of the depravity of his generation and the impending flood could rightfully interfere with the natural desire for marriage and children. A Jewish legend contains the following account:

Noah had not married until he was four hundred and ninety-eight years old. Then the Lord had bidden him to take a wife unto himself. He had not desired to bring children into the world, seeing that they would all have to perish in the flood, and he had only three sons, born unto him shortly before the deluge came. God had given him so small a number of offspring that he might be spared the necessity of building the ark on an overlarge scale in case they turned out to be pious. And if not, if they, too, were depraved like the rest of their generation, sorrow over their destruction would but be increased in proportion to their number. While this sentiment may be accurate, the legend poses some obvious scriptural problems. The changed dates for the birth of Japheth and Shem in the Moses account would make them both illigitimate, if the legend were true. Further, the claim that the birth of the three sons occurred "shortly" before the deluge came conflicts with the scriptural records. In Genesis their birth preceded the flood by one hundred years, while in Moses an additional fifty years is added in the case of Japheth and eight additional years in the case of Shem.

Below are comparisons of some important scriptural verses bearing upon the events of this period.

GENESIS 5

32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

MOSES 8

12 And Noah was four hundred and fifty years old, and begat Japheth; and forty-two years afterward he begat Shem of her who was the mother of Japheth, and when he was five hundred years old he begat Ham.

13 And Noah and his sons hearkened unto the Lord, and gave heed, and they were called the sons of God.

[J-Pip]

When we look back on Noah time, there was no rapture even then. In the last 120-years, I do believe there were still saints left to teach those who would listened. Eventually, they all either died or were immortalize.

There is no scripture reference that literally introduces the word rapture.

I believe the word rapture comes from the latin raptus, meaning carried away. I would argue that Noah and his family were spared from the wrath of God. So was Lot and his family at the time of Sodom and Gomorah.

An interesting thing about the word rapture, it's used mostly to describe an extremely joyful delight which would be a good way to express how we will feel at the time we first meet our Savior.

[Casslan]

The Lord Jesus will come Post Tribulation.

The following is by me [as Ephraimsdaughter] posted in another forum:

All quotes are from the KJV.

There is no rapture as defined by some "Christians". Believers are "not removed" from the earth before the times of trouble. Jesus himself said the following:

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. (Matthew 24:29-42 - emphasis on Verses 31 & 40-41).

Further information to show the events after the fact rather than before - the dead in Christ first, then those believers who have survived:

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1Thessalonians 4:16-17).

[Jasmin]

We don't use the word 'rapture', we talk about the millenium.

From the Gospel Principles manual:

That is exactly what the JW's believe.