The Gospel of Thomas?

[TheyCallMeMom]

A friend of mine inquired about a movie she had just seen "stigmata" and the gospel of Thomas..

I know very little about either.. Stigmata is vague as I grew up catholic but didnt really pay attention..

some truth for her , and myself, would be appreciated

[the_last_gunslinger]

A friend of mine inquired about a movie she had just seen "stigmata" and the gospel of Thomas..

I know very little about either.. Stigmata is vague as I grew up catholic but didnt really pay attention..

some truth for her , and myself, would be appreciated

Stigmata is a phenomenon believed to manifest itself upon those so righteous that they experience the physical wounds of Christ. They often bleed from their hands, feet, etc. In the movie, "Stigmata" the main character was suffering from such an infliction that would have killed her once it got to its final stages, which is the piercing in the side, though I don't know if there are any accounts of stigmata that proceeded that far.

The Gospel of Thomas is a Gnostic text which includes alleged sayings of Christ, as opposed to a narrative like the canonical gospels. Its emphasis is on how we can achieve heaven on earth, i.e. if you split open a log, you will find heaven, in other words, God is manifest in every facet of creation.

This is off the top of my head, but I think everything here is more or less accurate.

Hope this helps.

[TheyCallMeMom]

The Gospel of Thomas is a Gnostic text which includes alleged sayings of Christ, as opposed to a narrative like the canonical gospels. Its emphasis is on how we can achieve heaven on earth, i.e. if you split open a log, you will find heaven, in other words, God is manifest in every facet of creation.

This is why she came to say she feels better because she does not have to attend church. I have a few friends who "have church at home" its kinda like a pass for them in their minds

[the_last_gunslinger]

This is why she came to say she feels better because she does not have to attend church. I have a few friends who "have church at home" its kinda like a pass for them in their minds

Hmm. So they believe that this gospel is proof, in their minds, that an actual church is not needed? Just want to make sure I understood it right.

If so, it is an erroneous excuse, at least in my opinion. It is not considered canonical by any major religious group and it blatantly contradicts canon in several instances.

Though I guess it is her decision as to whether or not she believes it. But to me it sounds like a form of rationalizing.

[TheyCallMeMom]

you would be correct in your understanding..

its been quite a challenge for me

It hard to correct when I have no clue as to where she is pulling information from

[Moksha]

The Gospel of Thomas is a Gnostic text which includes alleged sayings of Christ,

Of course, many of Jesus' sayings are the same as the canonized gospels, just that the book of Thomas seem to have more of them than were recorded elsewhere.

[the_last_gunslinger]

you would be correct in your understanding..

its been quite a challenge for me

It hard to correct when I have no clue as to where she is pulling information from

I think the entire text of the Gospel of Thomas can be found on the internet, and in many instances, expert commentary is included. This could help in your understanding of the text and how your friend is applying it. I'm sure some of these sites can explain it better than me. It's been years since I read it and my memory is a little fuzzy on this topic as a result.

[the_last_gunslinger]

Of course, many of Jesus' sayings are the same as the canonized gospels, just that the book of Thomas seem to have more of them than were recorded elsewhere.

True. But the biggest problem with these sayings, in my opinion, is the mystic way in which they read. It is difficult to know what one is supposed to do for salvation, as the way in which these quotes are worded are without substance, or physical impossibilities. Take, for instance,

"the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty, and it is you who are that poverty."

We can take stabs at what this means, like we must find the good within ourselves and manifest it outwardly, but the gospel lacks anything in the way of instructing us how to do so, any clear-cut explanations.

It is still a fascinating read, though, and I'm sure there is some truth contained within its pages.

[TheyCallMeMom]

It is still a fascinating read, though, and I'm sure there is some truth contained within its pages.

the best lies are based on truths

[gabelpa]

With my limited understanding and having not read the Gospel of Thomas, it sounds more Gnostic than anything else. I fail to see how not partaking of the Sacrament, meeting with our fellowsaints, etc. can be construed as following Jesus, when we have been commanded to do such things in order to be obedient.

[TheyCallMeMom]

is the Thomas who wrote this the same Thomas the disciple?

[Moksha]

With my limited understanding and having not read the Gospel of Thomas, it sounds more Gnostic than anything else. I fail to see how not partaking of the Sacrament, meeting with our fellowsaints, etc. can be construed as following Jesus, when we have been commanded to do such things in order to be obedient.

Not to mention white shirts and single pairs of earrings.

Mom, Thomas is suppose to be that Thomas.

[the_last_gunslinger]

it sounds more Gnostic than anything else.

Yes, that's exactly what it is, with its primary message being that we can know God fully while on this earth if all we do is search for Him.

[TheyCallMeMom]

Mom, Thomas is suppose to be that Thomas.

ok becasue I have read that it was and that it wasnt..

[Moksha]

It is always hard to know, since all the gospels were written way later. However I have been willing to accept that they could have come from the author on an "as told to" basis.

[Hemidakota]

A friend of mine inquired about a movie she had just seen "stigmata" and the gospel of Thomas..

I know very little about either.. Stigmata is vague as I grew up catholic but didnt really pay attention..

some truth for her , and myself, would be appreciated

I do believe that every Apostle called may had written there version of the earlier church. But, you have already seen in the NT collection, we missing several of the Apostles writings. Whether they were lost or the earlier council did not consider them to canonized.

The Gospel of Thomas is part of the Nag Hammadi Codice, which was found in late 1945, a collection of thirteen papyrus books was discovered in a jar buried near the town of Nag Hammadi in Upper Egypt. These thirteen books, or codices, contained a total of forty-four separate works written in the Coptic language. Most of these date from between the late second and early fifth centuries a.d. and are the product of a kind of Christianity called Gnosticism.

The terms Gnosticism and Gnostic come from the Greek word for knowledge (gnosis). While not all Gnostics believed the same things, the Nag Hammadi Codices confirm that most believed salvation was determined more by what one knew than by what one did. In fact, many Gnostics believed that good works were of little value and that the proper function of religion was to teach a knowledge (gnosis) of secret mysteries.

Some Gnostics rejected the Old Testament scriptures (as in The Second Treatise of the Great Seth 63:17ff), and most revised or reinterpreted them. A common element in the Nag Hammadi codices, for example, is the identification of Jehovah with the devil (Apocryphon of John 13; On the Origin of the World 103), and the consequent reversal of the Old Testament perception of good and evil (as in the Testimony of Truth 46–48). Thus, many Gnostics believed that the serpent was the hero and Jehovah was the villain in the Garden of Eden (Hypostasis of the Archons 88–89; On the Origin of the World 118–119). It followed from this that those who obeyed God were evil, and those who disobeyed him were good (as in the Apocalypse of Adam and the Second Treatise of the Great Seth 62–64).

Many Gnostics denied the true humanity of Jesus and the reality of his death and resurrection (the First Apocalypse of James 31:15ff, Apocalypse of Peter 81–3, and the Book of Thomas the Contender 143:10ff). Since they believed that salvation was determined more by knowledge than by behavior, most Gnostics denied the need of any atonement for sins. In most Gnostic documents Jesus is represented not as a Savior but as a teacher of mysteries (as in the Gospel of Thomas).

In spite of all this, a few of the Nag Hammadi writings do show traces of doctrines familiar to Latter-day Saints. For example, the Exegesis on the Soul teaches that the soul came from the presence of God where it lived in a premortal state (133:20ff). The Teaching of Silvanus mentions Christ’s descent into the underworld and his freeing of the captive spirits there (104, 110). The Gospel of Thomas, which is only slightly Gnostic, contains several statements attributed to Jesus which some scholars feel may in fact be genuine, though they are otherwise unknown.

Nevertheless, it is those passages among the Nag Hammadi codices which deal with mysteries and initiations that have generated the most interest among Latter-day Saints. For example, the gospel of Philip describes an initiation in three stages, corresponding to the three chambers of the Jerusalem Temple (69:14ff). In the last stage, which was called the Bridal Chamber, a sacred marriage was performed which was believed to be eternally binding (70:19ff) and which had to be performed in mortality (86:1ff). In the Dialogue of the Savior, Jesus supposedly tells the disciples how to ascend to the Father (120:20ff). And in the Apocalypse of Paul (23:1–25), Paul is represented as vanquishing the hostile ruler of the sixth heaven by showing him a sign and then proceeding on to the tenth heaven. The actual content of the mysteries taught in the Nag Hammadi codices usually centers on the themes of creation and the fall of Adam and Eve (as in the Apocryphon of John).

In the initial excitement over finding some ideas among the Nag Hammadi codices that are similar to those of the Latter-day Saints, some readers have lost sight of a very important fact: though some things are similar, they are never the same. There is not a single passage among the Nag Hammadi codices which could be said to exactly describe Latter-day Saint practices. There is not a single line of text that could be called a translation of Latter-day Saint ordinances. On rare occasions there are similarities, but always there are differences. The reason for this is simple: the Gnostics did not have the Gospel. By the time the Nag Hammadi codices were written, Gnosticism had already been an apostate movement for generations, perhaps even centuries.

There has been a tendency in some Latter-day Saint circles to suggest a direct link between the Gnostics and the true primitive Church. This is impossible, for the Nag Hammadi codices show the Gnostics to have been in some respects even further from the gospel than the post-apostolic “orthodox” church. But just as a Geiger counter can still detect traces of radiation in an empty container that once held radioactive elements, so Latter-day Saint readers can detect traces of departed truth in the empty writings of the Gnostics. Thus, the Nag Hammadi codices are of interest to Latter-day Saints because they seem to demonstrate that certain doctrines and ordinances, whose very existence was denied by later “orthodoxy,” were part of early Christianity. They also provide us with the negative example of a people whose lust for mysteries and secret doctrines caused them to lose the simple truths of the gospel.

As to any of the Gnostic works, you will need the Spirit to guide you in gleaning truths.

Edited January 13, 2009 by Hemidakota

[rameumptom]

The problem with someone wanting to follow the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas is that to understand it correctly and fully, you have to actually study Gnostic teaching. No, you cannot be saved at home under Gnostic teaching.

Gnostics believe in the secret wisdom/knowledge of God (Gnosis = knowledge). The Gnostics claimed to have additional information/wisdom from God that when applied on top of the orthodox teachings, gave an additional level of truth and salvation - similar to our belief that we are saved by baptism, but there is more to be had in the temple.

The goal is to eventually have a personal revelation of Christ, who then teaches you the final secrets, some of which are expounded in the Gospel of Thomas and other Gnostic writings. But their teachings go much further than this, into concepts most Christians and Mormons would reject. I would suggest that your friend be careful about treating sacred things like a buffet, where you can pick and choose which things you are going to eat, as most such people tend to spend all their time at the dessert table. They get their fill, but never get the proper nourishment.

[Hemidakota]

"No, you cannot be saved at home under Gnostic teaching."

Man, where is the laugh button when you need it.

[rameumptom]

"No, you cannot be saved at home under Gnostic teaching."

Man, where is the laugh button when you need it.

Here, have a few smileys instead: :lol::p:D:lol:

While funny, it still is true. I have read the Nag Hammadi a few times over the last 30 years. The first couple times was difficult at times, because much of it is so strange and esoteric. I've finally come to understand their belief system enough that I can now read it and understand it decently, without having brain aneurisms.

There are some of their writings that go directly in line with LDS teaching. The Gospel of Thomas is one of them, as most of its writings are basically statements purported to be of Jesus, many being from the New Testament. I also recommend the Apocalypse of Paul, which has some very interesting ties to the temple, as does the Gospel of Phillip.

But many of their beliefs are very strange. Many of the Gnostic sects believed in two gods, El and Yahweh. El was a mean god that tried to cause Adam and Eve pain and grief. Lucifer was only trying to set them free in the Garden. Yahweh/Christ came to rescue us from El's evil machinations.

Jesus and Christ are two separate entities. Jesus the mortal was chosen by God at baptism ("Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased." Luke 3. *note that it does not say "This is my beloved Son" but is telling Jesus that he is the chosen one), when the Christ/God spirit entered into him. On the cross, Christ leaves Jesus ("My God, why hast thou forsaken me?), as God cannot suffer. For his sacrifice, Jesus was resurrected and blessed, but still is not the Christ/God.

They believed that what was taught in the orthodox Church is true, but that there is a higher truth and way to understand the teachings. This included seeking to have a personal revelation of Christ, where he teaches the individual one on one, as we see occur in most of the Gnostic writings.

Strange enough? Or would you like to know more?

[deseretgov]

More please. Sounds a bit like Iglesia ni Cristo

[TheyCallMeMom]

thats alot of info to digest..

but interesting

[Hemidakota]

What I can add here, you will find some interesting truths written in the Apocalypse of Abraham concerning creational worlds. Hugh Nibley was the one who pointed this out. Later, it only came much clearer to see what he was referring too. :)

[deseretgov]

I've noticed some interesting tidbits in the First Book of Adam.

[rameumptom]

First Book of Adam (and Eve) is not a Gnostic writing. It is an early Christian writing detailing Adam and his family's lives after being cast out of the garden. There are some symbolic temple moments in the story, such as when Adam asks God for some remembrances from the Garden. God sends three archangels to obtain gold, frankincense and myrrh from the Garden, to give to Adam. When they come to Adam, Satan is tempting Adam and Eve, and is commanded out of their presence. They are then given the three "tokens" from the Garden, which tie the Garden with the birth of Christ.

Many early Christian writings tend more towards the orthodoxy of the time. Gnostic writings attempt to transcend the orthodox, and move onto a higher level of truth (as perceived by the various Gnostic groups).

Many of the Gnostic books are difficult to understand without a lot of background guidance, as it uses terms and concepts alien to us. To understand the Pleroma, for instance, as a fulness of God's powers and how it relates to the Aeons and the heavenly abodes, can be very confusing.

Humans are actually spirit/soul beings who have been trapped in physical bodies by El, the demiurge. It is a concept that is very reminiscent of far Eastern Hinduism, where we were all in the well/sea of souls, and drops splashed out of the sea, tossing us into the material world, which is a false/unreal world. Only by following the Gnostic way can we find our escape from this world, and back to the spiritual realm.

There is no resurrection for those of us who escape it.