FlaviusHambonius Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 In one of my areas on my mission the father of a family we ate with was a military man and the former Bishop. He told us while he was Bishop when Sacrament meeting started he would have the deacons close the doors into the chapel area (not the building) and they stayed closed, no one was allowed to come in late, at first there was some complaints, but within a few months church attendance had gone up 40% (if I remember right)So the former Bishop took it upon himself to exclude members from renewing their covenents?Sounds like the former Bishop wasn't getting enough fiber in his diet. Perhaps someone should have informed the former Bishop that this was a Sacrament meeting and not a roll call at Headquarters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KristofferUmfrey Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 So the former Bishop took it upon himself to exclude members from renewing their covenents?Sounds like the former Bishop wasn't getting enough fiber in his diet. Perhaps someone should have informed the former Bishop that this was a Sacrament meeting and not a roll call at Headquarters.Perhaps you missed the part where people got the hint and started showing up on time and attendance began to climb while he was Bishop? Being on time is about showing respect to the Lord and to the other members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abraham Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 In general, and I apologize if I missed this point in a previus post, unless your Bishop directly advises you not to partake of the Sacrament, then you (we) should partake. By not partaking we are negating the effects of the Atonement in our lives and also, though well-intentioned, refuse to repent, because without the Atonment our repentance is in vain. Don't be too hard on yourself. Let's remember repentance is an on-going process for which the Lord, in his mercy and grace has provided the Sacrament so we can be renewed with His Spirit weekly, thought weakly also, so we can be cleansed. Abraham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRaines Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 As I said earlier we should liken the sacrament meeting to attending the temple. You would never think of arriving for a session at the temple late or not dressed properly. Temple is to remind you of covenants made, sacrament meeting is to renew covenants taken at baptism. Both should be very sacred meetings. Not something your un in to during the sacrament song so you can e there and partake. That is my opinion. Ben Raines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaviusHambonius Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 (edited) Perhaps you missed the part where people got the hint and started showing up on time and attendance began to climb while he was Bishop? Being on time is about showing respect to the Lord and to the other members.No, I didn't miss the point, I can read thank you very much.Most members I am sure make it a point to try and make it on time. The point I am making is what gives that former Bishop the right to lock the doors and not let anyone in, when he thinks the members are at fault because they happen to be a minute or two late.Does he own the chapel? Does he have authorization to do such a thing?Case in point:Say my family and me are driving to church in the middle of a snowstorm and we even leave early so we won't be late because of the storm. Because of the road hazards we slide off the road and I have to get out and shovel the snow to get unstuck and then we proceed on our way--we get to the church and rush into the building and are two or three minutes late---only to find that the doors to the chapel have been locked.There are a myriad of reasons and scenarios that could make people a couple of minutes late, once in a great while.So due to the fact that this military mentality Bishop is going to lock the doors on his people that are slightly late and deny those people the opportunity of taking the sacrament is total idiotic BS. Especially if Sacrament meeting is first on the block.No, I think it's much more disrespecful on the Bishops part of denying my family in partaking of sacred ordinances and also disrespectful to the Lord on his behalf. If say I was already in the chapel for instance and I see a single Mother coming in late with three kids, I as part of that congregation would not be offended or feel disrupted--I would think that I would say to myself that here comes a single Mother who had her hands full that particulair morning and did her best---should we lock her and her kids out?---but the way you make it sound is that it is disrespectful or disruptive to other members if perhaps someone comes walking in late. If he wants to set records in attendence, let him do it on the military side when as I said they have roll-call at headquarters.Frankly I have never heard of such a thing---close the doors yes----to lock members out, NO.Leave the machismo military attitude out of the Lords House. Especially if it's to bump up attendance or to give people the so-called hint as you call it, that's not his job---that's our job as individuals. Edited January 18, 2009 by FlaviusHambonius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatDad Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Well I don't think thats right, I think the Doors need to remain open, thats sad that there are people out there who have that mentality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgama Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 As I said earlier we should liken the sacrament meeting to attending the temple. You would never think of arriving for a session at the temple late or not dressed properly. Temple is to remind you of covenants made, sacrament meeting is to renew covenants taken at baptism. Both should be very sacred meetings. Not something your un in to during the sacrament song so you can e there and partake.That is my opinion.Ben RainesThank you Ben what a great way of looking at it, I actually think the Bishop was right too often Latter Day Saints are late for things and think its OK - I was brought up that it was rude, having said that last week we'd have missed sacrament we only barely made it for the opening hymn.-Charley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teancum18 Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 (edited) This is what I have been counseled. Always take the Sacrament unless specifically told not to by a Bishop, Branch President, or Stake President.No, I didn't miss the point, I can read thank you very much.Most members I am sure make it a point to try and make it on time. The point I am making is what gives that former Bishop the right to lock the doors and not let anyone in, when he thinks the members are at fault because they happen to be a minute or two late.Does he own the chapel? Does he have authorization to do such a thing?I don't believe any bishop would do this. This is either a rumor, or a misinterpretation of what really happened. And on the very jacked up case that it did, if it did, I guarantee you that Bishop was reprimanded or removed quickly. Edited January 18, 2009 by Teancum18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgama Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 This is what I have been counseled. Always take the Sacrament unless specifically told not to by a Bishop, Branch President, or Stake President.I don't believe any bishop would do this. This is either a rumor, or a misinterpretation of what really happened. And on the very jacked up case that it did, if it did, I guarantee you that Bishop was reprimanded or removed quickly.The Bishop was using the inspiration his calling allowed to sort out a problem in his ward why is that so wrong? Actually I am seeing wisdom in his decision, its like when my friend's Dad who owned a shop decided to close at 7pm instead of 10pm, Mum asked him did it inconvenience people he said nope same people that come in at 9:50pm now come in at 6.50pm instead.I know in some wards they have Usher's work and make people who are late wait for an appropriate break, and I know myself I would make extra effort not to be those 2 minutes late OR I would phone ahead to let Branch President know why.-Charley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teancum18 Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Well, at least that makes a little.... more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KristofferUmfrey Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 This is what I have been counseled. Always take the Sacrament unless specifically told not to by a Bishop, Branch President, or Stake President.I don't believe any bishop would do this. This is either a rumor, or a misinterpretation of what really happened. And on the very jacked up case that it did, if it did, I guarantee you that Bishop was reprimanded or removed quickly.No rumor or misinterpretation. He told us that himself. And he served as Bishop for many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KristofferUmfrey Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 No, I didn't miss the point, I can read thank you very much.Most members I am sure make it a point to try and make it on time. The point I am making is what gives that former Bishop the right to lock the doors and not let anyone in, when he thinks the members are at fault because they happen to be a minute or two late.Does he own the chapel? Does he have authorization to do such a thing?Case in point:Say my family and me are driving to church in the middle of a snowstorm and we even leave early so we won't be late because of the storm. Because of the road hazards we slide off the road and I have to get out and shovel the snow to get unstuck and then we proceed on our way--we get to the church and rush into the building and are two or three minutes late---only to find that the doors to the chapel have been locked.There are a myriad of reasons and scenarios that could make people a couple of minutes late, once in a great while.So due to the fact that this military mentality Bishop is going to lock the doors on his people that are slightly late and deny those people the opportunity of taking the sacrament is total idiotic BS. Especially if Sacrament meeting is first on the block.No, I think it's much more disrespecful on the Bishops part of denying my family in partaking of sacred ordinances and also disrespectful to the Lord on his behalf. If say I was already in the chapel for instance and I see a single Mother coming in late with three kids, I as part of that congregation would not be offended or feel disrupted--I would think that I would say to myself that here comes a single Mother who had her hands full that particulair morning and did her best---should we lock her and her kids out?---but the way you make it sound is that it is disrespectful or disruptive to other members if perhaps someone comes walking in late. If he wants to set records in attendence, let him do it on the military side when as I said they have roll-call at headquarters.Frankly I have never heard of such a thing---close the doors yes----to lock members out, NO.Leave the machismo military attitude out of the Lords House. Especially if it's to bump up attendance or to give people the so-called hint as you call it, that's not his job---that's our job as individuals."Me thinks thou doth protest too much." Your reaction is too strong. Are you on perpetual MST (Mormon Standard Time)?He wasn't trying to set attendance records he was trying to teach responsibility and he did just that. If you know the weather conditions are bad, you could always leave home earlier (although I'm sure some exceptions were made in such cases). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgama Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 If he wants to set records in attendence, let him do it on the military side when as I said they have roll-call at headquarters.Frankly I have never heard of such a thing---close the doors yes----to lock members out, NO.Leave the machismo military attitude out of the Lords House. Especially if it's to bump up attendance or to give people the so-called hint as you call it, that's not his job---that's our job as individuals.Its his job as leader of his Ward to do what is right for the Ward. In this case it was obviously a problem that needed help with, maybe reverence was so bad it was disturbing other's reverence. Also we don't know what order the service's were in was sacrament first or last?/ If a mother with 3 kids is coming in late every week how about someone offering to help get her there on time, maybe bring a bag for the children with entertainment or snacks in it. If someone did that for me I would never be late - or maybe offer to help organise her on a Saturday nightIf people work together there should be very few instances were people have to be late.-Charley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbaldguy Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Wow, this discussion has got a little off topic......Sorry to sound like a mod, I have experience at that on other Web forums.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRaines Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Happens a lot like this Superbaldguy. People have strong opinions and as long as those opinions are not personal attacks, get me hint folks, not personal attacks on the poster then they are allowed to remain. It would be a good idea to get back on track with the Origianal Post. Ben Raines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbaldguy Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Good discussions all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatDad Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I guess I need to stop reading the forums or just read them and not reply It seems like I get in trouble I have participated in other forums but this is the first for a forum in this nature. Sorry if I wrote something that someone did not like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbaldguy Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 We call can get carried away and a little OT, it happens to me a lot on the Web forums. If it happens, again, the Mormon police will come to your home...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRaines Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 No harm no fouls seen here yet. Don't think about it CatDad. Ben Raines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatDad Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Thanks for the return reply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgama Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Happens a lot like this Superbaldguy. People have strong opinions and as long as those opinions are not personal attacks, get me hint folks, not personal attacks on the poster then they are allowed to remain.It would be a good idea to get back on track with the Origianal Post.Ben Raines OK Ben I need to go back and remind myself what it was actually would it be too far off topic to ask what people do to focus more fully on Christ during sacrament - I do some things like take notes etc but with 2 young children who work really hard at sitting still I find the focus is more on them than the Lord -Charley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgama Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I guess I need to stop reading the forums or just read them and not reply It seems like I get in trouble I have participated in other forums but this is the first for a forum in this nature. Sorry if I wrote something that someone did not like hehe don't stop posting your views it would be very dull if we all felt the same if it helps my first gut reaction was the same as yours, then I read what Ben had to say, and remembered the friend with the Dad that had a shop, and if I had posted my first thought I'd be needing to argue with myself again.-Charley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatDad Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Well I probably would not have stopped, I posted that disclaimer this morning after not sleeping well, and I just did not want to deal with someone that wanted more than one line of thought, thats all I could post at the time Thanks Elgama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MobyMule Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 So the former Bishop took it upon himself to exclude members from renewing their covenents?Sounds like the former Bishop wasn't getting enough fiber in his diet. Perhaps someone should have informed the former Bishop that this was a Sacrament meeting and not a roll call at Headquarters.I do the same thing. Except we open the doors to the chapel once the sacrament has been passed. This came from our Stake Presidency. The reason behind this was people walking in during the sacrament or after the prayers were said and disrupting the spirit of it. If a mother needs to leave during the sacrament we will offer it to her. But it is to teach people that the Sacrament is worth their effort and is important enough to be on time for. As to the original question i think Elder Hollands Talk in our regional stake conference hit the nail on the head. We need to learn to forgive ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 OK Ben I need to go back and remind myself what it was actually would it be too far off topic to ask what people do to focus more fully on Christ during sacrament - I do some things like take notes etc but with 2 young children who work really hard at sitting still I find the focus is more on them than the Lord -CharleyIt is a reminder to the Marines when I attend Sacrament that our focus is the Jesus Christ and the Atonement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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