Contradictions between The BoM and the Bible?

[Just_A_Guy]

If something is divinely inspired, that means God said it.

Ah. Therein lies our disagreement.

I would say that if something is divinely inspired, it means that God said it to a man, who interpreted it according to his own experiences and conveyed it the best way he knew how in a writing that later had to be transcribed by another man, and even later re-interpreted by yet another man

[Cydonia]

You don't have to jump between testaments or books to find possible contradiction. Many people see Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 as contradictory.

[AngelLynn]

Interesting stuff. Etymology is fun.

Genesis 3:16 says

"To the woman he said,

'I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;

with pain you will give birth to children.

Your desire will be for your husband,

and he will rule over you.'"

Which seems to suggest reproduction was possible before, but in a very different way. The pains were increased, meaning they were less before...suggesting they existed before?

I agree etymology is fun.

I have no idea what type of reproduction would be avaliable before, but maybe that's something we will not figure out till all the books are open and all the answers are given.

Sort of reminds me of my mom, and what she told me when she gave birth to me. She asked my father to give her a priesthood blessing to help her in childbirth and the blessing given to her was that her pain would be lessened. She likes to laugh over it but before she gave birth she fell asleep and the nurse had to wake her up to tell her that it was time to give birth.

Edited February 15, 2009 by AngelLynn

[Justice]

Interesting stuff. Etymology is fun.

Genesis 3:16 says

"To the woman he said,

'I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;

with pain you will give birth to children.

Your desire will be for your husband,

and he will rule over you.'"

Which seems to suggest reproduction was possible before, but in a very different way. The pains were increased, meaning they were less before...suggesting they existed before?

Or, maybe it was physically possible, since they had physical bodies, but they just didn't know how. I never said it wasn't physically possible, but that they couldn't have children... meaning they didn't know how.

Before the fall they knew no pain or suffering. After the fall their physical bodies felt pain and suffering, so it would be increased for sure.

Besides, I stick with the KJV instead of someone's interpretation of what was meant. It's not clear exactly what kind of pain it's talking about:

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Sorrow can be interpreted as physical pain, and by the words it seems it was part of what was meant. But, I don't believe that was the main point God was making.

[Cydonia]

Besides, I stick with the KJV instead of someone's interpretation of what was meant.

Ummm....?

[rameumptom]

I laughed at Justice's statement, also. The KJV is the interpretation from 52 scholars, a camel, if you will. (Camel is a horse designed by committee).

I'm still waiting for Dymm to answer my questions. While at it, perhaps you could explain how Hebrews 6:1-2, on how Paul can tell us to leave the doctrine of Christ and go onto greater perfection. How is that possible, if Christ and his doctrine are perfect?

[Dymmesdale]

Now, why don't you ask us some of the issues in the Book of Mormon that actually disagree with doctrine in the Bible? I've given strong evidence for your previous issues, and you have not chosen to respond to hardly any of it. An honest person would acknowledge when evidence is given, when it has been asked for. I showed how the "land of Jerusalem" was correct, for instance. You have not admitted we were right on this. It would show you are serious about an actual discussion, if you were to acknowledge when the other side has given a valid statement, as I acknowledged your statement above.

I apoligize for not acknowledging your land of Jerusalem explanation. That makes sense and I rescind my accusation of contradiction on that account.

All of the submitted contradictions within the Bible itself are great places to start a conversation, and I need to do a bit of extra research about them. I think I will start a new thread and list the examples given since my last post.

[Dymmesdale]

We have three options for the Bible: 1. Is it God-breathed with no imperfections? 2. Is it inspired, but not perfect due to translations and the language of men? 3. Is it all made up, and not inspired whatsoever?

My view tends to be somewhere in between 1 and 2. If something is divinely inspired, The Holy Spirit led the author in what to write. The words given to the author come directly from God, and He said that His Word shall persevere forever. I suppose it is possible for minor discrepancies in translation and transcription to exist, but personally I trust that the Word of God has remained intact throughout the ages.

[Maxel]

I apoligize for not acknowledging your land of Jerusalem explanation. That makes sense and I rescind my accusation of contradiction on that account.

All of the submitted contradictions within the Bible itself are great places to start a conversation, and I need to do a bit of extra research about them. I think I will start a new thread and list the examples given since my last post.

Quick question- do you know what direction you want to take? Are you attempting to prove the BoM/Bible false because 'contradictions' exist within; do you want to point out contradictions and merely have them discussed?

Of course you're quite welcome to start a new thread, but I suggest stating the reason for doing so beforehand so we know what to expect. I appreciate your acknowledgment of the 'land of Jerusalem' situation, and I look forward to discussing the Bible with you!

[Dymmesdale]

Quick question- do you know what direction you want to take? Are you attempting to prove the BoM/Bible false because 'contradictions' exist within; do you want to point out contradictions and merely have them discussed?

Of course you're quite welcome to start a new thread, but I suggest stating the reason for doing so beforehand so we know what to expect. I appreciate your acknowledgment of the 'land of Jerusalem' situation, and I look forward to discussing the Bible with you!

I believe that the Bible is true, and intend to defend that belief if necessary. I am curious to see which contradiction will be brought to the table, and how they are resolved, or defended.

I really wish to discuss, and I will reiterate my intent in the initial post of the new thread.

[Maxel]

I believe that the Bible is true, and intend to defend that belief if necessary. I am curious to see which contradiction will be brought to the table, and how they are resolved, or defended.

I really wish to discuss, and I will reiterate my intent in the initial post of the new thread.

Well, you won't see anyone attacking the Bible from the LDS community! At least, you shouldn't... We all believe in it as well.

[Justice]

I laughed at Justice's statement, also. The KJV is the interpretation from 52 scholars, a camel, if you will.

The reason I use the KJV is because the prophet Joseph Smith rendered a translation of much of it from revelation, much like he did the Book of Mormon. If I see something I don't understand, or puizzling, I can turn to his translation of the KJV and it will help me see what was meant by the original. No other version of the Bible offers this to me. And, because of the JST (Joseph Smith Translation) I can often see where more modern versions have misinterpreted things.

I apologize for my poor wording, I often forget non-LDS don't know some of the reasons we do things. I'll try to do better describing instead of making blanket statements.

[rameumptom]

Well there is a major difference between the KJV and the JST. They are not the same. As it is, Joseph Smith stated that the German Bible is more correct than the KJV, but used it, since it was the most common version in his day in English.

[rameumptom]

I also believe in the Bible. It is inspired of God. And the key concepts have endured. However, there are some major discrepancies in it. I believe that as the writings were given by inspiration of the Holy Ghost, they were doctrinally correct. However, centuries, translations, and political intrigue between various religious factions have watered down the Bible in many ways.

Professor Bart Ehrman, a New Testament scholar, notes in one of his several books on the NT that of all the manuscripts we have available up through the creation of Gutenberg's printing press, there are more differences than there are words in the New Testament itself!

He explains that there were various factions vying for supremacy of Christianity in the early years of the Christian Church. These included what he calls the proto-orthodoxy and several Gnostic sects. Many religious books were available in the early Christian era, many of which were used by the proto-orthodoxy, while others were used by Gnostics. The Gnostics primarily used the gospel of Luke, as it seemed to support some of their tenets (Jesus and Christ are two separate beings, with the mortal Jesus being filled with the God Christ at his baptism - You are my Son, today I have chosen you; and then Christ leaving Jesus on the cross to suffer alone - My God, why hast thou forsaken me?). Many pseudo-prophetic books were written in this timeframe to support one side or another. There were many apologists/defenders for both sides. Origen and Justin Martyr are two examples of early apologists for the proto-orthodoxy.

The New Testament was a variety of books until the 4th century, when St Jerome created the current list. He tossed out hundreds of books for various reasons. One book, the Book of Enoch was used for centuries by Jews and Christians alike. It is quoted 39 times in the New Testament (see Jude for one example). Yet, he tossed it, because its eschatology seemed strange to him. He made some decisions based upon political issues - he almost tossed Hebrews and Revelation, because he could not find a strong evidence of who wrote them, but kept them because the Western Church insisted on it if they were to use his list.

Major issues occur in the Old and New Testament. One of the biggest was a statement added that attempted to prove the Trinity, but is now considered a major interpolation from later writers. It is called the Johannine Comma.

I've mentioned the major error in Hebrews 6:1, where Paul seems to be telling us to leave the doctrine of Christ behind and move onto perfection.

What does this mean? It means that the Bible is NOT perfect. It is inspired. But it does show the importance of having modern prophets and apostles to guide us in which sections are and are not correct.

[Noah18]

First,

Little Children cannot sin, but are Born in Sin?

We are Born in sin or a world of sin, and are influenced by the sins of others as soon as we are Born, and will probably reflect that later in life, but as children we cannot sin, because we don't have a full comprehension of what sin is.

Second,

Multiply & Subdue after or before the Tree of Knowledge

Even though God commanded them to multiply, they obviously didn't comply until after they partook of the "Fruit". Before that , they did not have a full understanding of what God wanted. Genesis shows that they followed that commandment after they partook of the fruit.

Thirdly,

Darkness 3 days or 3 hours?

Well these events are happening at different places, a part of America, and Israel. But it does say the "whole face of the earth". Well each is on a different side of the earth; it is round after all. But if it implies the whole atmosphere ( which they couldn't know or prove anyway) then there is a false translation in one of the texts, probably the Bibles, but that's if you didn't like my other explanation.

And finally (for now),

Perform Passover at Jerusalem only.

Well we are talking about two different groups of people, one who cannot travel to Jerusalem. And at that time Jerusalem was a wicked place, or destroyed. Even so, we don't have a fully detailed description of the Nephites religious practices except that they did observe the law atleast to the best of their abilities. They probably performed a passover like ceremony around their temples or greater cities.

I hope I helped.

[jasper_21]

The scriptures you are referring to are addressing infant baptism. We believe that children are not accountable until they are 8 years old and do not need baptism.

what particular verse in the bible that stated that 8 years old is an age of accountability?

be sure to give an exact verse of the bible and it stated exactly that 8 years old is an age of accountability.

[jasper_21]

First,

Little Children cannot sin, but are Born in Sin?

We are Born in sin or a world of sin,.

what do u mean that we are born in sin? it is mean that we inherit sin

[Elgama]

what particular verse in the bible that stated that 8 years old is an age of accountability?

be sure to give an exact verse of the bible and it stated exactly that 8 years old is an age of accountability.

find me the bible scripture that says it isn't~?

We have further revelation to clarify scripture. I do not see why as Latter Day Saints we should be restricted to the Bible for scripture, its like trying to get through a degree programme using only your high school text books, they will have some value but will not contain the fullness of information necessary.

This is one area that does require clarification having visited many Christian Sects on the search for Baptism its something for which there is no agreement, some insist on baptism at birth some would not baptise me at 10 or 11 because I was too young, some did not do baptism by immersion

-Charley

[rameumptom]

I find it interesting that someone would demand an answer from the Bible, which does not state something. Isn't this proof enough that the Bible, while inspired, is not complete?

Why are there so many baptisms, ages for baptism, and methods of baptism, when Paul said, "one Lord, one faith, one baptism"?

It is because the Bible, while inspired, is NOT complete. The Lord reveals his secrets in a pattern he set up way back with Adam: through prophets and apostles. Paul stated that the Church must continue having prophets and apostles until we "all come to a knowledge of the truth" and so we aren't tossed about by every wind of doctrine given by man (Ephesians 4:11-14). The apostles and prophets are the foundation of Christ's Church, Jesus being the cornerstone (Ephesians 2).

I'm amazed at those who claim the Bible has all the answers, and then ask the Mormons to "prove" via the Bible a new revelation! Well, the Bible states there will be prophets in the last days. Joel states that in the last days people will dream dreams and have visions. The apostle John even predicted the efforts of 2 prophets in the last days at Armageddon. So, the prophetic period is NOT over, as the Bible states it continues.

We believe Ezekiel 37 and Isaiah 29 prophecy of the Book of Mormon, which if they do, then the Bible DOES speak of this sacred book and its purpose in the last days.

So, if that is the case, what is the problem? Are others so intent on saying, "A Bible, a Bible, we have a Bible and have no need for further revelation" that they are willing to tell the God of heaven he is not welcome to reveal anything else to them?

I'm here to testify that the heavens are NOT closed. God still lives and reveals His will through modern prophets and apostles. He is preparing us for the 2nd Coming, and therefore needs the prophets of today, just as Isaiah, Jeremiah, Noah and Enoch were needed in times of old to prepare the world for destruction.

[bytor2112]

what particular verse in the bible that stated that 8 years old is an age of accountability?

be sure to give an exact verse of the bible and it stated exactly that 8 years old is an age of accountability.

The reply is addressing the OP and the scripture that he referenced which is found in the Book of Mormon.

[Hemidakota]

Both the Holy Bible and the Book of Mormon, and I do believe many more will come later as the Savior returns, which testifies of Him and His doings among the various children on this earth. This is the purpose of keeping the written word by the mouths of those who are inspired by the Holy Ghost.

If anyone in any Christian religion believes the Bible is complete needs to reevaluate that assumption and ask for guidance from the Spirit. I do clearly remember that Brother of Jared carried forth the writings of the brethren from Adam to his time. Moses was not even born yet. Then we have Abraham, who also had the brethren writings.

Edited February 17, 2009 by Hemidakota