Contradictions within the Bible?

[rameumptom]

Shooting Star, all of us on this list admire and revere the Bible. We believe it to be God's word. Having said that, we also understand that the Bible has gone through thousands of years of revisions and translations. The Dead Seas Scroll version of Samuel is very very different than the one in the King James Bible, for instance. Which one is true?

I've also noted other issues, such as the Johannine Comma, and how some translations include it, while others have realized it was an interpolation that should not be in the Bible.

Those translations of the Bible that have removed the Johannine Comma, are they seeking to destroy God, or to get the Bible back to its original purity when it came from the prophets' mouths? Personally, I think it is the latter.

Amos 3:7 tells us that God reveals his truths and secrets through his servants, the prophets. For those who only accept the Bible, they are inwittingly telling God that they already have a Bible and need no more of His word. Meanwhile, many of us realize that God continues revealing His truths to mortals, as fast as we are ready to receive those new truths.

God reveals things to mortals. Mortals then must determine what God meant, as best as they possibly can. For this reason there are hundreds of Christian churches today, each interpreting the Bible in their own way. Some believe in baptism, while others do not. Some believe that all are saved, while others believe that most will burn in hell. Some believe in free will/agency, and others believe we are predestined to heaven or hell. Some believe that sinners must repent, while others believe that God will forgive all and save all. Some believe we are saved through faith and obedience, while others believe grace and faith alone are necessary. Some believe that men and women are equals, while others believe that women are to be second class and submissive to their husbands because of Eve's sin. Some believe that the earth is only 6000 years old, while others believe it is billions. Some believe the Flood was global, while others believe it was a local phenomena. Some believe that Jesus was Messiah and Savior, while others think he was only a Jewish preacher. Some think that Jesus is for freedom, while others think he was a communist.

I could go on with all the different views Christians have from the same Bible, but I think this list suffices to show that the Bible needs help. It is inspired, but it still isn't enough to help people to know the actual truths of God. If it were sufficient, then we would all agree on everything.

For this reason, Paul stated that apostles and prophets would still be necessary until the Second Coming of Christ and we all become perfected and one through Him (Ephesians 4:11-14). God set up a pattern in the Bible on how He works. For most of the world's history, people did not have scripture available for reading in their homes. They relied on oral teachings and histories, and those teachings almost always came from the mouths of prophets and apostles. Only in times of apostasy, did the Lord remove the prophets and apostles from among the people (or destroyed the people). All other times, God had inspired leaders to tell them what they needed to do, and how to understand the scriptures they did have available.

We revere the Bible. But as with the pattern set by God, we also revere continuing revelation that clarifies and guides us today. We do not live by the Law of Moses today, because later commandments of God revoked animal sacrifice. There are some Christians that believe we should still offer those sacrifices. Why? Because they do not understand that God can command and revoke as He sees fit. But He can only do this through living prophets and apostles.

Imagine if Peter would have only gone with the instructions he had in the scriptures and in the mortal Jesus' teachings. The gospel would never have gone to the Gentiles, as Jesus had commanded them to not go to the Gentiles, but only to the House of Israel. It wasn't until years after Jesus' resurrection that the gospel was commanded to go to Cornelius and the Gentiles. Peter had to explain this to the Christian Jews in Jerusalem, as they had the scriptures before them commanding otherwise. Imagine if they insisted no new revelations were allowed! The Bible and Jesus' teachings would never have spread throughout the world to bless billions of people.

So it is today. New, modern prophets and apostles are needed with new and modern revelations from God, in order to teach us what God wants from us NOW. The Bible and other scriptures become a standard for us. But modern revelation is required to know how to understand that standard in light of all the changes in the world today.

[ShootingStar]

To be correct, what mission or purpose is it to drive out a advice from the Bible and correct it with a modernized translation, if this is what we call clearer announcement from an Apostle then the Apostle is made substituded as mightier then the Prophet of old with recognition of man, but the verse of Christ is to always be sustained, yes Him the Incarnate Word.

When people say they hearken a truth, and others say it is not a truth, there is many citizens upset, if we would only go through beyond the word itself and embark to the substance of the word of God not the literal compositions of them that contradict each other but the craving thereof from them compositions which are revering the pentecost and muscle-ling with the flesh, then if we see contrary doctrines who say that Christ came for a certain reason of such, rather then what oneself believes, it is more important to accept the person who is praiseworthy pleasing who may contradict you then to shut that person down because even though there may be incorrectness with interpreting, that does not mean that good sentiments do not come across as beliked by different faiths of Christ upholding.

What you have decreed is to me a narration of what could be said on a pulpit. If your heart believes that your genuine God would like you for defending modern translations that seek to outgrow the ancient ones, you are saying that you have just as much as authority as a much prefered Prophet of God, rather someone who is more then a Prophet, this is not to upset you, but this is to let you know that there have been very spiritual elderly men of greatest reverence of all time and if their doctrine is made substituted then their dignity is also. It is well to seek a inspiration from God and if your actions agree with God, then you are a true saint, then you are sustained by the word of God that edifies, if this is so, then you are likened like a Prophet and then if it is suitable, then you can declare the ancient Prophet's verses to be replaced by yours only if God is intrigued so much so with you or anyone else.

The true are free from pandemonium just like the truth sets us all free. Reverence needs to take charge because it is a quickened sentiment that can defeat all sorts of trickery and traps from the devil himself, the word of God is a thing that has narrated many a story but nevertheless, the advice from the spirit of God never has failed.

Edited February 19, 2009 by ShootingStar
Self Defense

[Elgama]

What you have decreed is to me a narration of what could be said on a pulpit. If your heart believes that your genuine God would like you for defending modern translations that seek to outgrow the ancient ones, you are saying that you have just as much as authority as a much prefered Prophet of God, rather someone who is more then a Prophet, this is not to upset you, but this is to let you know that there have been very spiritual elderly men of greatest reverence.

All I can say is I am very thankful to God for President Monson. Makes life, the scriptures and faith a lot less confusing. I am still in awe that I can turn on my CD player and hear a prophet speak words to me. Its great and even better I know nothing has been lost in translation

-Charley

Edited February 19, 2009 by Elgama

[ShootingStar]

I wrote something, maybe it was discarded, but what I proclaimed, was sensitive, what I proclaimed, made measure with announcing that even Prophets are mortals just like Job was reassured to be mortal, what I announced, made measure that Jesus Christ prefers His doctrine before any other human civil leader of all time status.

Jesse-

Edited February 19, 2009 by ShootingStar
Name Indicating For Identity Assurance

[Elgama]

I wrote something, maybe it was discarded, but what I proclaimed, was sensitive, what I proclaimed, made measure with announcing that even Prophets are mortals just like Job was reassured to be mortal, what I announced, made measure that Jesus Christ prefers His doctrine before any other human civil leader of all time status.

Jesse-

President Monson is as much a prophet as Job, or Paul - these mortals were who wrote the Bible, so what we get a General Conference gives us a good idea about how scripture has been made through time. What we get is Jesus Christ's doctrine

-Charley

[ShootingStar]

If you have proposedly agreed that the Bible has unfully written verse and is not fully a compromising book nor the book of Mormon, and later on add on to say by very diverted conversation that the LDS President is just as ideal as them who wrote the Bible nevertheless has capacity to regain the status of God unlike ever before, this sounds to me like a mind not fully made up according to the precept of self because if the Mortal of God is just as good as the Latter day President then this sounds confusing whether the full Gospel has been intactly given as aid according to the narration of a member. Truth for truth, reconcile must be absorbed, not selfishly, but pardonably, not carelessly, but importantly.

I believe in God, I believe in the Holy Spirit to work through Jesus Christ and make Jesus Christ's will guided and sustained by fullest capability. I would rather lean on someone I can make understanding with, otherwise, grappling and rigorous talk needs to take a break for health's sake.

[Just_A_Guy]

ShootingStar, please don't take offense at this, but I find your posts very hard to follow. It appears that you are composing your posts in a foreign language and then translating them into English; but (if you'll pardon my saying so) a lot of the translations contain stilted language or seem to misuse some very nuanced English words.

Lots of us here speak foreign languages. I would respectfully suggest (if the moderators approve) that you submit a post in your native tongue and then allow a native English speaker to translate it, so that we all may understand it a little better.

[rameumptom]

Shooting Star, Jesus told the apostles not to preach to the Gentiles. However, later Peter was commanded to preach to them. Which command is correct, the older command directly from Jesus, or the newer one given to Peter?

God gives and rescinds commands throughout the Bible. The commandments that are of most importance are the most recent ones. The command to build an ark applied to Noah, not our time. The command to sacrifice animals belonged to Moses, not to our time. Those things that have not been fulfilled or rescinded still apply. We still are commanded not to murder or commit adultery, for example.

But God can command and rescind through modern prophets as much as he wishes to do, just as he did in the Bible. Otherwise, we should believe what God told Adam, and toss out anything that disagrees that comes later in the Bible.

God works through living prophets. Jesus rescinded the Mosaic sacrifices. Peter rescinded Jesus' command to not preach to the Gentiles. When God commands through a living prophet, it is the teachings of that living prophet that are God's current mind and will.

You cannot have it both ways. Either God can change his mind through living prophets, as he did in the Bible, or he cannot. If he can, then he can still do it today. If he cannot, then the Bible needs to end with Moses, as anything after him dramatically changes what he gave us.

[Dr T]

Good point Ram. I never thought of that "Not the Gentiles" and then "To the Gentiles is ok." I'll gave to think about that.

[JohnnyRudick]

I also believe in the Bible. It is inspired of God. And the key concepts have endured. However, there are some major discrepancies in it. I believe that as the writings were given by inspiration of the Holy Ghost, they were doctrinally correct. However, centuries, translations, and political intrigue between various religious factions have watered down the Bible in many ways.

Professor Bart Ehrman, a New Testament scholar, notes in one of his several books on the NT that of all the manuscripts we have available up through the creation of Gutenberg's printing press, there are more differences than there are words in the New Testament itself!

He explains that there were various factions vying for supremacy of Christianity in the early years of the Christian Church. These included what he calls the proto-orthodoxy and several Gnostic sects. Many religious books were available in the early Christian era, many of which were used by the proto-orthodoxy, while others were used by Gnostics. The Gnostics primarily used the gospel of Luke, as it seemed to support some of their tenets (Jesus and Christ are two separate beings, with the mortal Jesus being filled with the God Christ at his baptism - You are my Son, today I have chosen you; and then Christ leaving Jesus on the cross to suffer alone - My God, why hast thou forsaken me?). Many pseudo-prophetic books were written in this timeframe to support one side or another. There were many apologists/defenders for both sides. Origen and Justin Martyr are two examples of early apologists for the proto-orthodoxy.

The New Testament was a variety of books until the 4th century, when St Jerome created the current list. He tossed out hundreds of books for various reasons. One book, the Book of Enoch was used for centuries by Jews and Christians alike. It is quoted 39 times in the New Testament (see Jude for one example). Yet, he tossed it, because its eschatology seemed strange to him. He made some decisions based upon political issues - he almost tossed Hebrews and Revelation, because he could not find a strong evidence of who wrote them, but kept them because the Western Church insisted on it if they were to use his list.

Major issues occur in the Old and New Testament. One of the biggest was a statement added that attempted to prove the Trinity, but is now considered a major interpolation from later writers. It is called the Johannine Comma.

I've mentioned the major error in Hebrews 6:1, where Paul seems to be telling us to leave the doctrine of Christ behind and move onto perfection.

What does this mean? It means that the Bible is NOT perfect. It is inspired. But it does show the importance of having modern prophets and apostles to guide us in which sections are and are not correct.

KJV translators relied on a broad variety of resources for the final text but the African texts of Origen and Company were not among them.

The texts that the King James translators used had their sources out of the Antioch area.

Later compiled by Erasmus and Beza.

Bro. Rudick.

Edited February 21, 2009 by JohnnyRudick
After thought;-)

[Aesa]

Anything but the original language is a commentary at best.

[JohnnyRudick]

Good point Ram. I never thought of that "Not the Gentiles" and then "To the Gentiles is ok." I'll gave to think about that.

Ya know Dr. T, As I have pointed out elsewhere, God has given different dispensations to many throughout history.

To Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus with Peter James and John. He gave different instructions to Peter and again different instructions to Paul.

Then in these last days He gave further instructions to Joseph Smith. This dispensation of Gods instructions in which we live today;-)

No contradictions, just progress;-]

Bro. Rudick

[Dr T]

Thank you sir. I've been thinking about this issue tonight instead of talking to my in-laws I've come to the thought, at least for now" that God did not limit his salvation ever since we know that he "wills that no man perish" so it tells me he cares for ALL his creation. Then I started wondering where the idea that God told people not to offer the message to gentiles. Can anyone give me a ref. on that idea? We do see God commanding the destruction of whole cities ok, so there's that part and I sort of remember it being so that he could save people from being infested by false gods. I think it has always been God's plan

[Dr T]

oops it posted for some reason but I was saying it was his plan to reach out to everyone and so I do not think he changed his mind on this topic. I'd really like to hear people ideas on this. Thanks

[JohnnyRudick]

Thank you sir. I've been thinking about this issue tonight instead of talking to my in-laws I've come to the thought, at least for now" that God did not limit his salvation ever since we know that he "wills that no man perish" so it tells me he cares for ALL his creation. Then I started wondering where the idea that God told people not to offer the message to gentiles. Can anyone give me a ref. on that idea? We do see God commanding the destruction of whole cities ok, so there's that part and I sort of remember it being so that he could save people from being infested by false gods. I think it has always been God's plan

This was the Dispensation of the Gospel of God to Jesus and Peter before He sent Paul to the Gentiles.

Matthew 10:5 "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them,

saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of

the Samaritans enter ye not:"

Bro. Rudick

[Dr T]

Thank u for that verse Sir. That's an interesting verse that I need to look at closer. I do remember Paul on the road to Demascus when he was approached by Jesus. hmmmm-intereting. I wonder why he told them to not go that way. I'll look more at that some time soon. Anybody else have any ideas about that?

[rameumptom]

The Gentiles (especially the Samaritans, who were part Gentile, part Israelite) were considered unclean. There were many things Jews could not do in conjunction with Gentiles, including eating with them under certain circumstances.

One Gentile/Canaanite woman asked Jesus to heal her daughter, and Jesus refused, stating that the dogs did not eat at the Master's table. The woman insisted, saying even the dogs ate the scraps that fell to the ground. Only then did Jesus heal the child. But it doesn't excuse the fact that Jesus called them "dogs", which is a major pejorative even to this day in the Middle East.

Matthew 15

21 ¶ Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs.

27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.

28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

[Dr T]

I've thought about this more today and disagree that "God changed his mind" about it. I think God always had to planned that way and new that the Jewish people would reject Jesus as Savior and always had plans to save as many as possible why else would the great commission say what it did '...and to the ends of the earth." When I have time I'll say my other thoughts and verses that I'd like to share as reasons for why I had diffiuclty when I first started posting above.

[JohnnyRudick]

I've thought about this more today and disagree that "God changed his mind" about it. I think God always had to planned that way and new that the Jewish people would reject Jesus as Savior and always had plans to save as many as possible why else would the great commission say what it did '...and to the ends of the earth." When I have time I'll say my other thoughts and verses that I'd like to share as reasons for why I had diffiuclty when I first started posting above.

You are right.

God knew that the Jews would turn away from His Gospel and that He would then turn to the Gentiles.

Although I wold refer you to the cities of the plain that God intended to destroy with the city of Lot finally settled in.

Abraham was able to turn away Gods wrath to save his nephew Lot and his family.

Genesis 13:7 And there was a strife between the herdmen of

Abram's cattle and the herdmen of Lot's cattle: and the Canaanite

and the Perizzite dwelled then in the land.

Genesis 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I

pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy

herdmen; for we be brethren.

Genesis 13:9 Is not the whole land before thee? separate

thyself, I pray thee, from me: if thou wilt take the left hand,

then I will go to the right; or if thou depart to the right hand,

then I will go to the left.

Genesis 13:10 And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the

plain of Jordan, that it was well watered every where, before the

LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the

LORD, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar.

Genesis 13:11 Then Lot chose him all the plain of Jordan; and

Lot journeyed east: and they separated themselves the one from

the other.

Genesis 13:12 Abram dwelled in the land of Canaan, and Lot

dwelled in the cities of the plain, and pitched his tent toward

Sodom.

Genesis 13:13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners

before the LORD exceedingly.

----------------

Genesis 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and

Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;

Genesis 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have

done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto

me; and if not, I will know.

Genesis 18:22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and

went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.

Genesis 18:23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also

destroy the righteous with the wicked?

Genesis 18:24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the

city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the

fifty righteous that are therein?

Genesis 18:25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to

slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should

be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of

all the earth do right?

Genesis 18:26 And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty

righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for

their sakes.

Genesis 18:27 And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have

taken upon me to speak unto the LORD, which am but dust and

ashes:

Genesis 18:28 Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty

righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And

he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.

Genesis 18:29 And he spake unto him yet again, and said,

Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I

will not do it for forty's sake.

Genesis 18:30 And he said unto him, Oh let not the LORD be

angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found

there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.

Genesis 18:31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to

speak unto the LORD: Peradventure there shall be twenty found

there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.

Genesis 18:32 And he said, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I

will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found

there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.

Genesis 18:33 And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left

communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.

Genesis 19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and

Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet

them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

Genesis 19:2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray

you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash

your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And

they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.

Genesis 19:3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned

in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a

feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.

Genesis 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city,

even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and

young, all the people from every quarter:

Genesis 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where

are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto

us, that we may know them.

Genesis 19:6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut

the door after him,

Genesis 19:7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so

wickedly.

Genesis 19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not

known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye

to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing;

for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Genesis 19:9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again,

This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge:

now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they

pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the

door.

Genesis 19:10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot

into the house to them, and shut to the door.

Genesis 19:11 And they smote the men that were at the door of

the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they

wearied themselves to find the door.

Genesis 19:12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any

besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and

whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:

Genesis 19:13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry

of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD

hath sent us to destroy it.

Genesis 19:14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law,

which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this

place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one

that mocked unto his sons in law.

Genesis 19:15 And when the morning arose, then the angels

hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two

daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity

of the city.

Genesis 19:16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his

hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two

daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him

forth, and set him without the city.

Genesis 19:17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them

forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind

thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain,

lest thou be consumed.

Genesis 19:18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my LORD:

Genesis 19:19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy

sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed

unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain,

lest some evil take me, and I die:

Genesis 19:20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and

it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a

little one?) and my soul shall live.

Genesis 19:21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee

concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city,

for the which thou hast spoken.

Genesis 19:22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do

anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the

city was called Zoar.

Genesis 19:23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered

into Zoar.

Genesis 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah

brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Genesis 19:25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain,

and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon

the ground.

Genesis 19:26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she

became a pillar of salt.

Genesis 19:27 And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the

place where he stood before the LORD:

Genesis 19:28 And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and

toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke

of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.

Genesis 19:29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the

cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot

out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities

in the which Lot dwelt.

Genesis 19:30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the

mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell

in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.

Genesis 19:31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our

father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in

unto us after the manner of all the earth:

Genesis 19:32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we

will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

Genesis 19:33 And they made their father drink wine that night:

and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he

perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

Genesis 19:34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the

firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with

my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go

thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our

father.

Genesis 19:35 And they made their father drink wine that night

also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived

not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

Genesis 19:36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by

their father.

Genesis 19:37 And the first born bare a son, and called his

name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.

Genesis 19:38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called

his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon

unto this day.

I will not go into the story of the talking ass where God changed his mind again for the worse.

I guess it was His permissive Love at work for spoiled children but in both of the cases He allowed against what He said He would do and no good came of it.

We do this with our children.

We say such and such will go on and one or more of our children and maybe even our wife will throw in with the kids and we will give in against our better judgment and most of the times we were right and no good comes of going against our first feelings on the subject.

God is a loving father who sometimes will give into His children even in the Old Testament contrary to the comments of them who do not know Him.

Is this "changing His mind"?

I believe God knows the outcome of all situations.

He will see to it that His will comes out in the end even though slight changes may be made along the way.

I believe it possible that He even for-knew the slight changes would be made along the way but He went on as if they would not in order to allow our free will to be exercised.

Just a thought;-)

Bro Rudick

[Hemidakota]

Looking at the King James Bible, a good friend, who has now passed away, Daniel H. Ludlow, in his book discussed some background concerning the KJV in the Encyclopedia of Mormonism.

King James Version

In various lands where The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been established, it uses a translation of the Bible in the local language. In English-speaking areas, the Church uses the King James (or Authorized) Version (KJV), mainly because it was the basic English text used by the Prophet Joseph Smith and because subsequent Church leaders have approved its use. The Church does not claim that the KJV is perfect, but it is currently the preferred English version and was used in the Church's 1979 edition and later printings of the Bible.

The books of the Bible were originally written in Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek. No original biblical manuscripts exist today, but they were copied and translated into many languages in antiquity. Many early papyri and parchments have survived. From those records, numerous modern translations have been made.

From 1604 to 1611, some fifty-four scholars worked to produce the KJV of the Bible. This was not the first English translation. In 1382, John Wycliffe translated the Bible from the Latin Vulgate; a revised edition was published in 1388. From 1523 to 1530, William Tyndale translated the Pentateuch from Hebrew and the New Testament from Greek. Still later in the 1500s, other translations appeared, including the Protestant Geneva Bible in 1560 and the Bishops' Bible in 1568. The former became popular with the laity and the latter with Protestant bishops. The Catholic Rheims-Douai Bible was finished in 1609 (1582 New Testament, 1609 Old Testament), based on the Latin Vulgate.

In an attempt to heal differences between Anglicans and Puritans, King James I appointed a body of scholars to produce a version of the Bible to be authorized for use in the English churches. They used the best texts available to them, mainly the "Received Text of the New Testament in the multilanguage ("polyglot") editions, presenting the Old and New Testaments in Hebrew and Greek respectively, and other languages. The long and respected line of English Bibles was also diligently compared and used.

The resulting King James Version was published in 1611. Various editions of the KJV appeared throughout the 1600s, which resulted in many printing inaccuracies. The Cambridge (1762) and Oxford (1769) editions featured a revised text, updated spelling, corrected punctuation, increased italics, and changed marginal notes.

Many other English versions have appeared, especially in light of the discovery of additional early manuscripts, beginning with Constantin von Tischendorf's first find at St. Catherine's Monastery in the Sinai peninsula in 1844. These translations have generally endeavored to render the ancient texts into contemporary usage while reflecting the form of the oldest available manuscripts as much as possible.

Latter-day Saints have not made extensive use of these other translations. Many feel that popularization tends to dilute the sacred nature of the Bible. They also find the ancient textual variants to be relatively insignificant, usually not changing the important messages of the Bible, most of which, in any event, are corroborated elsewhere in LDS scripture.

Although the KJV was Joseph Smith's English Bible, he did not regard it as a perfect or official translation; this is why he studied Hebrew and undertook the task of producing an inspired revision of the scriptures. He commented that he preferred some aspects of the Martin Luther translation (HC 6:307, 364), and several other nineteenth-century Church leaders stressed the need for greater accuracy and truth in Bible translations.

Twentieth-century Church leaders have given a variety of reasons for the continued use of the KJV: it was the common translation in use in the English-speaking world at the time of the Restoration; its language prevails in all the standard works; a large number of passages in the Book of Mormon, which parallel the Bible, were translated into the English style of the KJV; the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible (JST) was based on the KJV, with 90 percent of the verses unchanged. All latter-day prophets have used the KJV, and using the KJV in all Church publications has made it possible to standardize annotations and indices.

The KJV is viewed by many as a masterpiece of English literature. It has been called "the noblest monument of English prose," and it is certainly the most influential; its translators "showed great sensitivity," and the result was "destined for extraordinary influence and acclaim" (Speiser, pp. lxxiii-iv). H. L. Mencken praised it as "probably the most beautiful piece of writing in all the literature of the world" (Paine, p. viii).

The KJV is a relatively conservative translation. This is generally a strength, although at times it produces obscure renderings. Moreover, some of its diction is now archaic and ungrammatical in current usage, and it is not consistent in the spelling of names in the Old and New Testaments (for example, Isaiah/Esaias and Elijah/Elias). Identical words in the synoptic Gospels are sometimes translated differently, and some misprints were never corrected (for instance, in Matt. 23:24, "strain at a gnat" should have been rendered "strain out a gnat").

After studying many modern English translations, however, President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., a counselor in the First Presidency, said in 1956 that the KJV was "the best version of any yet produced" (Clark, p. 33). For example, he felt that the KJV translators clearly portrayed Jesus as the promised Messiah and as the Son of God, and accepted the gift of prophecy, the reality of miracles, and the uniqueness of the love of Christ; whereas modern translations have tended to promote naturalistic explanations for divine action, preferred the word "sign" instead of "miracle," and used "love" in place of "charity," and "appoint" instead of "ordain." His views have been influential among most Latter-day Saints. Not all alternative translations, of course, suffer from the problems identified by President Clark.

[JohnnyRudick]

Looking at the King James Bible, a good friend, who has now passed away, Daniel H. Ludlow, in his book discussed some background concerning the KJV in the Encyclopedia of Mormonism.

Agreed.

But I must point out that the main reason, rather we understand why it has worked out the way it has or not, is the fact that the KJB is a line of decent in its authority direct from Antioch where we were first called Christians, to this day.

the Latin Vulgate of Jerome and Origen and company are a different line of decent and without authority.

One from the land of the Apostles in the land of the New Testament.

The other in the land of the south, Where Abraham, Israel, and Jesus came up out of.

Bro. Rudick.

[rameumptom]

I don't think your concept necessarily follows. If Jerusalem had rejected the prophets and apostles, what makes the KJV any better than any other version? The authority is in the individual, not the book.

As it is, there are few differences between the Vulgate and the KJV (not KJB ). And we cannot be assured which used the best versions of the ancient documents, or if they equally used better or poorer versions alike. Why? Because they used traditions and versions that descended in different places. Why would one be necessarily better than the other, simply because it seems to be tied to Jerusalem?

The history of the Bible shows that there were various authors of the current books we now have (J, E, D, P, R). The Dead Sea Scrolls show that there are many books that were considered canon, which we do not have in the Bible today. And it was Jerome, btw, who established the current books we have in the Bible. So, if Jerome was of lesser/no authority, why then did virtually everyone accept his list, including the KJV scholars?

The Latin Vulgate was created by Jerome and others in the early 5th century, using the Septuagint and other early texts. The KJV was written in the 17th century. Is it possible Jerome may have had better access to more ancient texts than did King James' scholars?

Did you know that in 385, Jerome was forced out of Rome and settled in Bethlehem, where he compiled his version of Psalms? Suddenly, we have him in the "authoritative" area translating the OT from Hebrew to Latin. Meanwhile, the KJV was written exclusively in Britain, entirely outside of the realm of the Israelites. Vulgate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course, Joseph Smith's translation of the Bible goes even further abroad, being done overseas, and even without a single Hebrew manuscript available to translate!

So, I wonder how your views on authoritative regions can really matter?

[Dr T]

You are right.

God knew that the Jews would turn away from His Gospel and that He would then turn to the Gentiles.

Although I wold refer you to the cities of the plain that God intended to destroy with the city of Lot finally settled in.

Abraham was able to turn away Gods wrath to save his nephew Lot and his family.

Genesis 13:7 And there was a strife between the herdmen of

Abram's cattle and the herdmen of Lot's cattle: and the Canaanite

and the Perizzite dwelled then in the land.

Genesis 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I

pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy

herdmen; for we be brethren.

Genesis 13:9 Is not the whole land before thee? separate

thyself, I pray thee, from me: if thou wilt take the left hand,

then I will go to the right; or if thou depart to the right hand,

then I will go to the left.

Genesis 13:10 And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the

plain of Jordan, that it was well watered every where, before the

LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the

LORD, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar.

Genesis 13:11 Then Lot chose him all the plain of Jordan; and

Lot journeyed east: and they separated themselves the one from

the other.

Genesis 13:12 Abram dwelled in the land of Canaan, and Lot

dwelled in the cities of the plain, and pitched his tent toward

Sodom.

Genesis 13:13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners

before the LORD exceedingly.

----------------

Genesis 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and

Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;

Genesis 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have

done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto

me; and if not, I will know.

Genesis 18:22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and

went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.

Genesis 18:23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also

destroy the righteous with the wicked?

Genesis 18:24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the

city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the

fifty righteous that are therein?

Genesis 18:25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to

slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should

be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of

all the earth do right?

Genesis 18:26 And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty

righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for

their sakes.

Genesis 18:27 And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have

taken upon me to speak unto the LORD, which am but dust and

ashes:

Genesis 18:28 Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty

righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And

he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.

Genesis 18:29 And he spake unto him yet again, and said,

Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I

will not do it for forty's sake.

Genesis 18:30 And he said unto him, Oh let not the LORD be

angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found

there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.

Genesis 18:31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to

speak unto the LORD: Peradventure there shall be twenty found

there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.

Genesis 18:32 And he said, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I

will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found

there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.

Genesis 18:33 And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left

communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.

Genesis 19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and

Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet

them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

Genesis 19:2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray

you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash

your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And

they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.

Genesis 19:3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned

in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a

feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.

Genesis 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city,

even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and

young, all the people from every quarter:

Genesis 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where

are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto

us, that we may know them.

Genesis 19:6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut

the door after him,

Genesis 19:7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so

wickedly.

Genesis 19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not

known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye

to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing;

for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Genesis 19:9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again,

This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge:

now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they

pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the

door.

Genesis 19:10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot

into the house to them, and shut to the door.

Genesis 19:11 And they smote the men that were at the door of

the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they

wearied themselves to find the door.

Genesis 19:12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any

besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and

whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:

Genesis 19:13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry

of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD

hath sent us to destroy it.

Genesis 19:14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law,

which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this

place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one

that mocked unto his sons in law.

Genesis 19:15 And when the morning arose, then the angels

hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two

daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity

of the city.

Genesis 19:16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his

hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two

daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him

forth, and set him without the city.

Genesis 19:17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them

forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind

thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain,

lest thou be consumed.

Genesis 19:18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my LORD:

Genesis 19:19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy

sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed

unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain,

lest some evil take me, and I die:

Genesis 19:20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and

it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a

little one?) and my soul shall live.

Genesis 19:21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee

concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city,

for the which thou hast spoken.

Genesis 19:22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do

anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the

city was called Zoar.

Genesis 19:23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered

into Zoar.

Genesis 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah

brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Genesis 19:25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain,

and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon

the ground.

Genesis 19:26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she

became a pillar of salt.

Genesis 19:27 And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the

place where he stood before the LORD:

Genesis 19:28 And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and

toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke

of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.

Genesis 19:29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the

cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot

out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities

in the which Lot dwelt.

Genesis 19:30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the

mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell

in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.

Genesis 19:31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our

father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in

unto us after the manner of all the earth:

Genesis 19:32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we

will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

Genesis 19:33 And they made their father drink wine that night:

and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he

perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

Genesis 19:34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the

firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with

my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go

thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our

father.

Genesis 19:35 And they made their father drink wine that night

also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived

not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

Genesis 19:36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by

their father.

Genesis 19:37 And the first born bare a son, and called his

name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.

Genesis 19:38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called

his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon

unto this day.

I will not go into the story of the talking ass where God changed his mind again for the worse.

I guess it was His permissive Love at work for spoiled children but in both of the cases He allowed against what He said He would do and no good came of it.

We do this with our children.

We say such and such will go on and one or more of our children and maybe even our wife will throw in with the kids and we will give in against our better judgment and most of the times we were right and no good comes of going against our first feelings on the subject.

God is a loving father who sometimes will give into His children even in the Old Testament contrary to the comments of them who do not know Him.

Is this "changing His mind"?

I believe God knows the outcome of all situations.

He will see to it that His will comes out in the end even though slight changes may be made along the way.

I believe it possible that He even for-knew the slight changes would be made along the way but He went on as if they would not in order to allow our free will to be exercised.

Just a thought;-)

Bro Rudick

Great examples and something I thought about while I was considering this issue a couple of days ago. I took down so notes on my thoughts and I hope I left them in my Bible for further exploration. I hope they are there then I can come back to this thread (if I can remember which tread it is hahaha) and list more of my thoughts.

[JohnnyRudick]

I don't think your concept necessarily follows. If Jerusalem had rejected the prophets and apostles, what makes the KJV any better than any other version? The authority is in the individual, not the book.

As it is, there are few differences between the Vulgate and the KJV (not KJB ). And we cannot be assured which used the best versions of the ancient documents, or if they equally used better or poorer versions alike. Why? Because they used traditions and versions that descended in different places. Why would one be necessarily better than the other, simply because it seems to be tied to Jerusalem?

The history of the Bible shows that there were various authors of the current books we now have (J, E, D, P, R). The Dead Sea Scrolls show that there are many books that were considered canon, which we do not have in the Bible today. And it was Jerome, btw, who established the current books we have in the Bible. So, if Jerome was of lesser/no authority, why then did virtually everyone accept his list, including the KJV scholars?

The Latin Vulgate was created by Jerome and others in the early 5th century, using the Septuagint and other early texts. The KJV was written in the 17th century. Is it possible Jerome may have had better access to more ancient texts than did King James' scholars?

Did you know that in 385, Jerome was forced out of Rome and settled in Bethlehem, where he compiled his version of Psalms? Suddenly, we have him in the "authoritative" area translating the OT from Hebrew to Latin. Meanwhile, the KJV was written exclusively in Britain, entirely outside of the realm of the Israelites. Vulgate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course, Joseph Smith's translation of the Bible goes even further abroad, being done overseas, and even without a single Hebrew manuscript available to translate!

So, I wonder how your views on authoritative regions can really matter?

I will apologize in advance.

My thoughts are jumbled and just cannot function as I use-to-could;-)

Good thoughts you put forth though.

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia really has a lot put together.

I wish I had my notes from over the years but a few years ago I went through a thing that left me almost with just my skin and not much else.

But it is not just the geographical situation that I base my belief and knowledge on.

It is the way God has directed history and the facts of the case of the "early church fathers" so called.

Jerome would not settle for translating the Psalms from the Hebrew to the Aramaic, he had to male a Latin copy. Not the Low Latin of the people but the High Latin he was use to writing in.

Useless to the common man of the day.

He was a student of Origen and Eusebius who concocted the so-called LXX that so many have so much pride in.

Yet it was and is shown to be far inferior to the predated Masoretic Text.

The New Testament a compilation of surviving letters from and to leading authorities such as Luke, Peter, John, Paul, Matthew, and Mark had nothing to do with Jerome.

Yes, the Dewey version seems to follow the lead of the KJB, yet you must remember that even though Erasmus thought highly of Jerome God put it into his heart not to use his corrupt texts.

Instead he used the surviving texts of the Apostles which were written in the Greek of the people, the Greek Vulgate, (Not the Latin Vulgate) even though he used the pattern similar to Jerome he did not use his texts. (Influence from a teacher is hard to get away from I guess.)

The manuscripts which Jerome used and the Dewey, the American Standard Version among others all come from the trash.

They found them in the trash.

Why?

Because that is where they were thought to belong.

They were not used by the people and were never meant to be used by the people.

The Manuscripts that Erasmus used were the surviving manuscripts read and used by the people.

Some manuscripts found to be written in about 200 AD match almost exactly to a word with the manuscripts of Erasmus against the compilation of Jerome.

It is suspected that the early church fathers of the cult of Origen corrupted the texts on purpose.

Why do I say that?

I used to know, but now it is merely a warning in your study.

You will find very few Bible Professors who will understand let alone admit the deliberate split in bible genealogy parentage and it's deliberate deceptions.

I have tried to lay out the outline of what and why this deception and confusion exists.

If we choose to ignore the conspiracy that exists to confuse the Scriptural history we will never understand the true nature of the beast we are dealing with.

1 Nephi 13:25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in

purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God.

1 Nephi 13:26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve

apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest

the formation of a great and abominable church, which is most

abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken

away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and

most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they

taken away.

1 Nephi 13:27 And all this have they done that they might pervert

the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and

harden the hearts of the children of men.

1 Nephi 13:28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone

forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that

there are many plain and precious things taken away from the

book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.

1 Nephi 13:29 And after these plain and precious things were

taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles;

and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles,

yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the

Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest--

because of the many plain and precious things which have been

taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of

the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the

Lamb of God--because of these things which are taken away out of

the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble,

yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.

Many today go astray by the changes of these so-called "fathers".

There is a great big difference between the texts.

Bro. Rudick

Edited February 25, 2009 by JohnnyRudick
After.After thought;-)

[JohnnyRudick]

This subject came up before and so it may be easier for some to find I will go over (and over) it again here.

Many of the so-called errors that we like to point to can be cleared up with a little study.

How many of us have read the Bible through several times?

As we read the errors we thought we found in the past get cleared up and we say WOW! Why did I not see that earlier?

Some verses have problems and there are, don't let me be misunderstood.

But what we call "errors" are most of the time very superficial and a misunderstanding of the time and viewpoint of the writer.

What he knew and perceived at the time of his writing, Remember even many of the writing of Moses is a restoration of the lost writings of Adam, Seth, Enoch, Joseph, etc. Knowledge is lost and restored throughout history and perspectives change.

This dispensation has accounts that differ from the accounts given in the transitional dispensation of the Original 12 and even in the Dispensations of Adam and Moses.

Errors? Not as many as you think if you study and "Rightly Divide" the Scripture.

2 Timothy 2:15

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a

workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word

of truth."

The fact that the King James Bible is quoted as Scripture in the BofM shows that it has the stamp of the Allmighty on it.

It has stood the test of time and the people of this world rails against it just as they do His Church.

They have tried to keep it from the people for over 1500 years and have set up a counterfeit for it and have trouted it out in various forms from time to time to create divisions and diversity.

God inspired the people of Asia (not Africa) and we have to give thanks to God for people like Erasmus back in 1516 into whom the spirit of God (D&C 130:23) moved to lay the foundation for the King James Bible we have today.

In turn it made possible the restoration of the Lords Church to complete His blessing on us.

The four standard works of the Church can be depended on and is "profitable" (2 Timothy 3:16) for true accurate information on Gods dealings with His children from before the foundation of the worlds.

2 Timothy 2:15 teaches us that we must "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth." One who rightly divides God's words to you gives you a better chance that the man trying to teach you from them is "approved unto God".

The world will try to make him feel ashamed, but he knows before God he does not have to be.because he "rightly divides" God's words to you.

If one comes to you a friend, stranger or even one called a preacher, and he does not understand the concept of rightly dividing God's words, you do not take stock in that one but find one who can.

I do not profess to be scholarly in the least way.

I just profess a love for and a need to continue studying the Scriptures as they stand.

God in His Infinite goodness has preserved and kept His words in the possession of His people.

I know that God has promised to preserve His words, and His church has NEVER been without the guiding protection of the words of Almighty God who is able to perform that which He has promised.

God has raised up men throughout history to do this work.

He gave us an English Bible, And through that Bible He raised up a man who He used to restore His Church.

He did this through a King James Bible.

All other bibles are mearly versions of the above, taken from a corrupt line of desent. They are illegitimate children of a wayward wife.

The KJB has a pure line of desent.

It is the one quoted in Scripture to varify Scripture.

It is the only line of decent you can trust.

It is "perfect in His generations" Just as Noahs desent was perfect, and a pure genitic pool for man kind, so is our English Bible a Pure stream of LIVING WATER from God down through the centuries. (John 4:13&14)

Now lets look at some Scripture. "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who hold the truth in unrighteousness." (Romans-1: 18)

O taste and see that the lord is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in Him. (Psalm 34:8)

Isaiah 40:8 "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand forever."

Some may ask."What is the interpretation of this verse?" What makes you think you have a right TO interpret what God says?

You don't interpet Scripture.

You can expound upon Scripture.

You can s-t-r-e-t-c-h it out and preach on one verse all night long.

BUT you tell what it says.

THE SCRIPTURE SAYS (ROM.9:17,10:11,11:2.)

You say "O that's just coincidence.

The Scripture can't REALLY SPEAK.

Are you an unbelieving heathen?

Not only can the Scripture speak but the Scripture is a Prophet.

Look with me at Gal. 3:8. "And the Scripture, forseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith,..."

So the Scripture also is a prophet for those who believe the Scripture.

And the words are revealed to you through the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Ghost is a revealator. John 16:7-13, 1Cor.2:15.

The Holy Ghost reveals the written words of God.

The words of God are Scripture.

And the Scripture cannot be broken. (John10:35)

Note. Look how many times the bible perversions say Holy Spirit along with the use of the churches of this world.

Also look at our correction of the term that corresponds with the KJB in our prayers as in Baptism.

Amen?

Again as I wrote somewhere else;

They are the text from the Vatican library, and from a waste basket in a monastery near Mt. Sinai.

These texts were developed by a scholar named Origen of Alexandra Egypt.

With the help of the likes of Irenaeus, Aquilla and Cyprian.

The contents of these Manuscripts were had by the King James translators in the form of Jerome's Latin version of the Bible and the Rheims bible from France.

We are told by most sources today Jerome translated from the Hebrew.

Yet his translation agrees with the Corrupt texts the above scholars, yet against the Masoretic text of the Hebrews.

Yes, Jerome's Latin Vulgate did agree with the 1582 Rheims version.

The King James translators knew better then to use these translations as they knew they were based on leavened manuscripts.

Most of the Scholars today know better also, yet...

These corrupt texts were had from Egypt. Alexandria Egypt.

Two Choices.

The source of these corrupt, leavened bibles we are buried in today is Alexandrian philosophers.

They've had a very comfortable existence.

Through out history they have been under the protection of the Roman Church.

Or;

The "SYRIAN" or Byzantine text which is identical I'm told with the prevalent Greek text of the Middle Ages; It is NOT the Latin Vulgate!

It is the Greek Vulgate of the first and second centuries, and it stands in opposition to the EGYPTIAN texts, of the Vaticanus-B which the other Vatican manuscripts agree the most with, the ( being the best represented of them.

It was the Syrian text which had it's beginnings in Antioch Syria.

This is the Bible.

This is the Book quoted by God in the Book of Mormon.

It leaves a trail of blood that can be traced through-out history.

From where they were first called Christians, Acts 11:26, to "the end" this trail crimson trail is easily traced.

The old common Latin (not the high Latin of the scholars) of the Donatists, Montanists, Novatians, and Waldenses survived against persecution beyond belief.

The King James translators had three of these Bibles.

They had the works of Beza, Erasmus, and Stephanus, the Complutensian and the Antwerp Polyglots.

These Masoretic, Syrian and the Ana-Baptist Bibles all stood together against the Vatican bibles of France, Rome, and Egypt.

The King James translators were much more cautious then modern Bible perverters.

Our man at the beginning of this article for instance.

Origen's Hoax

Origen's first work in "Textual Criticism" was his famous Hexapla.

That is Hex- app-le.

I call it a Hex apple.

Of course it was a six column language comparison of translations.

The first column contained what was left of the Masoretic text after Origen and friends got through with it.

The second column was a Greek transliteration of the first column.

The third contained the Greek version of a man named Aquilla.

He is the man that gave us the legend of the northern mercenary soldier named Panther who went to Bethlehem and became the father of a blond blue eyed Jew named Jesus Christ.

He thought the Greek word for "virgin" was a mistake and thought it aught to be Panther. Humm Strange.

The forth column is from a Scholar named Symmachus.

The fifth column is the work of Origen himself.

This was the first Greek Old Testament ever made.

Through Catholic Tradition this Column took on the role of a pre-Christian book.

It was first concocted in the early 200's A.D. Not B.C.

But to this day it is referred to as the LXX or Septuagint by unwary writers.

The only place where 50 can actually be tied to this outside of tradition, is

Eusebius (340 A.D.) had fifty copies of this fifth column published for Constantine and the Church at Rome.

Hence the Vaticanus books, complete with the books of Judith, Tobit, Esdras, Maccabees, the Epistle of Barnabas, etc.

From this we have the Shepherd of Hermes.

A young man watching a girl bathing, and although he loves her "as a sister," she is caught up to heaven to reveal twenty pages of "Biblical" prophecy to him and she rebukes him for committing adultery in his heart.

What is this young prophetess' name who is preaching to this young man?

She is Lady Dame.

And since she has been assumed up into heaven she has the right to be God's oracle for a dozen pages.

Wescott and Hort say this is one of the "most reliable manuscripts."

Uh-huh.

The sixth column is from one named Theodotian.

He is the one who gave us such memorable scripture as Matt.1:16 "And Jacob the father of Joseph, to whom was betrothed the virgin Mary, was the father of Jesus who is called Christ."

We find this verse in the footnote of the RSV with the comment, "other ancient authorities read..."

This was Theodotian's opinion of what should be there.

He had no authority for that insertion.

So how did Theodotian's opinion of a translation of another version, get to be called an "ancient authority?"

During the time when the Gospel was delivered to Paul the center of Church activity moved from Jerusalem to Antioch, (Acts 11:26.) not Alexandria. It, Antioch, became the starting point for Paul's journeys. Acts 13:1&2.

Also Mark, Barnabas, and Silas, and Peter were there.

If you study the book of Acts it is easy to see that it was Antioch Syria not Alexandria Egypt that was the center of Church activity. (Acts 11:22-30, 13:1-4, 14:21- 27,15:5-35,Gal.2:11.

As a matter of fact no Apostle was ever sent into Egypt.

The Scripture did not tell them to go to Egypt for food.

Egypt has always been portrayed in the Scriptures as a "type" of the world system.

This world system has always been opposed to the things of God. Egypt has always been known as the land of Ham.

Another subject perhaps?

God would not allow Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob to stay there.

South was a very bad direction to travel.

Abraham was to stay in the land and trust God.

Yet he went into Egypt and got him self into trouble. Gen.12: 9-13.

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were not to go to Egypt.

They were to trust God. Gen. 26:2&3.

Jacob disobeyed God and moved his whole family to Egypt.

You say God gave permission for Jacob to go?

Yes, after he had already sent his sons to buy corn and they had already gotten themselves into trouble.

God made a way to preserve them in spite of their disobedience.

They were not to go to Egypt for food.

God would not even let their bones remain in Egypt. Gen.50:25.

Joseph in this account is a "type" of the Lord Jesus Christ who would deliver us from Egypt.

He would even save us even though we went to Egypt on purpose.

But once he has fed us, we must allow Moses (Deut.18:14&15,34:10,Acts 7: 37-41.) to lead us out of Egypt.

Canaan land is not heaven.

It is an "Embassy" of Heaven.

Think about it.

Canaan is refuge from Egypt, but it is not Heaven.

God called Israel out of Egypt. Exodus 3:10. Hosea 11:1.

God called Jesus out of Egypt. Matt.2:14&15.

God calls you and me out of Egypt. Isaiah 30:1.

But the Men of the Bible correctors league tell us otherwise.

Jer.43: 2. "Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin: That walk to go down into Egypt, and have not asked at my mouth; to strengthen themselves in the strength of Pharaoh,"

In the Scripture "Pharaoh" is a "type" of Satan, or the Anti-Christ. "and to trust in the shadow of Egypt!"

How much do you worship Egypt?

We can't get the Words of God from that polluted stream.

Do you send your Children to Egypt for training and counsel?

Oh, yeah. Public School.

Well, that's another story.

"O my children are "lights" to the outside world."

Do you send untrained children into the battle to do the work of a trained soldier?

Plus we are to be lights on a lamp stand, not down there in the midst of the darkness. (Matt.5:15&16.Rev.1: 12-13.

We are to stand apart. (2Cor.6:17&18)

It is easy to see from the Scripture that Alexandria Egypt is not the place God would choose to preserve His words.

It is also plain to see that the Philosophers would not be a people who would not add leaven to the words of God. (Acts 17:18,Col.2:8.)

Egypt and the Philosophers would be the "last people on Earth" you would trust in doctrinal matters as pertaining to the words of a Holy God.

Egypt is the worst possible place you could go for a Bible.

Psalm 1:1 "Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in His law doth he meditate night and day."

Note the progression in this verse.

Progression

1. First you take counsel from the ungodly. You send your children to be "schooled" by these people. I even refer to a "Church" school, or a "Bible" college.

I'm convinced that no matter how well you have trained your children, you send them to one of those places, unless you have "some special child," they will distroy your child's faith in not only the three standard works of our Church but even the Book that they profess to believe in, God's holy Bible!

You have the responsibility of training up your children. (Gen.18:19,Deut.4:10,6:6&7, Prov.22:6.)

Not Egypt.(Isaiah 30:1.)

2. If you do take the councel of the ungodly or have your children to do so, then you find yourself "standing in the way of sinners."

You and/or your children will be walking their walk, and talking their talk.

3. Finally you will be "sitting in the seat of the scornfull."

You or your children will be the teachers of error.

You or your children will be defenders of the ungodly.

"Vice is a monster of so frightful mien, as to be hated needs but to be seen.

Yet seen to oft, familiar with her face,

(1.)first we endure,

(2.) then pity,

(3.) then embrace."

You have the Texts written and edited by Origin and friends in Alexandria Egypt who worshiped Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, Pliny, Plutarch, Herodotus, Marcion, etc.

The source of "leaven" in Jerome's Latin Vulgate (345A.D.)

This accounts for the account of two Latin texts during the "Dark Ages" (599A.D.- 1520A.D.)

Because the other one came up from Antioch Syria, in the Church of Jesus Christ through the hands of the Waldensians, Albigensians, Huguenots, etc. in a trail of persecution and blood.

The other one of Egypt and Rome, and perversions of the Greek text by Jerome, is the text preserved in the monasteries by the Dominicans, Franciscans, Benedictines, and officials of the Spanish Inquisition.

Take your pick.

Later Bro. Rudick