violence on the mexico border

[countrygirl66]

I was wondering what you think of the current (war) my word (violent acts) government word on the border of mexico. Should the national guard be put on the border? Why are the vehicles leaving the us not inspected? in tiauana (sorry spelling) there have been 138 murders so far this year. Kidnappings on the us side of the border are out of control. I haven't seen a discussion on this, maybe I missed it. What do you guys think should be done?

[Palerider]

I just read earlier where Obama is considering sending troops there.....something has to be done...

[countrygirl66]

I guess somewhere in my mind I have always beleived that if something like that were happening on the border of say Utah that the governor would be able to mobilize the national guard immediately not wait until the govt creates a committee to see if they should create a study group to decide if there is a problem.

I guess the last few years america has been a bit fractured for me. Still love my country, but it seems that those minding the store are in a word corrupt and self centered.

Hurrricane Katrina, mexican border, wall street, preditory lending, I just wonder where are the leaders that walk the walk, not just wait to see what we want to hear.

[FunkyTown]

This is surprising to me. Do people really honestly want soldiers deployed as policemen within the US?

I would never have guessed that.

[countrygirl66]

What other options do you know of? I would love another solution, but this situation wasn't taken control of early on so now it is a dangerous mess.

[FunkyTown]

Additional police force? Deputized militia?

When the armed forces become internal police force, that's a bad sign.

[Dravin]

Actually it is my understanding that when called up by a State the National Guard is not considered military for purposes of the constitution prohibiting the military to be used as police (Your deputized militia idea FunkyTown.). If such is the case it should be the states involved (I don't know what is being talked about here, a heads up would be appreciated) to call upon them, not Obama to send them. I could however be wrong.

[countrygirl66]

true. However the regular police force on the arizona border for example spends all their time saving kidnapped victims. The victims are mostly involved in the drug cartels. They are set up in regular neighborhoods where regular people live. The police force doesn't have much choice, because we save anyone we can in our country. (i don't think that is a bad thing) But something has to be done, and noone has any answers. The problem is that the cartels spilling over the border are ruthless, so there isn't much room for negotiation. It has kind of made me think of the gadiantions.

[Islander]

The turmoil is south of the border. There has been a fair amount of violence historically in Mexico on account of the drug trade although localized (Sinaloa, Durango, Michoacan). It so happens that the skirmish is right on the northern part this time and caught CNN's attention. The body count is also increase this time around.

We (the US) should do nothing but keep an eye on the ball. We don't know if this is an intense but short lived criminal enterprise reorganization or a sustained trend. Before we go and spend billions mobilizing troops and equipment we should monitor and reassess periodically until a baseline is established.

[NeuroTypical]

Just to make sure we're all aware of what's going on...

In June 2008, a group of heavily armed Mexican drug cartel gunmen dressed up like a Phoenix Police Department tactical team, and fired more than 100 rounds into a private residence in Phoenix. Part of their getaway plan involved laying an ambush for pursuing police forces. Fortunately, someone was on the job that day, and cancelled the pursuit in time.

That's the most melodramatic of an increasing series of events occuring in places like Phoenix, Dallas, and Austin.

Right now, we're not going to war with Mexico, because all this violence and kidnapping and whatnot is basically affecting the illegal population, as well as drug lords and their families.

Eventually, they might very well start robbing/kidnapping/killing American citizens.

From Stratfor:

The kidnapping gangs in Phoenix that target illegal immigrants have found their chosen crime to be lucrative and relatively risk-free. If the flow of illegal immigrants had continued at high levels, there is very little doubt the kidnappers’ operations would have continued as they have for the past few years. The current economic downturn, however, means the flow of illegal immigrants has begun to slow — and by some accounts has even begun to reverse. (Reports suggest many Mexicans are returning home after being unable to find jobs in the United States.)

This reduction in the pool of targets means that we might be fast approaching a point where these groups, which have become accustomed to kidnapping as a source of easy money — and their primary source of income — might be forced to change their method of operating to make a living. While some might pursue other types of criminal activity, some might well decide to diversify their pool of victims. Watching for this shift in targeting is of critical importance. Were some of these gangs to begin targeting U.S. citizens rather than just criminals or illegal immigrants, a tremendous panic would ensue, along with demands to catch the perpetrators.

LM

[Islander]

That happens all the time in the LA area. A group of thugs dressed as cops (or not) with fake badges raid a drug house to steal the stash and keep the loot. It may or not related to kidnap for ransom.

[a-train]

There is a perfectly constitutional, safe, and cost effective method to deal with the "drug war". Abolish federal drug laws.

Upon legalization, the drug cartels would be put out of business quite instantly. Even if they continued to supply drugs to the U.S., the distribution channels would be direct and transparent. Much of the violence would simply become unnecessary. Alcohol suppliers did not continue to find voilence a practical business activity when the prohibition was repealed in 1933, and it is just as likely that suppliers of other intoxicants would find the same.

The myriad of reasons people harbor for the statist control of what a man can possess and take into his body include statements like: "we must protect children". But the sad truth is that illegal drugs are as much if not more available to children than tobacco and alcohol because of the underground distribution system made possible only by the drug laws.

Others fear that legalization would mean that the whole nation would go into drug addiction. However, most of the people expressing this fear claim they themselves will continue to abstain from drugs if legalized.

I heard one claim that marijuana should remain illegal because they don't want to be exposed to second-hand marijuana smoke. Of course, a national trend banning public smoking has swept the country on the municipal level already and this sort of fear is quite unfounded therefore.

There is nothing in the Constitution granting the federal government the power to forbid the production and consumption of any intoxicants. This is why the prohibition required an amendment. The federal government gets around this by regulating the trade of drugs rather than their use. Possession and distribution are illegal, while being intoxicated itself is not.

The cost of the drug war is impressive. We spend over $18 million dollars a day holding people in prison for possession of drugs alone. These are not accused of any crime other than possession.

With taxpayers losing billions on it and lives being lost in it, the drug war seems mighty expensive in view of the fact that the multi-billion dollar drug industry survives quite well despite it. The UN estimates that the global illicit drug market is as much as 10% of the global retail GDP. Why so high? Mark-up. The profit margin is staggering. Estimated at $13 billion at production, the global illicit drug market has retail sales estimated at $322 billion. What a mark-up! The consumer pays 25 times the production cost! No wonder this business is alive and well.

The huge mark-up is directly the result of the illegal nature of the product. The vast fortunes being built are not going toward honest law-abiding citizens, but mafia-like cartels now able to afford private armies.

I want what is best for my family, my posterity, my neighbors, this nation. Freedom is what is best. An underground system of corruption, deceit, and murder is not in our best interests, such a system is the direct result of the federal war on drugs. We must let the states and localities make their own policies toward these things and keep the liberty crushing federal government out of local affairs.

Abolish federal drug laws.

-a-train

Edited March 13, 2009 by a-train

[Dravin]

The myriad of reasons people harbor for the statist control of what a man can possess and take into his body include statements like: "we must protect children". But the sad truth is that illegal drugs are as much if not more available to children than tobacco and alcohol because of the underground distribution system made possible only by the drug laws.

That just made the following exchange at a 'drug' store pop into my head.

Timmy: I'd like some crack please.

Clerk: Can I see some ID?

Timmy: Er....

I wonder what the warnings on the back of a box of methamphetamine would be...

[Palerider]

That just made the following exchange at a 'drug' store pop into my head.

Timmy: I'd like some crack please.

Clerk: Can I see some ID?

Timmy: Er....

I wonder what the warnings on the back of a box of methamphetamine would be...

I can see it now....I need a newspaper....some lottery tickets and a bag of Booger Sugar.....

[a-train]

It only seems strange because it hasn't been the case in our lifetime, at least here in the U.S. But it is and has been in other countries. It was also perfectly legal in the U.S. at one time also. Back then there were no drug cartels, no drug wars.

-a-train

[countrygirl66]

There is a perfectly constitutional, safe, and cost effective method to deal with the "drug war". Abolish federal drug laws.

Upon legalization, the drug cartels would be put out of business quite instantly. Even if they continued to supply drugs to the U.S., the distribution channels would be direct and transparent. Much of the violence would simply become unnecessary. Alcohol suppliers did not continue to find voilence a practical business activity when the prohibition was repealed in 1933, and it is just as likely that suppliers of other intoxicants would find the same.

The myriad of reasons people harbor for the statist control of what a man can possess and take into his body include statements like: "we must protect children". But the sad truth is that illegal drugs are as much if not more available to children than tobacco and alcohol because of the underground distribution system made possible only by the drug laws.

Others fear that legalization would mean that the whole nation would go into drug addiction. However, most of the people expressing this fear claim they themselves will continue to abstain from drugs if legalized.

I heard one claim that marijuana should remain illegal because they don't want to be exposed to second-hand marijuana smoke. Of course, a national trend banning public smoking has swept the country on the municipal level already and this sort of fear is quite unfounded therefore.

There is nothing in the Constitution granting the federal government the power to forbid the production and consumption of any intoxicants. This is why the prohibition required an amendment. The federal government gets around this by regulating the trade of drugs rather than their use. Possession and distribution are illegal, while being intoxicated itself is not.

The cost of the drug war is impressive. We spend over $18 million dollars a day holding people in prison for possession of drugs alone. These are not accused of any crime other than possession.

With taxpayers losing billions on it and lives being lost in it, the drug war seems mighty expensive in view of the fact that the multi-billion dollar drug industry survives quite well despite it. The UN estimates that the global illicit drug market is as much as 10% of the global retail GDP. Why so high? Mark-up. The profit margin is staggering. Estimated at $13 billion at production, the global illicit drug market has retail sales estimated at $322 billion. What a mark-up! The consumer pays 25 times the production cost! No wonder this business is alive and well.

The huge mark-up is directly the result of the illegal nature of the product. The vast fortunes being built are not going toward honest law-abiding citizens, but mafia-like cartels now able to afford private armies.

I want what is best for my family, my posterity, my neighbors, this nation. Freedom is what is best. An underground system of corruption, deceit, and murder is not in our best interests, such a system is the direct result of the federal war on drugs. We must let the states and localities make their own policies toward these things and keep the liberty crushing federal government out of local affairs.

Abolish federal drug laws.

-a-train

wow I can see we definitely are on different sides of the spectrum. But that being said do you mean to say that because drugs being illegal is too expensive so we should legalize them and just give up? It sounds like drugs being legal would benefit those not using drugs and those caught up in them should just be written off. I am not trying to be combative, but I am trying to understand your thoughts.

My experience - If it hadn't been for meth being illegal my daughter who is now ten could have never been removed from the custody of her mother. Because she wouldn't have been doing anything wrong. She is (partially because of drug use) one of the most dangerous people I have known. Do we just write off those in society that have the misfortune of being born into a mess? I was born into the same mess. Legalizing drugs in my situation as a kid would have given me not means to be removed.

I think it would be hard for the states to each have their own policy. Can you imagine if yours was the state had the most lax laws. You might as well sign your state government over the the cartel.

I do however wish that we concentrated on prevention and treatment. I think we could empty a lot of our prisons if we did. My other concern is that legalizing drugs wouldn't stop the cartels, it would just change who they are. My concern is that they would become politicians and wallstreet guys. California has legalized medical marijuana and it isn't really working. Instead of going to a street dealer, people go to a disreputable doctor and say they are in pain, then they get a perscription and go the the local mary jane shop and tada they have weed. There are medical marijuana shops all over california. It is a doorway drug and I think it will be sad to see the fallout of this over the next 20 years for the state.

My brothers and I were born in the 60's and 70's. It was all about free love and expanding your mind with drugs. While our bio mom and many many fathers were busy having free love and expanding their minds we were born and had no sober adults to raise us. I think legalization would be a quick fix but a long term nightmare.

[ninjormon]

First of all the war is not just south of the border. It is going on probably on the very street that you live on, maybe even the same block if not in your house.(those of you with teens) The violence spilled over from this is purposefull and direct. I have seen this war from both side from the street and leadership levels. Don't think for one second that the majority of the people effected are illegal. There is a plan in place to destroy you as an american and make you pay for it in the process and this is just one of the machinations in place to do it. I could fill up an entire page on this but will suffice with

D+C 38:28 And again, I say unto you that the enemy in the secret chambers seeketh your lives.38:29 Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land

Some people say that this scripture/prophecy has passed but Im telling you it is still applicable.

Legalizing marijuana would be bad, I think that the best way would be to STOP DOING DRUGS. The money will dissapear from the same hands that want you dead. Drug test for federal aid (food stamps, housing...) The reason that the american dollar is worth less (worthless) is because it is all either going overseas/next door or literally being smoked up. I dont remember where in D+C or JS papers but it says that the lamanites will gain power over this country if the people are not righteous, the takeover is happening now through finances and through murderous means. The Book of Mormon has many paralells for this day, rise and fall (pride cycle) i.e. resession/depression/revolution/success/ressession......For those that have seen the paralells of the Gadianton Robbers I think that you/we are right, it is in plain sight for those of us that can see.

For those talking about policing the border there is a political reason why it hasn't happened yet. Our government along with mexican, canadian, and private businesses dont want it policed. And for those of you that haven't been to the border recently the mexican side is better armed than ours is. (or at least where I have crossed)

[countrygirl66]

As far as the border being armed from what i understand that the majority of the weapons are comming from america into mexico. Because we do not check cars going into mexico it is easy to cross into mexico with weapons.

Oh and by the way guess where me and the fam is going on vacation this year? That's right mexico.

As far as drugs being everywhere, I beleive that is true. I have a now 16 yr old that tried it once and we caught him. (Me the mom can't sleep until everyone is home) So he was totally caught.

Punishment from us - Summer grounded, no driving, working 40 hrs instead of 30 for his dad, mom and dad made him turn himself into the police, 20 hours community service, $1000 in fines (his entire car fund), no cell phone, and drug testing by mom and dad with dad watching. Mom contacting the parents of any friends involved. A drug and alcahol evaluation. Liscence suspended.

It has been about a 1 year process for him to go to court, pay his fines, and earn some of his privledges back.

My suprise. Everyone else involved got a lecture by mom and dad and then went on with life. So sad to me but most of them are still smoking weed. My son hasn't since, not because he thinks it is evil, but because it wasn't worth it. At least he has time to grow up and hopefully get it. I was so suprised to have law enforcement, parole officer, therapist, judge, etc. say that they almost never see a kid who is punished by their parents, they all said that the parents can't bear to see them punished and so most wind up in the system after they have an addiction. I wish I knew why that is. My h and I did what our parents would have done to us.

[ninjormon]

As far as the border being armed from what i understand that the majority of the weapons are comming from america into mexico. Because we do not check cars going into mexico it is easy to cross into mexico with weapons.

I wasnt talking about the citizens being armed I was talking about the governments. On our side of the border every twenty miles or so on the main roads we have a couple sherrifs with pistols, and the only thing asked is "are you an american citizen". All someone has to do is say yes to get across. On the mexican side there are soldiers with machine guns or fully automatic weapons.

[prospectmom]

a bag of Booger Sugar.....

Ha HA never heard it called that so funny......... :}