Quantum free will for you science buffs

[gabelpa]

Princeton University - High-powered mathematicians take on free will

The easy version

We can't know the next state of a quantum particle, because it's next state will be the result of one of two possibilities. The next state of the particle, and all other successive states can't be predicted, because the next state can be one of two possibilities. The suggestion is made that these particles have the ability to chose their next state.

Now, for the discussions on what this means to us as religionists and thinking people.

Edited March 20, 2009 by gabelpa
typos & clarification for what it's worth

[Vort]

Princeton University - High-powered mathematicians take on free will

The easy version

We can't know the next state of a quantum particle, because it's next state will be the result of one of two possibilities. The next state of the particle, and all other successive states can't be predicted, because the next state can be one of two possibilities. The suggestion is made that these particles have the ability to chose their next state.

Now, for the discussions on what this means to us as religionists and thinking people.

Nothing.

We have known for generations that we do not live in a deterministic universe. (This was at first perceived as a threat to religionists -- God must not be in charge after all! Absurd, of course, but the media will always express any scientific principle as a threat to the established religious order(s), whether it is or not.) Most religions implicitly reject Calvinistic predestination; Joseph Smith certainly taught that it was false.

The actions of quantum-mechanical particles can be "chunked" into broader atomic and molecular properties, which can be "chunked" into the (macroscopic) properties of bulk materials, which can be "chunked" into system interactions that we observe, and so on up the line. Concepts like agency and "free will" are many levels of chunking up from the actions of quantum-mechanical particles. In my view, no straight line can be drawn between base-level concepts like quantum state and high-level concepts like free will.

[Hemidakota]

How do we know, we are not part of an atomic properties inside of another glorified being?

"By saying "two different positions," Conway means that a particle is free to zip one way or another as he is equally unbound in deciding whether or not to drop a cup he is clasping."

This is not correct. There is order and there is laws given to all lower or higher kingdoms. Each kingdom is govern by a Supreme Bering. Was not Joseph Smith that stated this fact? Agency is given to all intelligences at all levels but there is a limit and boundary within each sphere they can operate. We see this is quite evidence in the Book of Abraham when each period of creation was given its parameters and the GODs waited until they obeyed. If not, the creational period would be removed and repeated. This is why the Earth failed in the last creation in the Animal period of creation and needed to be repeated.

However, an experimenter's choice of spin direction to measure cannot be communicated faster than the speed of light. (This is the "fin" axiom.) Another baseless assumption. If that was the case, what is the distance from our known solar system and the center of the our galaxy? How can I receive a response from GOD after a tearful prayer in minutes? Light Speed is not relevant for Celestial Beings and there is an higher physical property that exists. Even when the Godhead comes to the world, how long would it take for them to come here? We assume but what we assume is not correct. As with the Big Bang is more fable than truth as the known universe is not infinite.

I do agree Vort statement, "but the media will always express any scientific principle as a threat to the established religious order(s), whether it is or not.)"

However, worthy reading....thanks

[gabelpa]

It is a good read, and actually doesn't do a bad job of keeping the principles discussed at a level that can be better consumed by the general public.

I liked the quote from Kochen,

And we've found that, from moment to moment, nature doesn't know what it's going to do. A particle has a choice.

It connects quite well with what Hemi said about obedience. For me, this is not a threat to my religious principles, just even more evidence that Heavenly Father is in control, since even these most basic of particles have the choice to obey or not.

[newlight]

Have you all heard of Dr Masaru Emotos experiments with water?

He claims that water may have some level of intelligence. In his research he subjects water to different emotions and to different types of music then freezes it. He then photographs each drop and they all display different snowflake effects. ..the water that that was exposed to classical music..there is a beautiful snoflake. With Metalic Rock there is a odd and ugly looking shaped snoflake.

Here is his website:

Hadolife

I searched on different blogs and forums and it seems as if he has been highly critized amongst the scientific community.(wouldnt expect less from them) According to what i've read he has even taken down photographs and his research information because of the criticism.

Masaru Emoto - Water Experiments Text - Physics Forums Library

[newlight]

I dont have access to youtube here at work but there are some videos on there to this regard even some interviews.

[Hemidakota]

All life, from what is perceive as basic intelligence, an Atom, to the most complex life form, is intelligence. We assume to much with today science in explaining away precious truths.